2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[bwgood77]

“What good does developing a 3 do” for a hyper athletic center who is an elite paint finisher on a team with great guards?

da real juice, just wow. Do you even basketball?

It's an opinion on a message board. Yes, he played college basketball. You don't need to antagonize every poster here.

[TouchPassDario]

I'd love to believe Ayton is still developing but he just seemed to have taken a step back offensively. I remember earlier in the year he mentioned watching some film of CP3 and DeAndre Jordan back with the Clippers so he can learn what angles DJ took to get good feeds from CP3. I thought that would be huge for his development, but instead I see Ayton hesitating rolling to the rim, hiding behind his defender, taking bad cuts, etc. It honestly looks like he is purposely putting himself in a position to not get the ball.

Here's a clip I posted to my Twitter, and I think could have changed the outcome of the game, had Ayton caught the ball. Easily at the very least 2 points, two FT's or maybe even an And1.

Read on Twitter

That pass was AWFUL. Look at all the context. Stop the video at :02: Book draws two guys to him and another Hornet is inside the restricted area to deter Ayton from catching and doing anything. The pass is a bullet, from a few feet away, and off target. Scrolling through to :01, and you can see Bismack has good coverage and has limited the angle for a bounce pass and also for any pass around Ayton’s reasonable catch radius given the speed of pass in tight quarters. It’s just a bad decision poorly executed by Book. Even if Ayton makes a miraculous catch he is about to charge into the restricted area defender. Given all these facts SOMEONE ELSE has to be open, and Book should have either found them or pulled it out. We lose games because of Book’s poor playmaking at times. He’s usually good, but sometimes (here) he blows it.

[TouchPassDario]

“What good does developing a 3 do” for a hyper athletic center who is an elite paint finisher on a team with great guards?

da real juice, just wow. Do you even basketball?

It's an opinion on a message board. Yes, he played college basketball. You don't need to antagonize every poster here.

Former player means ~nothing. Perk and Jalen and Pierce also played college basketball. Let the opinion rest on its own merits.

[TouchPassDario]

And I’m not gonna show any respect for someone that calls me a prick in this very thread. Let him apologize and make a good post for once and I’ll think about it.

[Qwigglez]

I'd love to believe Ayton is still developing but he just seemed to have taken a step back offensively. I remember earlier in the year he mentioned watching some film of CP3 and DeAndre Jordan back with the Clippers so he can learn what angles DJ took to get good feeds from CP3. I thought that would be huge for his development, but instead I see Ayton hesitating rolling to the rim, hiding behind his defender, taking bad cuts, etc. It honestly looks like he is purposely putting himself in a position to not get the ball.

Here's a clip I posted to my Twitter, and I think could have changed the outcome of the game, had Ayton caught the ball. Easily at the very least 2 points, two FT's or maybe even an And1.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

That pass was AWFUL. Look at all the context. Stop the video at :02: Book draws two guys to him and another Hornet is inside the restricted area to deter Ayton from catching and doing anything. The pass is a bullet, from a few feet away, and off target. Scrolling through to :01, and you can see Bismack has good coverage and has limited the angle for a bounce pass and also for any pass around Ayton’s reasonable catch radius given the speed of pass in tight quarters. It’s just a bad decision poorly executed by Book. Even if Ayton makes a miraculous catch he is about to charge into the restricted area defender. Given all these facts SOMEONE ELSE has to be open, and Book should have either found them or pulled it out. We lose games because of Book’s poor playmaking at times. He’s usually good, but sometimes (here) he blows it.

The pass is far from perfect, but two guys are on Book. Why isn't Ayton's hands up to anticipate the catch, why are his hands down? The ball wasn't even deflected or anything it just hit Ayton's fingers, should he not be expecting a pass in that scenario? Cam and Bridges were both in the corner being covered by one defender so no one was really open. CP3 should have rotated over to allow Cam to move over and then Bridges stays in the corner.

[TouchPassDario]

I will say this, Ayton’s decision to roll there seems more intended to be a decoy to the primary kick out option. If he doesn’t roll hard than the defender near the basket has more freedom to trap Book or help out on shooters. Ayton is doing EXACTLY what he should do as a decoy on the play: suck in defenders to create internal gravity for a kick out to a shooter. No clue at all why Book passed it to him there other than he couldn’t see the restricted area defender b/c Biyombo blocked his view.

[TouchPassDario]

I'd love to believe Ayton is still developing but he just seemed to have taken a step back offensively. I remember earlier in the year he mentioned watching some film of CP3 and DeAndre Jordan back with the Clippers so he can learn what angles DJ took to get good feeds from CP3. I thought that would be huge for his development, but instead I see Ayton hesitating rolling to the rim, hiding behind his defender, taking bad cuts, etc. It honestly looks like he is purposely putting himself in a position to not get the ball.

Here's a clip I posted to my Twitter, and I think could have changed the outcome of the game, had Ayton caught the ball. Easily at the very least 2 points, two FT's or maybe even an And1.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

That pass was AWFUL. Look at all the context. Stop the video at :02: Book draws two guys to him and another Hornet is inside the restricted area to deter Ayton from catching and doing anything. The pass is a bullet, from a few feet away, and off target. Scrolling through to :01, and you can see Bismack has good coverage and has limited the angle for a bounce pass and also for any pass around Ayton’s reasonable catch radius given the speed of pass in tight quarters. It’s just a bad decision poorly executed by Book. Even if Ayton makes a miraculous catch he is about to charge into the restricted area defender. Given all these facts SOMEONE ELSE has to be open, and Book should have either found them or pulled it out. We lose games because of Book’s poor playmaking at times. He’s usually good, but sometimes (here) he blows it.

The pass is far from perfect, but two guys are on Book. Why isn't Ayton's hands up to anticipate the catch, why are his hands down? The ball wasn't even deflected or anything it just hit Ayton's fingers, should he not be expecting a pass in that scenario? Cam and Bridges were both in the corner being covered by one defender so no one was really open. CP3 should have rotated over to allow Cam to move over and then Bridges stays in the corner.

Perfect. This is exactly what I mean when I say he was very likely the third or four option for this play. He sees the restricted area defender, notices the sharp angle Book takes and thinks, correctly, “no way Book passes it to me here, I’ll keep charging down to occupy the restricted area defender, look for an offensive board if Book shoots, and be prepared to gain rebounding position on a kick out to a shooter.”

[TouchPassDario]

I couldn’t see the other players, but if their spacing was poor they should have all relocated during Book’s drive to give him options, actual legitimate options, not Ayton literally in no man’s land with practically no prospect to be the primary scorer. He doesn’t even have room to execute a short roll kick out!

So, blame for the play goes to

1. Book
2. Perimeter options
3. Ayton

[TouchPassDario]

This is what makes Ayton so valuable to the offense: his internal gravity allows for penetrating guards to find open shooters as either primary options or to penetrate on secondary actions. The defense gets totally flummoxed and out of position. But the initial penetration has to be early enough in the clock to allow for play development if the defense condenses (as it usually does) in the paint.

I will say this, too: note WHERE on the court Ayton rolls FROM. This is a bigger clue that he’s not intended as a recipient of a pass unless the restricted area is totally abandoned by the defense. The pass speed he is expecting in the scenario is LOB SLOW, not BULLET FAST. Given the angle and location of the roll he should ~never be expecting a pass of that trajectory and speed. That’s why he was surprised.

[Maze]

“What good does developing a 3 do” for a hyper athletic center who is an elite paint finisher on a team with great guards?

da real juice, just wow. Do you even basketball?

You think Ayton's hyper athletic? I don't see any explosion most of the time.I think he's pretty nimble on his feet, but other than that, he looks more Patrick Ewing, than say a young Dwight Howard.You see flashes at times in his ability to sprint up & down the floor.I just don't see it vertically.

[Qwigglez]

I'll post some screenshots.

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Here you can see Hayward staying put because he sees there will be two guys in one corner.

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Booker & Ayton should have recognized that. I mean Ayton is looking at Booker the entire time

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Literally staring right at him while Book is passing it...

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Again perhaps CP3 should have rotated over to give Book another outlet, Cam is still running his rout not realizing the play has already developed and his defender isn't even on him. Book maybe backs it out to the corner to allow his players to rotate instead of hitting Ayton there?

[bwgood77]

And I’m not gonna show any respect for someone that calls me a prick in this very thread. Let him apologize and make a good post for once and I’ll think about it.

Well he is and has been a respected poster for a long time and you seem to have a number of people not thinking too highly of your posts based on the foe lists and lack of responses to your posts.

So maybe try practicing what you preach.

[sunsbg]

Ayton doesn't have a clear path to the basket. Nobody knows what happens even if he catches the ball with a man in front of him. Probably tries to pass it out as usual. Booker doesn't pass well to him as usual too.

Why are people focusing on one debatable play when Monk did singlehandedly get them back in the game and nobody from the wings did anything to prevent him scoring his average in a 3-4 mins span.

[bwgood77]

The pass is far from perfect, but two guys are on Book. Why isn't Ayton's hands up to anticipate the catch, why are his hands down? The ball wasn't even deflected or anything it just hit Ayton's fingers, should he not be expecting a pass in that scenario? Cam and Bridges were both in the corner being covered by one defender so no one was really open. CP3 should have rotated over to allow Cam to move over and then Bridges stays in the corner.

It does look worse and clearly behind Ayton if you actually do pause it at .02. Watching live I thought it was a big mistake by Ayton but wanted to see a replay because I knew something seemed off since it bounced off his hand. It would have been nice if he caught it but I'm not sure many would have while running to the basket for perhaps an alley oop or offensive rebound but suddenly getting a pass that is behind you.

[TouchPassDario]

Thanks for posting the screen shots, it’s very helpful.

I don’t understand why Mikal doesn’t vacate the corner. Looks like he got caught ball watching, but this mistake allows Hayward to stand in paint and allows the corner defender to guard two shooters. CP also doesn’t move at all, but at least he is occupying space with only one defender.

Mikal’s failure to relocate and make himself available forced Book’s hand.

Of course DA is looking at Book: non-ball handlers should always watch the ball on offense unless they’re sprinting off an action, especially when they are in the paint. That doesn’t make Book’s decision to pass any more acceptable or Ayton’s inability to catch the ball any more egregious.

[TouchPassDario]

If Mikal sprints out to the wing from the corner, Hayward has to follow Cam to the corner and Ayton can slam a lob speed pass from Book as Biyombo moved to double him.

[bwgood77]

I'll post some screenshots.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Here you can see Hayward staying put because he sees there will be two guys in one corner.

Spoiler:

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Booker & Ayton should have recognized that. I mean Ayton is looking at Booker the entire time

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Literally staring right at him while Book is passing it...

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Again perhaps CP3 should have rotated over to give Book another outlet, Cam is still running his rout not realizing the play has already developed and his defender isn't even on him. Book maybe backs it out to the corner to allow his players to rotate instead of hitting Ayton there?

One problem is nobody's open. Ayton is kind of open but has a defender in front of him. And although he is staring at Booker, he probably wasn't expecting the pass to be behind him. However, had he lobbed it, since the defender is in the restricted area, Ayton would have likely been fouled or something, because he would have gone for the ball. Ultimately the Hornets defended that well, but the pass could have been better (and the catch attempt even though I think that would be hard for anyone running forward to catch when it was thrown behind him). You see that in football all the time...a receiver running and a pass comes right to where he was, but by then he has to reach back with his hand and he can't catch it in stride, or at all.

[Qwigglez]

Ayton doesn't have a clear path to the basket. Nobody knows what happens even if he catches the ball with a man in front of him. Probably tries to pass it out as usual. Booker doesn't pass well to him as usual too.

Why are people focusing on one debatable play when Monk did singlehandedly get them back in the game and nobody from the wings did anything to prevent him scoring his average in a 3-4 mins span.

it's not just about the one play, I'm just highlighting what I feel Ayton can improve on, and things he should already know. Yeah I mentioned in the gamethread in the 2nd quarter that CP3 and Booker were trying to showboat too much and it would later bite us in the butt. The team allowed Monk to get hot and it's entirely their fault that they didn't respect their opponents, it's been a main theme in our losses to bad teams this year.

[Qwigglez]

Here's another play that I got upset from DA.

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Ayton does a good job of screening Ball here, but I think he could slip to the basket, or at the very least make an effort for an offensive rebound.

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But he just stops at the FT line...

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His motor, his effort is really dependent on how he feels. I'm not saying it's Ayton's fault we lost, I just think there were pivotal moments in the last 6 minutes where a bit of extra effort could have potentially changed the outcome of the game.

[Saberestar]

That pass was AWFUL. Look at all the context. Stop the video at :02: Book draws two guys to him and another Hornet is inside the restricted area to deter Ayton from catching and doing anything. The pass is a bullet, from a few feet away, and off target. Scrolling through to :01, and you can see Bismack has good coverage and has limited the angle for a bounce pass and also for any pass around Ayton’s reasonable catch radius given the speed of pass in tight quarters. It’s just a bad decision poorly executed by Book. Even if Ayton makes a miraculous catch he is about to charge into the restricted area defender. Given all these facts SOMEONE ELSE has to be open, and Book should have either found them or pulled it out. We lose games because of Book’s poor playmaking at times. He’s usually good, but sometimes (here) he blows it.

The pass is far from perfect, but two guys are on Book. Why isn't Ayton's hands up to anticipate the catch, why are his hands down? The ball wasn't even deflected or anything it just hit Ayton's fingers, should he not be expecting a pass in that scenario? Cam and Bridges were both in the corner being covered by one defender so no one was really open. CP3 should have rotated over to allow Cam to move over and then Bridges stays in the corner.

Perfect. This is exactly what I mean when I say he was very likely the third or four option for this play. He sees the restricted area defender, notices the sharp angle Book takes and thinks, correctly, “no way Book passes it to me here, I’ll keep charging down to occupy the restricted area defender, look for an offensive board if Book shoots, and be prepared to gain rebounding position on a kick out to a shooter.”

It is easier than that.

Ayton reacts too slow at many actions every game. Sometimes is on a help defense, sometimes to catch a pass... he is just slow to react and that is something that we commented a lot in the past. I wasn't surprised at all when I saw that play.

He has his strengths but this is one of his weaknesses for sure and that is probably why we don't try to feed him more.