Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[DCZards]

The Celts reportedly want a go-to scorer off the bench who is capable of creating their offense. That's not Bertans. So, while I'd love to see Robert Williams in a Zards uni, I doubt that Boston would consider a Robert Williams for Davis. (I agree with Ruz that Boston probably sees Williams as a core piece of their future, despite the fact that he's not playing as many minutes as Theis and Thompson.)

The Celts might consider trading other pieces, like Nesmith, Ojeleye and/or Grant Williams, for Bertans.

[Ruzious]

The Celts reportedly want a go-to scorer off the bench who is capable of creating their offense. That's not Bertans. So, while I'd love to see Robert Williams in a Zards uni, I doubt that Boston would consider a Robert Williams for Davis. (I agree with Ruz that Boston probably sees Williams as a core piece of their future, despite the fact that he's not playing as many minutes as Theis and Thompson.)

The Celts might consider trading other pieces, like Nesmith, Ojeleye and/or Grant Williams, for Bertans.

I think this quote from Ainge would include Bertans:

"I think we need to surround (Brown and Tatum) with more scoring. We need more dynamic talent off the bench. We need guys who won't be subservient to them, but guys who will complement them."

[Ruzious]

Right, I just don't think they want to trade Williams. Granted, they don't start him, but I think they see him as their starting center of the future.

Maybe so, but they are a total mess right now. Ainge&Stevens are on the way out. The team is seriously underperforming. They made huge mistakes on the Thompson&Kemba deals. It’s not a situation that is all that dissimilar to our own actually. There is no doubt that they will be trading assets at the deadline for immediate help. We might be a good match, and Bertans is exactly what they are looking for. I would ask for that 1st round pick if Williams is off the table.

For Boston, it’s either Stevens&Ainge are gone, and they have to attach assets to Kemba to move him in the off-season and punt on this year, or desperate win now moves from Ainge to try and salvage this season and his job.

Imagine if Boston loses to Brooklyn in the first round of the playoffs... losing to Kyrie - who was such a spectacular failure in Boston... Ainge can't let that happen.

[nate33]

A few things actually.
#1 It gets us under the tax enough to make use of our trade exceptions(1.6,1.6,1.0), DPE (4.1) and the buy out market. That dpe that I think we are granted for bryant is important because a lot of teams can't offer more than vet mins to buy out guys.
#2 upgrades. we get to rid our team of robinson (Buy out) and upgrade him with Nesmith, Ive liked Aaron Nesmith for a long time. Grant Williams is a smidge better than gill and he's 22 not 28.
#3 we get out from under Bertans money moving forward.
#4 we get more burn for guys like deni and Rui, who I believe can replace Bertans if given the chance.
#5 a possible second round pick. Which is always nice! I didn't put a year on it cuz they celtics have a few extras and it doesn't really matter.
#6 teague while washed as he may be is just cap filler and a place holder a cut candidate

Not sure if we could get a first but this makes sense
Boston : Bertans
WIZ: Grant Williams (not the same williams mentioned in posts above), Jeff teague, Aaron Nesmith and a future second. (The second is negotiable but also probably seems fair, it's a maybe).

This works for both teams

I don't see how this works for us. What is our motivation?

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So you dump our 3rd best player to upgrade our 14th and 15th man a slight bit? And maybe hope to pick up a 2nd round pick in the process? That is not compelling at all.

[DCZards]

The Celts reportedly want a go-to scorer off the bench who is capable of creating their offense. That's not Bertans. So, while I'd love to see Robert Williams in a Zards uni, I doubt that Boston would consider a Robert Williams for Davis. (I agree with Ruz that Boston probably sees Williams as a core piece of their future, despite the fact that he's not playing as many minutes as Theis and Thompson.)

The Celts might consider trading other pieces, like Nesmith, Ojeleye and/or Grant Williams, for Bertans.

I think this quote from Ainge would include Bertans:

"I think we need to surround (Brown and Tatum) with more scoring. We need more dynamic talent off the bench. We need guys who won't be subservient to them, but guys who will complement them."

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

Ainge said he’s looking for someone who plays with a “swagger.” I don’t see that as being Bertans as well.

I may be wrong about this...but that's the conclusion I com to when I read between the lines.

[nate33]

Ainge said he’s looking for someone who plays with a “swagger.” I don’t see that as being Bertans as well.

I do. Dude has unlimited courage to go with his unlimited range.

[Ruzious]

The Celts reportedly want a go-to scorer off the bench who is capable of creating their offense. That's not Bertans. So, while I'd love to see Robert Williams in a Zards uni, I doubt that Boston would consider a Robert Williams for Davis. (I agree with Ruz that Boston probably sees Williams as a core piece of their future, despite the fact that he's not playing as many minutes as Theis and Thompson.)

The Celts might consider trading other pieces, like Nesmith, Ojeleye and/or Grant Williams, for Bertans.

I think this quote from Ainge would include Bertans:

"I think we need to surround (Brown and Tatum) with more scoring. We need more dynamic talent off the bench. We need guys who won't be subservient to them, but guys who will complement them."

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

Ainge said he’s looking for someone who plays with a “swagger.” I don’t see that as being Bertans as well.

I think perhaps you're conflating athleticism with talent. Bertans 3 point shot is a dynamic talent, and it certainly would complement Brown and Tatum.

[DCZards]

Ainge said he’s looking for someone who plays with a “swagger.” I don’t see that as being Bertans as well.

I do. Dude has unlimited courage to go with his unlimited range.

There's a difference between being a good long range shooter and playing with "swagger," imo.

[NatP4]

Bertans is a perfect fit for them. The guy isn’t afraid to take any shot. Unlimited range, can make contested shots and take over games entirely. 19 points on 63% TS last year. Any contending team would love to have him.

I think we are way too down on Bertans on this board. Outside of about 5 games at the beginning of the season and 3 games after the covid stoppage, he has been his normal self. He also has the 3rd best on/off numbers on the team.

[gambitx777]

So grant maybe be an end of the bench guy and teague is borderline done. But Nesmith, he was a lotory pick last year and can't get playing time behind two all star wings, not his fault. He showed some really good stuff in college the makings of a good 3/D guy decent SG rebounder, potential good 3pt shooter with range. He's got a lot of potential. And yeah I like second round picks. Bertans being the third beat player on the team is debatable at best and also his contract is pretty large if we can trade him out for a prospect like Nesmith and a pick. I'd do it. Bertans hasn't been essential to the little bit of success we had so far anyway. And it give us more flexibility moving in to buy out season were a guy like drummand could be a game changer for us.

A few things actually.
#1 It gets us under the tax enough to make use of our trade exceptions(1.6,1.6,1.0), DPE (4.1) and the buy out market. That dpe that I think we are granted for bryant is important because a lot of teams can't offer more than vet mins to buy out guys.
#2 upgrades. we get to rid our team of robinson (Buy out) and upgrade him with Nesmith, Ive liked Aaron Nesmith for a long time. Grant Williams is a smidge better than gill and he's 22 not 28.
#3 we get out from under Bertans money moving forward.
#4 we get more burn for guys like deni and Rui, who I believe can replace Bertans if given the chance.
#5 a possible second round pick. Which is always nice! I didn't put a year on it cuz they celtics have a few extras and it doesn't really matter.
#6 teague while washed as he may be is just cap filler and a place holder a cut candidate

I don't see how this works for us. What is our motivation?

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So you dump our 3rd best player to upgrade our 14th and 15th man a slight bit? And maybe hope to pick up a 2nd round pick in the process? That is not compelling at all.

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[nate33]

"I think we need to surround (Brown and Tatum) with more scoring. We need more dynamic talent off the bench. We need guys who won't be subservient to them, but guys who will complement them."

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

What kind of "dynamic scorer" do you think Ainge can get with just the TPE? He's not getting someone like Bradley Beal, that's for damn sure - or any other two-way player with above average offense. He's going to get a instant offense guy who can't defend - a Lou Williams type, and that guy won't help him in the playoffs because he'll be playing Kemba, Tatum and Brown 40 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It would be better to get a guy who can play alongside those guys - someone way better than Ojeleye. Bertans is perfect.

[DCZards]

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

What kind of "dynamic scorer" do you think Ainge can get with just the TPE? He's not getting someone like Bradley Beal, that's for damn sure - or any other two-way player with above average offense. He's going to get a instant offense guy who can't defend - a Lou Williams type, and that guy won't help him in the playoffs because he'll be playing Kemba, Tatum and Brown 40 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It would be better to get a guy who can play alongside those guys - someone way better than Ojeleye. Bertans is perfect.

From what I understand, the Celts are more interested in picking up someone who can come off the bench and create offense than someone to play alongside Brown and Tatum. The names I've heard floated are Harrison Barnes, Evan Fournier and Thaddeus Young.

[nate33]

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

What kind of "dynamic scorer" do you think Ainge can get with just the TPE? He's not getting someone like Bradley Beal, that's for damn sure - or any other two-way player with above average offense. He's going to get a instant offense guy who can't defend - a Lou Williams type, and that guy won't help him in the playoffs because he'll be playing Kemba, Tatum and Brown 40 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It would be better to get a guy who can play alongside those guys - someone way better than Ojeleye. Bertans is perfect.

From what I understand, the Celts are more interested in picking up someone who can come off the bench and create offense than someone to play alongside Brown and Tatum. The names I've heard floated are Harrison Barnes, Evan Fournier and Thaddeus Young.

Barnes and Fournier make sense, but will probably cost more than just the TPE. Maybe Ainge will include a future pick, I dunno.

Thad Young is a nice extra piece, but he seems like a "final piece" type of guy. By himself, I don't think he moves the needle much, but if he the second acquisition after another better player, he could help.

[Ruzious]

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

What kind of "dynamic scorer" do you think Ainge can get with just the TPE? He's not getting someone like Bradley Beal, that's for damn sure - or any other two-way player with above average offense. He's going to get a instant offense guy who can't defend - a Lou Williams type, and that guy won't help him in the playoffs because he'll be playing Kemba, Tatum and Brown 40 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It would be better to get a guy who can play alongside those guys - someone way better than Ojeleye. Bertans is perfect.

From what I understand, the Celts are more interested in picking up someone who can come off the bench and create offense than someone to play alongside Brown and Tatum. The names I've heard floated are Harrison Barnes, Evan Fournier and Thaddeus Young.

Even back at UNC, Barnes has never been a guy who creates his own offense and is not dynamic. And Young is strictly a PF who's even less creative - though having a fine season. Fournier would be the closest of the 3 to fitting that description - good player with a sour disposition - seems to really hate Beal.

[gambitx777]

I agree with Nate they don't have the ammo to get a game changer in this market. Best they can do is try and patch the wholes and hope kemba wakes up one day and remembers how to play, maybe Tatum and brown can take them home.

I disagree that that description includes Bertans. There is a difference between a scorer and a shooter...and Davis is strictly the latter. He’s also not what I think Ainge means when he says a “dynamic talent.”

What kind of "dynamic scorer" do you think Ainge can get with just the TPE? He's not getting someone like Bradley Beal, that's for damn sure - or any other two-way player with above average offense. He's going to get a instant offense guy who can't defend - a Lou Williams type, and that guy won't help him in the playoffs because he'll be playing Kemba, Tatum and Brown 40 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It would be better to get a guy who can play alongside those guys - someone way better than Ojeleye. Bertans is perfect.

From what I understand, the Celts are more interested in picking up someone who can come off the bench and create offense than someone to play alongside Brown and Tatum. The names I've heard floated are Harrison Barnes, Evan Fournier and Thaddeus Young.

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[badinage]

I read a rumor via Sam Amico — he didn’t report it; he commented on someone who did — that the Wizards are “monitoring” the Porzingis situation. FWIW. He also mentioned that league sources don’t believe KP will be traded anytime soon.

I bring this up not just because of that, but also because of something else he said, which was that he wouldn’t surrender Rui in a trade for KP — that he was “becoming quite the steal.”

(And just to contribute my own opinion to the Cock of the Walk-fest that this forum sometimes descends into, especially when it comes to picks and value and Rui: I kind of love Rui. Both what he is now and what he can be. I think Amico is right. I also am very, very happy to err on the side of loving too much and being burned. It’s happened many times before. It’s called fandom.)

[Ruzious]

I read a rumor via Sam Amico — he didn’t report it; he commented on someone who did — that the Wizards are “monitoring” the Porzingis situation. FWIW. He also mentioned that league sources don’t believe KP will be traded anytime soon.

I bring this up not just because of that, but also because of something else he said, which was that he wouldn’t surrender Rui in a trade for KP — that he was “becoming quite the steal.”

(And just to contribute my own opinion to the Cock of the Walk-fest that this forum sometimes descends into, especially when it comes to picks and value and Rui: I kind of love Rui. Both what he is now and what he can be. I think Amico is right. I also am very, very happy to err on the side of loving too much and being burned. It’s happened many times before. It’s called fandom.)

Fwiw, in the trade forum, there's a thread just for Porzingis trades. There's a whole lot of suggestions where fans are proposing trades where their team gets him for basically nothing. They're talking about him being injured and worthless. My post in that thread is basically - What is everyone talking about? His back injury is just a day to day thing, and he's having the best season of his career. There's no reason for Dallas to all of a sudden want to trade him.

[pcbothwel]

I read a rumor via Sam Amico — he didn’t report it; he commented on someone who did — that the Wizards are “monitoring” the Porzingis situation. FWIW. He also mentioned that league sources don’t believe KP will be traded anytime soon.

I bring this up not just because of that, but also because of something else he said, which was that he wouldn’t surrender Rui in a trade for KP — that he was “becoming quite the steal.”

(And just to contribute my own opinion to the Cock of the Walk-fest that this forum sometimes descends into, especially when it comes to picks and value and Rui: I kind of love Rui. Both what he is now and what he can be. I think Amico is right. I also am very, very happy to err on the side of loving too much and being burned. It’s happened many times before. It’s called fandom.)

Fwiw, in the trade forum, there's a thread just for Porzingis trades. There's a whole lot of suggestions where fans are proposing trades where their team gets him for basically nothing. They're talking about him being injured and worthless. My post in that thread is basically - What is everyone talking about? His back injury is just a day to day thing, and he's having the best season of his career. There's no reason for Dallas to all of a sudden want to trade him.

Ehhh... His efficiency is up because his midrange shots are falling. But some Mavs fans say he looks like a shell compared to his former self physically, especially defensively. His rebounding and blocks are down, while his FTr and and Steals have been cut in half. They may be seeing signs that he's breaking down and we've heard for a while that his work ethic/off court attitude isnt the best.

If thats the case, their are a number of ways in which they could move him and reload.
GSW: They are looking to make a run over the next 2-3 years and KP would be a great fit next to Draymond.
- Wiggins would be the main money piece, with Wiseman and/or Minny pick being the asset.
- Downside is the Dallas is certainly worse and they take on Wiggins contract. Probably too drastic

Heat: KP would add some size and I could see him working with Bam.
Dragic + KO would be the main money piece with Achuiwa being a solid asset.
I actually really love this trade. I think Dragic and KO are great fits and the team stays competitive. Wild card is both are expiring and Mavs would have 60M in cap space this summer to add some interesting players... Lowry/Conley with Otto/Derozan?

Does NOP make a move with Bledsoe, Hayes, Redick? Hornets with Zeller + Rozier? Maybe Portland?

There are a number of ways that the Mavs could move off KP and retool with better overall fit & symmetry.

[NatP4]

Looks like his defense has fallen off a cliff this season, which was basically the only value he provided. The money just doesn’t really work, but I have no doubt that the report is true and that the wizards front office is looking to buy not sell.

[Ruzious]

Looks like his defense has fallen off a cliff this season, which was basically the only value he provided. The money just doesn’t really work, but I have no doubt that the report is true and that the wizards front office is looking to buy not sell.

Fwiw, I've never considered him a good defender - just from the eye test. He's a very good athlete, but he's always been very soft and error-prone. And offensively, his stats are the best overall of his career.

Per 36, he's averaging 24.7 points and 9.9 rebounds, his shooting percentage and TS% are easily the best of his career. He's making 55% of his 2's and never before made 50%. And he's got the highest PER of his career AND the lowest turnover rate of his career - by far. He's producing more and doing it more efficiently. So, if Dallas liked him before, imo there's no reason for them to all of a sudden change their minds.