Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[Indomitable]

I dont think the Knicks would trade Quickley for an expiring Lauri...Why would they trade a player thats locked up for 4 years at 3M per year, playing well and is only 21 years old?? Makes no sense for the Knicks...

I think theres a chance the Suns take Lauri for Cam Johnson and Moore...I would definetly do it if Im the Bulls...Anything is better at this point than lock Lauri for a longer and expensive contract here in Chi.

For sure.

If you're trading Lauri to Phoenix, it better be Bridges or bust. Throw a protected pick swap if you have to. I liked Cam Johnson coming out of UNC, but dude is the definition of a mid-minute role player that doesn't move the needle much. Useful guy to have around, but nothing jumps out as particularly great, and he's a year older than Lauri.

Cam is not doing it for me either.

[Hugi Mancura]

I don't think Bulls will trade Lauri, if they would they have done extremely bad job trying to increase his value. If they would try to trade him they would have put him in lineups which would make him look good, but instead they have done the opposite. They are trying to lower his value, not increase it. 62% of his playing time he has shared the floor with both of Lavine and White, and that trio has been awful together. Playing him with Coby and Lavine do not increase his value, but instead lowers it. Teams are very unwilling to pay high price for players who is RFA in couple months (NOP is not trading Ball anymore unless someone over pays), so I doubt they will find trade partners anyway.

And for Lauri to be a bad defender... I don't buy it. On iso situation teams score under 0.80 points per possession which is almost 0.3 less than NBA average. Coby, Thad, WCJ and PWill all are doing lousier job than him. Temple, Lavine and Sato are doing better job, but if your 7 footer is better perimeter defender than 70% of your team I think the problem is not the 7 footer. Same thing when they put him in pick & roll situations, where he is the best defender in Bulls. And he is clearly the best post-up defender, where he lets other team score 0.6 points per possession (0.5 points less than NBA average).

He has two weaknesses in defense. He doesn't know how to fight through screens and he is not good rim protector. He is still teams third best rim protector after Gafford and WCJ (so he is better than Thad), but he is clearly weaker than those two. For people who believes rim protection is the most important skill for big man he is a bad defender, but people who are old enough to remember that Gobert, who won DOY that year and this was 2-3 years ago, was unplayable because he couldn't defend in the perimeter, for them the most important skill for big man in how well they can defend in perimeter and that is what matters in the future.

And on offense. He is very efficient scorer. On post-up he is second best after WCJ, on shoulder second best after PWill, under the basket the best and then we can add his 3 point shooting and on that he is second best. He scores 20 points while handling the ball 1 minute. Most of the time he doesn't create for himself and again if that is the only thing that matter he sucks. But if that's the situation then also does AD, Klay Thompson suck too.

Is Lauri as good as shown above? Probably not. It is just 14 games, but it is 14 games after 9 months break. 9 months is damn long time, so players have a very good opportunity to improve themselves. Do people think Lavine is the only player who trains when there is no season going on? So which is nearer the true Lauri, the one we saw last year? If so, then people must believe last years Thad is also the true version. They had same role last year. Or this years version? That is a **** question to answer. Easy question to answer for those who hate him or love him.

I do think Bulls can't go forward with Lavine, Coby and Lauri trio, so if Bulls believe their future lies with Coby and Lavine then Bulls should definitely trade Lauri, but if they believe Coby can be bench scorer at best then I would try to find a way to keep Lauri even if it would cost 18-20M (I do think his salary will be around 17-18M next year).

[CobyWhite0]

I don't think Bulls will trade Lauri, if they would they have done extremely bad job trying to increase his value. If they would try to trade him they would have put him in lineups which would make him look good, but instead they have done the opposite. They are trying to lower his value, not increase it. 62% of his playing time he has shared the floor with both of Lavine and White, and that trio has been awful together. Playing him with Coby and Lavine do not increase his value, but instead lowers it. Teams are very unwilling to pay high price for players who is RFA in couple months (NOP is not trading Ball anymore unless someone over pays), so I doubt they will find trade partners anyway.

And for Lauri to be a bad defender... I don't buy it. On iso situation teams score under 0.80 points per possession which is almost 0.3 less than NBA average. Coby, Thad, WCJ and PWill all are doing lousier job than him. Temple, Lavine and Sato are doing better job, but if your 7 footer is better perimeter defender than 70% of your team I think the problem is not the 7 footer. Same thing when they put him in pick & roll situations, where he is the best defender in Bulls. And he is clearly the best post-up defender, where he lets other team score 0.6 points per possession (0.5 points less than NBA average).

He has two weaknesses in defense. He doesn't know how to fight through screens and he is not good rim protector. He is still teams third best rim protector after Gafford and WCJ (so he is better than Thad), but he is clearly weaker than those two. For people who believes rim protection is the most important skill for big man he is a bad defender, but people who are old enough to remember that Gobert, who won DOY that year and this was 2-3 years ago, was unplayable because he couldn't defend in the perimeter, for them the most important skill for big man in how well they can defend in perimeter and that is what matters in the future.

And on offense. He is very efficient scorer. On post-up he is second best after WCJ, on shoulder second best after PWill, under the basket the best and then we can add his 3 point shooting and on that he is second best. He scores 20 points while handling the ball 1 minute. Most of the time he doesn't create for himself and again if that is the only thing that matter he sucks. But if that's the situation then also does AD, Klay Thompson suck too.

Is Lauri as good as shown above? Probably not. It is just 14 games, but it is 14 games after 9 months break. 9 months is damn long time, so players have a very good opportunity to improve themselves. Do people think Lavine is the only player who trains when there is no season going on? So which is nearer the true Lauri, the one we saw last year? If so, then people must believe last years Thad is also the true version. They had same role last year. Or this years version? That is a **** question to answer. Easy question to answer for those who hate him or love him.

I do think Bulls can't go forward with Lavine, Coby and Lauri trio, so if Bulls believe their future lies with Coby and Lavine then Bulls should definitely trade Lauri, but if they believe Coby can be bench scorer at best then I would try to find a way to keep Lauri even if it would cost 18-20M (I do think his salary will be around 17-18M next year).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html

Dude, Gobert was never in any way "unplayable". Not even close.

He played over 400 minutes as a 21-year-old rookie, and in his 2nd season he played all 82 games, started 37, and got 26 minutes/night. And he's played over 30 minutes from his 3rd season on.

He's been a Net Positive player every season since his rookie year, and his on-off has always been a big Positive. He has never been close to unplayable.

[sco]

I don't think Bulls will trade Lauri, if they would they have done extremely bad job trying to increase his value. If they would try to trade him they would have put him in lineups which would make him look good, but instead they have done the opposite. They are trying to lower his value, not increase it. 62% of his playing time he has shared the floor with both of Lavine and White, and that trio has been awful together. Playing him with Coby and Lavine do not increase his value, but instead lowers it. Teams are very unwilling to pay high price for players who is RFA in couple months (NOP is not trading Ball anymore unless someone over pays), so I doubt they will find trade partners anyway.

And for Lauri to be a bad defender... I don't buy it. On iso situation teams score under 0.80 points per possession which is almost 0.3 less than NBA average. Coby, Thad, WCJ and PWill all are doing lousier job than him. Temple, Lavine and Sato are doing better job, but if your 7 footer is better perimeter defender than 70% of your team I think the problem is not the 7 footer. Same thing when they put him in pick & roll situations, where he is the best defender in Bulls. And he is clearly the best post-up defender, where he lets other team score 0.6 points per possession (0.5 points less than NBA average).

He has two weaknesses in defense. He doesn't know how to fight through screens and he is not good rim protector. He is still teams third best rim protector after Gafford and WCJ (so he is better than Thad), but he is clearly weaker than those two. For people who believes rim protection is the most important skill for big man he is a bad defender, but people who are old enough to remember that Gobert, who won DOY that year and this was 2-3 years ago, was unplayable because he couldn't defend in the perimeter, for them the most important skill for big man in how well they can defend in perimeter and that is what matters in the future.

And on offense. He is very efficient scorer. On post-up he is second best after WCJ, on shoulder second best after PWill, under the basket the best and then we can add his 3 point shooting and on that he is second best. He scores 20 points while handling the ball 1 minute. Most of the time he doesn't create for himself and again if that is the only thing that matter he sucks. But if that's the situation then also does AD, Klay Thompson suck too.

Is Lauri as good as shown above? Probably not. It is just 14 games, but it is 14 games after 9 months break. 9 months is damn long time, so players have a very good opportunity to improve themselves. Do people think Lavine is the only player who trains when there is no season going on? So which is nearer the true Lauri, the one we saw last year? If so, then people must believe last years Thad is also the true version. They had same role last year. Or this years version? That is a **** question to answer. Easy question to answer for those who hate him or love him.

I do think Bulls can't go forward with Lavine, Coby and Lauri trio, so if Bulls believe their future lies with Coby and Lavine then Bulls should definitely trade Lauri, but if they believe Coby can be bench scorer at best then I would try to find a way to keep Lauri even if it would cost 18-20M (I do think his salary will be around 17-18M next year).

The Lauri you talk about would be great, if he could stay on the floor. I think the Bulls went into the season wanting to keep him, if he produced...he did. The issue I have is that he can't stay healthy. He has played less than 70% of his games during his first 4 years, with no reason to believe his durability will change. You can fall in love with his per game stats all you want, but with him, I think you have to look at per season stats, and those are below what you can get from a MLE guy.

I'm all in on take whatever we can get (even a couple 2nd rounders) and move on.

[kodo]

Lauri market price right now is about 17-18 mil a year. No, I don’t think it’s a fair analogy.

My personal opinion has to do with AK evaluation, BD assessment, and our physician team recs. If they spell hope, I would resign him at market price with incentives for him to earn up to 22 mil a year based on stats, played games, and accolades earned per year.

No, you wouldn't.

1 - Incentives can only be for up to 15%. On $18 million salary, incentives can only be $2.7 million, taking him to $20.7 million.

2 - A bonus cannot be based on the player dressing in uniform or being eligible to play for a specific number of games.

I didn't know that about games played bonuses, good info!

AK could do the opposite, and put in provisions for missed games/time. This happened with Embiid.
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/11/joel-embiid-max-contract-injury-provisions

It seems Philadelphia wrote the contract with the 23-year-old's injury history in mind. According to a report from ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Embiid's deal includes provisions that would allow the 76ers to cut Embiid and save money if he misses significant time due to specific injuries.

Wojnarowski reports that Philadelphia's financial protections only come in to play if Embiid misses at least 25 games or plays less 1,650 minutes in a single season due to injuries to his foot or back, parts of the body that Embiid has already struggled with. If Embiid misses time with a "new" injury, such as one to his knee or shoulder, the financial provisions do not apply.

If, however, Embiid does miss more than 25 games or play less than 1,650 with a recurring injury, the 76ers can cut him and save money.

I think this was always unlikely with someone of Embiid's upside, even if he did suffer injuries I doubt any GM exercises this. But for someone of Lauri's level, it might be make more sense.

[sco]

Lauri market price right now is about 17-18 mil a year. No, I don’t think it’s a fair analogy.

My personal opinion has to do with AK evaluation, BD assessment, and our physician team recs. If they spell hope, I would resign him at market price with incentives for him to earn up to 22 mil a year based on stats, played games, and accolades earned per year.

No, you wouldn't.

1 - Incentives can only be for up to 15%. On $18 million salary, incentives can only be $2.7 million, taking him to $20.7 million.

2 - A bonus cannot be based on the player dressing in uniform or being eligible to play for a specific number of games.

I didn't know that about games played bonuses, good info!

AK could do the opposite, and put in provisions for missed games/time. This happened with Embiid.
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/11/joel-embiid-max-contract-injury-provisions

It seems Philadelphia wrote the contract with the 23-year-old's injury history in mind. According to a report from ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Embiid's deal includes provisions that would allow the 76ers to cut Embiid and save money if he misses significant time due to specific injuries.

Wojnarowski reports that Philadelphia's financial protections only come in to play if Embiid misses at least 25 games or plays less 1,650 minutes in a single season due to injuries to his foot or back, parts of the body that Embiid has already struggled with. If Embiid misses time with a "new" injury, such as one to his knee or shoulder, the financial provisions do not apply.

If, however, Embiid does miss more than 25 games or play less than 1,650 with a recurring injury, the 76ers can cut him and save money.

I think this was always unlikely with someone of Embiid's upside, even if he did suffer injuries I doubt any GM exercises this. But for someone of Lauri's level, it might be make more sense.

Good points, but my question is, which number is used when determining cap space for the year? I don't really care what they pay Lauri, only what the opportunity cost of paying him is (in terms of what we can spend on players who will actually play).

[pipfan]

I just think Lauri has too much upside to ditch him. He could be an elite 3rd option who adds space and the ability to have big nights. I say, what FA are going to get who is better?

As for his injuries, what if he comes back and plays most of next season? SO MANY players sit out now, that the idea that guys will play 75 games is an old one. It's a concern, but his talent should be able to override his drawbacks.

[sco]

I just think Lauri has too much upside to ditch him. He could be an elite 3rd option who adds space and the ability to have big nights. I say, what FA are going to get who is better?

As for his injuries, what if he comes back and plays most of next season? SO MANY players sit out now, that the idea that guys will play 75 games is an old one. It's a concern, but his talent should be able to override his drawbacks.

That's what Otto fans said.

[Dez]

I just think Lauri has too much upside to ditch him. He could be an elite 3rd option who adds space and the ability to have big nights. I say, what FA are going to get who is better?

As for his injuries, what if he comes back and plays most of next season? SO MANY players sit out now, that the idea that guys will play 75 games is an old one. It's a concern, but his talent should be able to override his drawbacks.

Given that he hasn't improved or added to his game during the 4 years of his career does he actually have upside? I'm thinking he is what he is at this point, a streaky injury prone big.

What if he comes back and plays most of next season? History says he won't, the only consistent sample size of Lauri's career is his injury layoffs.

[DroseReturnChi]

I just think Lauri has too much upside to ditch him. He could be an elite 3rd option who adds space and the ability to have big nights. I say, what FA are going to get who is better?

As for his injuries, what if he comes back and plays most of next season? SO MANY players sit out now, that the idea that guys will play 75 games is an old one. It's a concern, but his talent should be able to override his drawbacks.

yeah but the funny thing is AK already ditched him by lowballing Lauri is already thinking abt Dallas so am I.
And even if he signed a 4 yr contract, he would be relegated to a 5th option along with PAW I just dont see him coexisting when he was abandoned by coach as well its no better than Boylen. No one cares in the Bulls he lost superstar potential because every staff cares abt reclamation projects on two busts (carter, white) rather than developing the best guy.
This situation is typical both sides move on for a fresh start but I wouldnt be surprised if Lauri became number 1 option.
I miss Hoiberg when he could have turned Lauri into all star he exactly knew how to utilize him.

[MGB8]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

[WindyCityBorn]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

He absolutely does not have 1st or 2nd option talent, but I would be content with him if he could stay healthy. But he can’t. I’m not sure what we should do with him.

[Almost Retired]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

He absolutely does not have 1st or 2nd option talent, but I would be content with him if he could stay healthy. But he can’t. I’m not sure what we should do with him.

Maybe the best thing for both sides is change of scenery. For whatever reason he doesn't pair up well with Wendell. And the odds are that he will suffer injuries of some type just about every year. I would not commit $20 Million a year or more for him based on his injury history. I say try to trade him for a FRP or more likely a couple of rotation players, one of which needs to be a SF. Let another team roll the dice. Draft another PG or SF in the Draft. I'd love to get Kispert but I doubt he'll be available by the time we pick unless we move up a few slots. Use Lauri money to get a few Free Agents that can help us.

[WindyCityBorn]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

He absolutely does not have 1st or 2nd option talent, but I would be content with him if he could stay healthy. But he can’t. I’m not sure what we should do with him.

Maybe the best thing for both sides is change of scenery. For whatever reason he doesn't pair up well with Wendell. And the odds are that he will suffer injuries of some type just about every year. I would not commit $20 Million a year or more for him based on his injury history. I say try to trade him for a FRP or more likely a couple of rotation players, one of which needs to be a SF. Let another team roll the dice. Draft another PG or SF in the Draft. I'd love to get Kispert but I doubt he'll be available by the time we pick unless we move up a few slots. Use Lauri money to get a few Free Agents that can help us.

I want Carter replaced so his fit with him is of no consequence to me! I’m definitely not comfortable with giving him $20 million per right now. He would need to come back stay healthy for the rest of the season and play even better than he did pre injury.

[ZOMG]

What if I told you... that the Bulls have absolutely no intention of trading Lauri and are tanking his value by intentionally keeping him out longer than necessary?

This is my favorite conspiracy theory at the moment. It's probably Donovan's "Yeah, he won't be back until after the AS break" comment that sealed it for me.

[Leslie Forman]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

He really isn't even a rich man's Bobby Portis. He has never been any better than Portis. He just got to play more minutes.

But one guy was the Great White Hype, and the other was some late pick with crazy eyes and a good right hook.

[MrSparkle]

Lol. Lauri stans projecting him to be more than the slightly rich man’s but much softer Bobby Portis level player he is.

He really isn't even a rich man's Bobby Portis. He has never been any better than Portis. He just got to play more minutes.

But one guy was the Great White Hype, and the other was some late pick with crazy eyes and a good right hook.

I totally agree with this.

Bobby figured out his role in the league; too small to defend the post and too slow to cover wings, so he's obviously not a premier player, but he's confident as hell on offense. He puts up shots he knows he can make, with no reservations. As he's settled down this year, he's actually shooting 50% from 3P on lower volume. And he's tough, so while he's an easy defensive liability, he does provide intimidation in the paint and glass. I also think he's always had better handles than Lauri.

He is crazy, as the Niko punch and hard foul on KCP proved. But Bucks got the FA steal of the off-season: contender paying $3.6m for a 6th man in his prime.

[coldfish]

What if I told you... that the Bulls have absolutely no intention of trading Lauri and are tanking his value by intentionally keeping him out longer than necessary?

This is my favorite conspiracy theory at the moment. It's probably Donovan's "Yeah, he won't be back until after the AS break" comment that sealed it for me.

IMO the Bulls are going to stand pat and end up matching a huge offer for Lauri this summer (4/100?). I would not be even slightly surprised if the team looks virtually the same in February 2022 as it does now. Capspace will just be used for better reserve big men and another wing.

[Indomitable]

What if I told you... that the Bulls have absolutely no intention of trading Lauri and are tanking his value by intentionally keeping him out longer than necessary?

This is my favorite conspiracy theory at the moment. It's probably Donovan's "Yeah, he won't be back until after the AS break" comment that sealed it for me.

IMO the Bulls are going to stand pat and end up matching a huge offer for Lauri this summer (4/100?). I would not be even slightly surprised if the team looks virtually the same in February 2022 as it does now. Capspace will just be used for better reserve big men and another wing.

I believe they will reach to Nerlens Noel type. He defensively fits the play style.

Lauri would have help a lot last night. We could have ran an Otto, Lauri, Sato, Coby , and Lavine team. We would have removed Ayton from the paint.

[sco]

What if I told you... that the Bulls have absolutely no intention of trading Lauri and are tanking his value by intentionally keeping him out longer than necessary?

This is my favorite conspiracy theory at the moment. It's probably Donovan's "Yeah, he won't be back until after the AS break" comment that sealed it for me.

IMO the Bulls are going to stand pat and end up matching a huge offer for Lauri this summer (4/100?). I would not be even slightly surprised if the team looks virtually the same in February 2022 as it does now. Capspace will just be used for better reserve big men and another wing.

You must mean with Lauri in street clothes.

I disagree. AK has impressed me both with how aggressive he was in nabbing Billy, and also how he didn't budge on Lauri last offseason.