2021 OKC Blue Season Thread

Post #41 » by **ThunderBolt** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm

retrobro90 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This one was unquestionably intentional and he definitely tried to keep the above one in play too. Everyone here entitled to their opinion but it'd be nice to see more positivity about a 19 year old whose confidence and game are continuing to grow before our eyes. Kid has a chance to be one of our best players someday.

In my head I know these guys need years to develop but when I watch them game after game, its hard not to develop opinions, good or bad.

Post #42 » by **retrobro90** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:48 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This one was unquestionably intentional and he definitely tried to keep the above one in play too. Everyone here entitled to their opinion but it'd be nice to see more positivity about a 19 year old whose confidence and game are continuing to grow before our eyes. Kid has a chance to be one of our best players someday.

In my head I know these guys need years to develop but when I watch them game after game, its hard not to develop opinions, good or bad.

Yeah I guess I just meant that in a general sense about morale/positivity but re-reading it kinda sounds passive aggressive/subtweety. I just think Poku and his flashes are deserving of props and dont always need to be viewed through Nate Duncan-esque grouch glasses.

mr570 · Post #43 » by **mr570** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:58 pm

retrobro90 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This one was unquestionably intentional and he definitely tried to keep the above one in play too. Everyone here entitled to their opinion but it'd be nice to see more positivity about a 19 year old whose confidence and game are continuing to grow before our eyes. Kid has a chance to be one of our best players someday.

Poku is awesome and anyone poo-poo'ing him at this point is just entitled. But that's how our society is shaped. Instant gratification, success, etc. or it's not worth the time and effort. Problem is, all that time and effort is how you become great. Looking forward to what Poku looks like in a year!

Post #44 » by **retrobro90** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:17 pm

mr570 wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This one was unquestionably intentional and he definitely tried to keep the above one in play too. Everyone here entitled to their opinion but it'd be nice to see more positivity about a 19 year old whose confidence and game are continuing to grow before our eyes. Kid has a chance to be one of our best players someday.

Poku is awesome and anyone poo-poo'ing him at this point is just entitled. But that's how our society is shaped. Instant gratification, success, etc. or it's not worth the time and effort. Problem is, all that time and effort is how you become great. Looking forward to what Poku looks like in a year!

Was listening to Royce/Schlect today and I'm sure we all have our opinions about the analysis of those guys but I thought they were so off base (and oddly dismissive) talking about Bazley/Poku as if they're finished products at 19 and 20 years old. They kind of resort to this "Ehhh I guess he needs more opportunities with the ball in his hands" when both Bazley and Poku are currently getting a ton of those (rightly so) but the actual results haven't caught up. It's just not a sexy answer to say "These guys aren't producing in an effective/efficient way with their currently overcrowded plate of responsibility. Hopefully they will be much better through practice and repetition". Patience is a real thing with young players and I think OKC's done a great job getting everyone the right kinds of reps for their development this year.

Post #45 » by **retrobro90** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:29 pm

Gonna give some love to Moses Brown too who's made some serious strides with his hands and his defensive IQ. Would love if he got more burn with the big boys after the bubble is over.

Post #46 » by **ThunderBolt** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:50 pm

retrobro90 wrote:Gonna give some love to Moses Brown too who's made some serious strides with his hands and his defensive IQ. Would love if he got more burn with the big boys after the bubble is over.

I haven't watched much G-league stuff. Does he have more skill than Dakari Johnson?

Post #47 » by **retrobro90** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:05 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:Gonna give some love to Moses Brown too who's made some serious strides with his hands and his defensive IQ. Would love if he got more burn with the big boys after the bubble is over.

I haven't watched much G-league stuff. Does he have more skill than Dakari Johnson?

No lol but I never thought lack of skill was Dakari's problem. Dakari had a pretty nice mid range J and decent passing instincts but was pretty slow guarding in space/pnr/not a shot blocker/not a 3pt threat. Brown is way better as a vertical spacer/dive guy and in terms of his mobility/length. He doesn't need a whole lot of skill to be effective in his role but he's still making an occasional pass to the corner off the short roll. Mostly just like how good his hands have gotten from where they were and how good his instincts are now tagging the roll man or switching out when the play calls for it. He's also 7'2" and shares the floor a lot with Poku. They've got this insane PnR chemistry that looks like a game of keep away. Reminds me of when Nola would go 5/4 PnR with Cousins as the ball handler and Davis as the roller.

mr570 · Post #48 » by **mr570** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:14 am

retrobro90 wrote:
mr570 wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This one was unquestionably intentional and he definitely tried to keep the above one in play too. Everyone here entitled to their opinion but it'd be nice to see more positivity about a 19 year old whose confidence and game are continuing to grow before our eyes. Kid has a chance to be one of our best players someday.

Poku is awesome and anyone poo-poo'ing him at this point is just entitled. But that's how our society is shaped. Instant gratification, success, etc. or it's not worth the time and effort. Problem is, all that time and effort is how you become great. Looking forward to what Poku looks like in a year!

Was listening to Royce/Schlect today and I'm sure we all have our opinions about the analysis of those guys but I thought they were so off base (and oddly dismissive) talking about Bazley/Poku as if they're finished products at 19 and 20 years old. They kind of resort to this "Ehhh I guess he needs more opportunities with the ball in his hands" when both Bazley and Poku are currently getting a ton of those (rightly so) but the actual results haven't caught up. It's just not a sexy answer to say "These guys aren't producing in an effective/efficient way with their currently overcrowded plate of responsibility. Hopefully they will be much better through practice and repetition". Patience is a real thing with young players and I think OKC's done a great job getting everyone the right kinds of reps for their development this year.

Miky Berra's perspective on Bazley was much better. And I even remember when Andrew Schlecht said on the pod he was not optimistic about Poku taking the step down. Well okay if you want to view that the way that you do that's fine. I just think it's forgetting a lot of things that go into being great other than just *being great* in the first place. OKC had three of those guys already. Now we've got to cultivate that.

jake_swivel · Post #49 » by **jake_swivel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:41 am

mr570 wrote:Poku is awesome and anyone poo-poo'ing him at this point is just entitled. But that's how our society is shaped. Instant gratification, success, etc. or it's not worth the time and effort. Problem is, all that time and effort is how you become great. Looking forward to what Poku looks like in a year!

Poku had a negative PER the majority of his time with the thunder and shot under 10% through the first ten games. Until the last g-league game, he was shooting 20% in the g-league.

You and I have a way different opinion on what the word “awesome” means.

Positivity is a great character trait. But some circumstances don’t justify it, and so far, poku has given few reasons to be positive.

mr570 · Post #50 » by **mr570** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:26 am

jake_swivel wrote:
mr570 wrote:Poku is awesome and anyone poo-poo'ing him at this point is just entitled. But that's how our society is shaped. Instant gratification, success, etc. or it's not worth the time and effort. Problem is, all that time and effort is how you become great. Looking forward to what Poku looks like in a year!

Poku had a negative PER the majority of his time with the thunder and shot under 10% through the first ten games. Until the last g-league game, he was shooting 20% in the g-league.

You and I have a way different opinion on what the word “awesome” means.

Positivity is a great character trait. But some circumstances don’t justify it, and so far, poku has given few reasons to be positive.

It's not even being positive, man. You're judging him by standards that you judge NBA players by. Poku is not an NBA player yet. After a couple of years, pull out PER :roll:

jake_swivel · Post #51 » by **jake_swivel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 am

mr570 wrote:It's not even being positive, man. You're judging him by standards that you judge NBA players by. Poku is not an NBA player yet. After a couple of years, pull out PER

Not a trick question. Who are the players who have looked as bad as poku has and then ended up being good? Give me some hope. I won’t argue the validity of the comparisons. I’m just having a hard time remembering players that looked like absolute disasters (which he absolutely has up to this point outside the last g-league game highlights), and then ended up being very good players.

mr570 · Post #52 » by **mr570** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:10 am

jake_swivel wrote:
mr570 wrote:It's not even being positive, man. You're judging him by standards that you judge NBA players by. Poku is not an NBA player yet. After a couple of years, pull out PER

Not a trick question. Who are the players who have looked as bad as poku has and then ended up being good? Give me some hope. I won’t argue the validity of the comparisons. I’m just having a hard time remembering players that looked like absolute disasters (which he absolutely has up to this point outside the last g-league game highlights), and then ended up being very good players.

You go from PER to histrionics at the drop of a hat. It''s hard to take you seriously wrt Poku.

jake_swivel · Post #53 » by **jake_swivel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:15 am

mr570 wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
mr570 wrote:It's not even being positive, man. You're judging him by standards that you judge NBA players by. Poku is not an NBA player yet. After a couple of years, pull out PER

Not a trick question. Who are the players who have looked as bad as poku has and then ended up being good? Give me some hope. I won’t argue the validity of the comparisons. I’m just having a hard time remembering players that looked like absolute disasters (which he absolutely has up to this point outside the last g-league game highlights), and then ended up being very good players.

You go from PER to histrionics at the drop of a hat. It''s hard to take you seriously wrt Poku.

I mean, ok. But it feels like you didn’t answer my question.

mr570 · Post #54 » by **mr570** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:26 am

jake_swivel wrote:
mr570 wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
Not a trick question. Who are the players who have looked as bad as poku has and then ended up being good? Give me some hope. I won’t argue the validity of the comparisons. I’m just having a hard time remembering players that looked like absolute disasters (which he absolutely has up to this point outside the last g-league game highlights), and then ended up being very good players.

You go from PER to histrionics at the drop of a hat. It''s hard to take you seriously wrt Poku.

I mean, ok. But it feels like you didn’t answer my question.

I don't answer bad questions.

"Tell me who has looked as bad as Poku who ended up being a good player?" is not a good question. For one, that's an exhausting undertaking even if I wanted to try it, which I don't. But you're trying to get me to prove something that I never said. I never said he's going to be good. I said it's too early to make any judgement either way.

jake_swivel · Post #55 » by **jake_swivel** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:36 am

mr570 wrote: For one, that's an exhausting undertaking even if I wanted to try it, which I don't.

That’s a fair point. I just thought you might be able to list some I’ve missed off the top of your head.

mr570 wrote: But you're trying to get me to prove something that I never said. I never said he's going to be good. I said it's too early to make any judgement either way.

No, I was trying to have some hope for poku. I’m a thunder fan. I want him to succeed and am having a hard time thinking of examples that start like he has and then end up being good. I know it’s the internet and assuming bad intentions is a safe bet, but that’s not where I was going.

Post #56 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:03 am

jake_swivel wrote:
mr570 wrote: For one, that's an exhausting undertaking even if I wanted to try it, which I don't.

That’s a fair point. I just thought you might be able to list some I’ve missed off the top of your head.

mr570 wrote: But you're trying to get me to prove something that I never said. I never said he's going to be good. I said it's too early to make any judgement either way.

No, I was trying to have some hope for poku. I’m a thunder fan. I want him to succeed and am having a hard time thinking of examples that start like he has and then end up being good. I know it’s the internet and assuming bad intentions is a safe bet, but that’s not where I was going.

Dirk shot 20% from three his first year. I can’t remember the podcast (Hollinger and Duncan?) but they were comparing Poku’s rookie season to Dirks and talking about how Donnie Nelson almost got fired over the pick. Dirk’s numbers weren’t as bad but he had some similar struggles adjusting.

thedoppelganger · Post #57 » by **thedoppelganger** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:58 pm

!!! Poku made FT alert, and it came from a drive !!!

jake_swivel · Post #58 » by **jake_swivel** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:16 pm

Are g-league teams just crazy small? How is Moses brown consistently putting up 20/15? Looks like he was at 14/7 last year in the g-league.

thedoppelganger · Post #59 » by **thedoppelganger** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:04 pm

jake_swivel wrote:Are g-league teams just crazy small? How is Moses brown consistently putting up 20/15? Looks like he was at 14/7 last year in the g-league.

Yea most teams have at most 1 'traditional' center, with a number of those being in the 6'8-6'9 range, so Moses just has a huge height/reach advantage. He has a few possessions a game where he'll rack up 3-4 consecutive rebounds off his own misses and keeping the ball alive.

We also run 4 out/1 in with Poku and Moses at the 4/5 quite a bit, which gives Moses a lot of room to operate for OREB and he does have a pretty good read on those for a guy his size.

Post #60 » by **retrobro90** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:09 pm

jake_swivel wrote:Are g-league teams just crazy small? How is Moses brown consistently putting up 20/15? Looks like he was at 14/7 last year in the g-league.

It's the result of a few things, I think:

1. Brown has improved as a player. Doesn't look like a complete blank canvas of physical tools. Starting to put together good skills on both sides of the ball with good flashes of feel/timing.

2. The G league is a bit smaller on a night to night basis in terms of his individual matchups though holistically NBA teams are doing a much better job at protecting the paint/rim/pnr than G league teams are. It's not as though Brown is frequently catching in the mid-post to iso against his matchup at the 5 and just shooting over the top. G league matchups are truly having a tough time competing with his mobility/size combination and there's not many G league defenses that can hedge between Moses and whoever is handling the ball for OKC.

3. Moses is the Blue's premier player thus far. Cleveland has also been awesome but it's clear Moses is meant to be featured and given his touches on offense. Even down the stretch in half court sets they run a lot of PnR to try and get him a catch. The shots are going to be there for him to inflate his scoring but he's justified that decision by the coaching staff. He's produced and delivered since he's gotten that responsibility.

I thought today he was a bit undisciplined on defense compared to the previous week or so. Surprised to see he only had 3 fouls because it looked like he wanted to swat everything. I still hope he gets a guarantee at some point. Again the size/mobility really really pop and he doesn't have a lot to learn to be really good in his role at the NBA level.