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So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

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What is the pivot now that Harden is gone? Votes can be changed

Beal
32
33%
Lavine
24
25%
Smaller moves around the edges
41
42%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1241 » by youngcrev » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:34 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
stormi wrote:Milton, Harris and Seth Curry (the guys we want to shoot) had wide open looks all night



But therein lacks the huge problem. With Green too they are non threatening once covered and non elite shooters overall, Curry maybe the exception but he needs setup time can’t buy that. Lillard/Doncic leaves acres of gravity/space around them to fire away.

They peed themselves because Raptors have length, speed and are disclipined. That 4 group is a non scoring/ballhandling/passing threat too, add in Howard/Thybulle who are massive net negative offensive players. You need a Booker type at the very least to offset all of them. Ball movement gets bogged down so much when Ben sits.

Vanvleet, Lowry, Powell, Davis can all function by themselves, 2 aren’t elite but they don’t have to be because they are not totaly dependent on perfect/ideal spots. All 4 can score/shoot/pass/handle/playmake all at varying degrees. Basically what a well rounded guard looks like.


While I get your underlying point that you want guards that can do more (everyone is on that same page btw, you don't need to harp on it every post as though someone is disagreeing with the notion)... That's not a good take on what happened in this particular game IMO.

21 of the Sixers 3 point attempts classified as statistically wide open (no defender within 6 feet of them). They shot 19% on those attempts.

12 were open (4-6 feet) and they shot 33% on those ones.

The Raptors are very good at scrambling to shooters out of double teams, but constantly playing that way still leads to giving up a ton of high quality shots.

The Sixers just didn't make them pay for it in this one. They didn't "pee themselves" because they didn't know how to combat the defense. They got a lot of good shots that just didn't fall.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1242 » by spikeslovechild » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:45 pm

kriss73 wrote:You have to start thinking that Lowry couldn't be back in Toronto next year, so maybe it's the best interest in the Raptors try to gert something from him.

In my opinion could be a three team deal with the Cavs.
Something on the line of Lowry to Philly , Drummond and assets (?) to Toronto and expirings/assets to Cleveland



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Raps could be giving him away and I'd want nothing to do with him.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1243 » by Negrodamus » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:56 pm

spikeslovechild wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Warriors waited too long to trade Draymond. Now they are going to get scraps for him.


His contract has massive negative value who would trade anything for him at this point?


Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1244 » by 76ciology » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:16 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Warriors waited too long to trade Draymond. Now they are going to get scraps for him.


His contract has massive negative value who would trade anything for him at this point?


Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.


Green?

Any team with a good twin combo guard duo (rising trend).

Blazers?
Bulls?
Suns?

Hornets would also be good.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1245 » by youngcrev » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:22 pm

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
His contract has massive negative value who would trade anything for him at this point?


Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.


Green?

Any team with a good twin combo guard duo (rising trend).

Blazers?
Bulls?
Suns?

Hornets would also be good.


Draymond on the Blazers would be interesting, though they kinda use Nurkic in a similar way offensively on the rare occasion that he's healthy.

Did I miss something where the Warriors are trying to move him though? I know about the ejection the other night, but was there something beyond that?
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1246 » by 76ciology » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:25 pm

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.


Green?

Any team with a good twin combo guard duo (rising trend).

Blazers?
Bulls?
Suns?

Hornets would also be good.


Draymond on the Blazers would be interesting, though they kinda use Nurkic in a similar way offensively on the rare occasion that he's healthy.

Did I miss something where the Warriors are trying to move him though? I know about the ejection the other night, but was there something beyond that?


With the Blazers. Nurkic can be like how Bogut played for the Warriors back then.

I dont know whAts the news with him. Have not been following the news recently.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1247 » by Sixerscan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:28 pm

youngcrev wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
stormi wrote:Milton, Harris and Seth Curry (the guys we want to shoot) had wide open looks all night



But therein lacks the huge problem. With Green too they are non threatening once covered and non elite shooters overall, Curry maybe the exception but he needs setup time can’t buy that. Lillard/Doncic leaves acres of gravity/space around them to fire away.

They peed themselves because Raptors have length, speed and are disclipined. That 4 group is a non scoring/ballhandling/passing threat too, add in Howard/Thybulle who are massive net negative offensive players. You need a Booker type at the very least to offset all of them. Ball movement gets bogged down so much when Ben sits.

Vanvleet, Lowry, Powell, Davis can all function by themselves, 2 aren’t elite but they don’t have to be because they are not totaly dependent on perfect/ideal spots. All 4 can score/shoot/pass/handle/playmake all at varying degrees. Basically what a well rounded guard looks like.


While I get your underlying point that you want guards that can do more (everyone is on that same page btw, you don't need to harp on it every post as though someone is disagreeing with the notion)... That's not a good take on what happened in this particular game IMO.

21 of the Sixers 3 point attempts classified as statistically wide open (no defender within 6 feet of them). They shot 19% on those attempts.

12 were open (4-6 feet) and they shot 33% on those ones.

The Raptors are very good at scrambling to shooters out of double teams, but constantly doing still leads to giving up a ton of high shots.

The Sixers just didn't make them pay for it in this one. They didn't "pee themselves" because they didn't know how to combat the defense. They got a lot of good shots that just didn't fall.


Yes lol. Sometimes I wonder if I were to go to like the Chicago board or something I would see people saying “look at everything Embiid does, Wendell Carter can’t do that.”

It just seems pretty obvious that Morey’s goal was to increase the team’s flexibility to allow them to make more trades down the road. Do people really think Morey is just like “ok I dumped some salary, traded for some role players on good contracts, drafted some rookies with later picks and signed a backup center for the minimum, my work here is done, go win the title now Doc”?

Clearly they have to make some moves to upgrade those spots, presumably it will happen by the trade deadline but that’s a month away and assumes that an actual reasonable trade is available. Like it’s easy to say you want an upgrade but what if someone demands the Tobias trade package for a Tobias level player again? What if it’s a Harden level package for a Tobias level player?
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1248 » by Negrodamus » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:38 pm

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.


Green?

Any team with a good twin combo guard duo (rising trend).

Blazers?
Bulls?
Suns?

Hornets would also be good.


Draymond on the Blazers would be interesting, though they kinda use Nurkic in a similar way offensively on the rare occasion that he's healthy.

Did I miss something where the Warriors are trying to move him though? I know about the ejection the other night, but was there something beyond that?


It was more of an observation since the narrative following the ejection was that the Warriors are getting tired of his ****. I think they should have moved him when they had Durant. Now he's playing like crap, has a big contract, and is a vocal distraction.

I imagine they'll just hold onto him since they will likely compete next year with Klay back and will want high level role players like him around. I think he's a pain in the ass though and would look to move him if I'm the Warriors.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1249 » by stormi » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:40 pm

OT: I really really think the Blazers should push for a superstar to pair with Dame. If someone like KAT said 'thanks Minnesota, but I want to try and win' the Blazers should be the first team calling and putting a magnum opus package on the table.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1250 » by kriss73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:19 pm

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1251 » by spikeslovechild » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:29 pm

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
His contract has massive negative value who would trade anything for him at this point?


Ironically, I could see the Hornets being an option. Heat would also be an interesting option since they are all in on this Butler experience and value defense.

I'm not a Green fan, but there's undeniable talent and certain teams could be interested in a reclamation project for cheap assets.

Iguodala, Meyers Leonard, and KZ Okpala for Draymond would do it. Two meh 2 year contracts and a longshot prospect for Draymond.


Green?

Any team with a good twin combo guard duo (rising trend).

Blazers?
Bulls?
Suns?

Hornets would also be good.


There are teams for that could use him for maybe the MLE but 25 aav? No sir

The other thing no-one really mentions beyond the shooting collapse is his defense impact isn't what it once was either. Also honestly him having the ball in his hands if you have guards who can already handle the ball is a net negative. I'd rather have dame with the dribble he does nothing for them
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1252 » by DCasey91 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:30 pm

Desmond Bane would have been handy same with Pritchard. Jalen Brunson interest anyone?
I wouldn’t mind Trey Burke back. Though he never got a real go at it here. He can score, shoot, and his man on man defense isn’t that bad at all.

Like Gordon/Tucker but that contract is a big no unless we dump Harris and get a pick back? Maybe interesting, interesting. and we can’t bring in Tucker as we can’t have another huge net negative offensive player.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1253 » by spikeslovechild » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:40 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Desmond Bane would have been handy same with Pritchard. Jalen Brunson interest anyone?
I wouldn’t mind Trey Burke back. Though he never got a real go at it here. He can score, shoot, and his man on man defense isn’t that bad at all.

Like Gordon/Tucker but that contract is a big no unless we dump Harris and get a pick back? Maybe interesting, interesting. and we can’t bring in Tucker as we can’t have another huge net negative offensive player.


We need impact bench guys not more scrubs.

Also trading for Gordon and Tucker would be a step back from floor spacing perspective because Gordon if he started would be taking Curry minutes and Tucker isn't near as good either as a floor spacer or offensively as Tobias has been

People need to stop putting Tobias in trades for scrubs and pretending we get better. He is a 20 ppg 4 who is playing extremely efficiently those are hard to find and really the only way we get better is if we are trading for a superstar which is why contending teams rarely move these guys because its almost impossible to get better while doing so. Like I am sure the Bucks would love to move Middleton for a legit 2nd star but it isn't happening.

If the fit wasn't ideal then maybe it makes sense to trade Tobias and even take a loss of talent but why would we? He is a decent 3pt shooter has some ball handling ability and helps take some pressure off Embiid with his midrange game what this team needs is to either move Simmons for a legit star like Beal or get an upgrade over Curry.

I mean the dream scenario would to be move Simmons for Beal and trade for Lonzo. It would solve every floor spacing issue this team has and would give us two stars who can actually complement each other on the court. Unfornately Simmons is a hard player to build a team around which is one of the reasons why rockets had so little interest
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1254 » by DCasey91 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 pm

spikeslovechild wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Desmond Bane would have been handy same with Pritchard. Jalen Brunson interest anyone?
I wouldn’t mind Trey Burke back. Though he never got a real go at it here. He can score, shoot, and his man on man defense isn’t that bad at all.

Like Gordon/Tucker but that contract is a big no unless we dump Harris and get a pick back? Maybe interesting, interesting. and we can’t bring in Tucker as we can’t have another huge net negative offensive player.


We need impact bench guys not more scrubs.

Also trading for Gordon and Tucker would be a step back from floor spacing perspective because Gordon if he started would be taking Curry minutes and Tucker isn't near as good either as a floor spacer or offensively as Tobias has been

People need to stop putting Tobias in trades for scrubs and pretending we get better. He is a 20 ppg 4 who is playing extremely efficiently those are hard to find and really the only way we get better is if we are trading for a superstar which is why contending teams rarely move these guys because its almost impossible to get better while doing so. Like I am sure the Bucks would love to move Middleton for a legit 2nd star but it isn't happening.

If the fit wasn't ideal then maybe it makes sense to trade Tobias and even take a loss of talent but why would we? He is a decent 3pt shooter has some ball handling ability and helps take some pressure off Embiid with his midrange game what this team needs is to either move Simmons for a legit star like Beal or get an upgrade over Curry.

I mean the dream scenario would to be move Simmons for Beal and trade for Lonzo. It would solve every floor spacing issue this team has and would give us two stars who can actually complement each other on the court. Unfornately Simmons is a hard player to build a team around which is one of the reasons why rockets had so little interest



Wait Brunson ain’t a scrub. Our bench is full of scrubs atm.

The loss is there because of his overpaid contract. Besides I much prefer Derozan at least your’e getting something of quality in return and I dont rate Harris at all for this team.

The Beal/Lonzo scenario I can get behind. The idea makes perfect sense.

I’d disagree about the Rockets thing. It was a leverage play and the rockets GM is an idiot for not taking the deal. Oladipo is not resigning. You get a top 20ish player in Ben moving forward on a longer term salary. The owner probably won’t end up with much to show for it.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1255 » by kriss73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:42 pm

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I think Masai should pay us to keep Lowry out from his team LOL
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1256 » by sixers4real » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:23 am

If Morey can land us Fournier using all expirings + unprotected FRP, we can have that type of team this year and resign both Green and Fournier in the summer

C - Embiid / Howard / FA
F - Harris / Buy-out / Reed
F - Green / Thybulle / Joe
G - Fournier / Curry / Joe
G - Simmons / Milton / Maxey
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1257 » by Stanford » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:10 pm

Everyone wants to give away our first round picks for mediocre dudes who won't help us in the playoffs.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1258 » by sixers4real » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:35 pm

Stanford wrote:Everyone wants to give away our first round picks for mediocre dudes who won't help us in the playoffs.

Fournier is a mediocre dude? Who’s a better scoring option available on the market?
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1259 » by eyeatoma » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:37 pm

sixers4real wrote:
Stanford wrote:Everyone wants to give away our first round picks for mediocre dudes who won't help us in the playoffs.

Fournier is a mediocre dude? Who’s a better scoring option available on the market?
Who said he was available?

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#1260 » by sixers4real » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:45 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
sixers4real wrote:
Stanford wrote:Everyone wants to give away our first round picks for mediocre dudes who won't help us in the playoffs.

Fournier is a mediocre dude? Who’s a better scoring option available on the market?
Who said he was available?

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He might be, if we offer 2021 FRP and 2022 swap with expirings.
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