OT: Tiger Woods seriously injured in car accident

[Jello Biafra]

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

Are you a member at Decatur CC? They are hosting a Prep Tour tourney there and at Red Tail and I’m thinking about taking my 13 year old but know nothing about either course.

I get downstate for work often we should find a night I do an overnight and we can meetup. I actually stay in Quincy pretty often which isn't exactly half way between Decatur and St Louis but we could figure something out. A RealGm downstate golf outing

Cool. I'm self employed so I can make my schedule somewhat flexible. Hit me up any time. Maybe Duck can get us into Bellerive or one of the other great STL courses too!

[DuckIII]

Are you a member at Decatur CC? They are hosting a Prep Tour tourney there and at Red Tail and I’m thinking about taking my 13 year old but know nothing about either course.

I get downstate for work often we should find a night I do an overnight and we can meetup. I actually stay in Quincy pretty often which isn't exactly half way between Decatur and St Louis but we could figure something out. A RealGm downstate golf outing

Cool. I'm self employed so I can make my schedule somewhat flexible. Hit me up any time. Maybe Duck can get us into Bellerive or one of the other great STL courses too!

I wish. I’ve only been able to worm my way onto Bellerive twice in my whole life. Plenty of solid public courses down here though.

[Chi town]

I get downstate for work often we should find a night I do an overnight and we can meetup. I actually stay in Quincy pretty often which isn't exactly half way between Decatur and St Louis but we could figure something out. A RealGm downstate golf outing

Cool. I'm self employed so I can make my schedule somewhat flexible. Hit me up any time. Maybe Duck can get us into Bellerive or one of the other great STL courses too!

I wish. I’ve only been able to worm my way onto Bellerive twice in my whole life. Plenty of solid public courses down here though.

Duck how’d you get your boys into golf? I’ve got a 12 and 10 year old. We play together and hit the range but neither of them are asking me to play. I asked my Dad all the time when I was a kid.

[Dresden]

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

The left leg is actually more important for a right handed golfer than the right one. I heard one surgeon say that since it seems like most of the damage was to his right leg, that bodes a bit better for his recovery and chances of playing golf again than if it was his left that was so badly mangled.

But I agree, his chances of coming back from this have to be very slim indeed. Hogan was only 30. I think Rory McIllroy had the best comment on the situation when he said that (I'm paraphrasing): "at this point, golf is so far out of the equation. He's not superman. Let's just hope he can be there for his kids again, and lead a somewhat normal life after this."

[dice]

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/NxYLaaa

Not gonna speculate what happened, but this seems hard to do on a dry road during the day.

Hawthorne Blvd in RPV... just to add to what others are saying, this isn't some crazy windy street where it should be "easy" to flip your car.

yet he apparently just missed an off ramp that is there precisely because of the dangerous conditions. neighbors report there have been many accidents at that location

Watch on YouTube

for those who don't know, he was running late for an event with drew brees and justin herbert. almost hit a guy leaving his previous location after he was delayed

[chicagoballer]

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/NxYLaaa

Not gonna speculate what happened, but this seems hard to do on a dry road during the day.

Hawthorne Blvd in RPV... just to add to what others are saying, this isn't some crazy windy street where it should be "easy" to flip your car.

yet he apparently just missed an off ramp that is there precisely because of the dangerous conditions. neighbors report there have been many accidents at that location

Watch on YouTube

for those who don't know, he was running late for an event with drew brees and justin herbert. almost hit a guy leaving his previous location after he was delayed

That gravel off ramp is for large and heavy vehicles. Any hill with certain grade will have it for trucks to bail in case brakes fail with heavy loads.

Accidents happen there because it’s a busy street. It’s the main access street to PV. And people in California love to speed. And I have heard same rumors that he was speeding through PV before the accident

[ZOMG]

Cool. I'm self employed so I can make my schedule somewhat flexible. Hit me up any time. Maybe Duck can get us into Bellerive or one of the other great STL courses too!

I wish. I’ve only been able to worm my way onto Bellerive twice in my whole life. Plenty of solid public courses down here though.

Duck how’d you get your boys into golf? I’ve got a 12 and 10 year old. We play together and hit the range but neither of them are asking me to play. I asked my Dad all the time when I was a kid.

I've become a lot more relaxed about stuff like this as the years have gone by. When my son was a few years old, I had all kinds of plans ready to get him into basketball very early, like myself. But he's just never been into it and pretty soon I realized I don't want to force him to play. He's 12 now, and it's been surprisingly easy to leave behind the "hoop dreams" for him. As long as he's happy and doesn't hurt other people, it's all good by me - I don't care what he throws himself into.

Then again, Ton Kukoc first touched a basketball when he was 15, so...

[Jello Biafra]

I wish. I’ve only been able to worm my way onto Bellerive twice in my whole life. Plenty of solid public courses down here though.

Duck how’d you get your boys into golf? I’ve got a 12 and 10 year old. We play together and hit the range but neither of them are asking me to play. I asked my Dad all the time when I was a kid.

I've become a lot more relaxed about stuff like this as the years have gone by. When my son was a few years old, I had all kinds of plans ready to get him into basketball very early, like myself. But he's just never been into it and pretty soon I realized I don't want to force him to play. He's 12 now, and it's been surprisingly easy to leave behind the "hoop dreams" for him. As long as he's happy and doesn't hurt other people, it's all good by me - I don't care what he throws himself into.

Then again, Ton Kukoc first touched a basketball when he was 15, so...

Raising doesn't go as planned sometimes. My son is 21. When he was in grade school I tried to get him into Junior golf at the club and take him with me to play. Unfortunately, he never wanted to go. Two boys he went to school with also went to our club were on the Junior Golf team and were excellent golfers, but they teased him and gave him a hard time. That made him hate it. He told me "it's your dream dad, not mine" and played tennis instead. I wish I had him as a golf buddy at 21. He lives right by that golf course on Lake Shore Drive now, I think its called Eli Hershkovitz or some thing like that.

[DuckIII]

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

The left leg is actually more important for a right handed golfer than the right one. I heard one surgeon say that since it seems like most of the damage was to his right leg, that bodes a bit better for his recovery and chances of playing golf again than if it was his left that was so badly mangled.

I suppose there is a way to describe the left as being more important in the sense that without rotating your left side out you can’t finish a swing properly, and weight does end up on the left. Certainly both sides are important.

But when it comes to health and strength it’s really not close. The right leg accepts and holds virtually all of the weight in a turn and that anchor is then used to explode through the swing. In a high level golf swing with power like Woods has, the golfer quite literally uses his right leg from the hip to the ball of his foot, to push off the earth and explode through the shot.

Now, all that force has to go somewhere, and where it goes is the left side to complete the swing. Both are critical. But you don’t even get to the left leg until after the right leg accepts all that weight, stabilizes the force generated by the upper body turn, and pushes all that through to the left.

[Dresden]

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

The left leg is actually more important for a right handed golfer than the right one. I heard one surgeon say that since it seems like most of the damage was to his right leg, that bodes a bit better for his recovery and chances of playing golf again than if it was his left that was so badly mangled.

I suppose there is a way to describe the left as being more important in the sense that without rotating your left side out you can’t finish a swing properly, and weight does end up on the left. Certainly both sides are important.

But when it comes to health and strength it’s really not close. The right leg accepts and holds virtually all of the weight in a turn and that anchor is then used to explode through the swing. In a high level golf swing with power like Woods has, the golfer quite literally uses his right leg from the hip to the ball of his foot, to push off the earth and explode through the shot.

Now, all that force has to go somewhere, and where it goes is the left side to complete the swing. Both are critical. But you don’t even get to the left leg until after the right leg accepts all that weight, stabilizes the force generated by the upper body turn, and pushes all that through to the left.

"I think Tiger can walk again. I think Tiger can play golf again and return to the Tour," the PGA golfer turned orthopedic surgeon Dr. Bill Mallon told Insider.

Tiger Woods shattered his right ankle and suffered multiple leg fractures in a car crash Tuesday.

Dr. Bill Mallon thinks the golf legend will be able to walk, play golf, and return to the PGA Tour.

The former pro golfer, now an orthopedic surgeon, believes Woods' recovery will take about a year.
...

"And assuming he plays golf again - meaning he doesn't get an infection or severe arthritis in that ankle - I think he can return to the Tour," he added.
...

"Woods' "superb" physical condition for a 45-year-old will undoubtedly work in his favor as he attempts to come back from what is arguably the most devastating injury of his career thus far, Mallon said. But another, perhaps more surprising advantage Woods has is that he broke his right leg, not his left.

When a right-handed player like Woods swings his club, his right leg essentially operates as a pillar of support. His left ankle and knee, however, face torque as he drives his weight into the ball and whips the club head around at top speed. Plus, right-handers roll onto their left ankles at the tail end of each swing.

"So your left ankle takes a lot more stress in a golf swing than your right ankle does," Mallon said. "I'm not saying your right ankle doesn't take some stress, but not nearly as much as the left ankle does. The left ankle absolutely needs more flexibility than the right ankle."

"He's better off having injured his right ankle than his left," he added. "And, yeah, if he'd injured his left, he would have had more trouble getting back the flexibility in the ankle."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tiger-woods-able-walk-even-142612008.html

[Dresden]

If you look at the past injuries Tiger has had, they've either been to his back, or to his left knee. Never his right. He's had 3-4 surgeries on his left knee, and damaged his left achilles at one point. The above opinion is the second I've read in the past few days by ortho doctors saying he's lucky, relatively speaking, it was his right and not his left leg that got injured.

[DuckIII]

I agree with that doctor’s explanation of the left side of the golf swing, Dresden, except comparatively to the right. It’s not just a “pillar of support.” It is that, but significantly more. It’s a huge part of the active driving force of a modern golf swing. Frankly, the doctor’s explanation of what the right leg does is an antiquated explanation of a high level golf swing by today’s standards. On the right side of the body at least.

Regardless, both sides are important and having a reconstructed leg doing either job is a huge hill to climb at the elite level. Then throw in his back issues, and it looks really bad.

[MalagaBulls]

OT to the OT of this thread. What do you golf expert peeps think or Jon Rahm? Is he legit and talented enough to win Grand Slam events?

[madvillian]

OT to the OT of this thread. What do you golf expert peeps think or Jon Rahm? Is he legit and talented enough to win Grand Slam events?

I saw him at Torrey last year with Tiger and Rory. He hits the ball on another level even from Rory. Ball explodes off his club faces. He certainly has the talent and can get the ball so high with irons it gives him a lot of birdie chances even on tough holes with tough pins from longer away.

That said, I think his best finish is a top 5 a Augusta so far as majors go. If he continues to play well I think it's only a matter of time at Augusta or maybe a PGA. His ball striking ability will shine at those majors.

[Dresden]

I agree with that doctor’s explanation of the left side of the golf swing, Dresden, except comparatively to the right. It’s not just a “pillar of support.” It is that, but significantly more. It’s a huge part of the active driving force of a modern golf swing. Frankly, the doctor’s explanation of what the right leg does is an antiquated explanation of a high level golf swing by today’s standards. On the right side of the body at least.

Regardless, both sides are important and having a reconstructed leg doing either job is a huge hill to climb at the elite level. Then throw in his back issues, and it looks really bad.

The guy did play on the tour for 4 years, before becoming a surgeon, so I tend to think he knows what he's talking about....

[Dresden]

OT to the OT of this thread. What do you golf expert peeps think or Jon Rahm? Is he legit and talented enough to win Grand Slam events?

I saw him at Torrey last year with Tiger and Rory. He hits the ball on another level even from Rory. Ball explodes off his club faces. He certainly has the talent and can get the ball so high with irons it gives him a lot of birdie chances even on tough holes with tough pins from longer away.

That said, I think his best finish is a top 5 a Augusta so far as majors go. If he continues to play well I think it's only a matter of time at Augusta or maybe a PGA. His ball striking ability will shine at those majors.

He certainly is capable. DIdn't he win a big event last year, like the Tour Championship at East Lake?

[DuckIII]

Cool. I'm self employed so I can make my schedule somewhat flexible. Hit me up any time. Maybe Duck can get us into Bellerive or one of the other great STL courses too!

I wish. I’ve only been able to worm my way onto Bellerive twice in my whole life. Plenty of solid public courses down here though.

Duck how’d you get your boys into golf? I’ve got a 12 and 10 year old. We play together and hit the range but neither of them are asking me to play. I asked my Dad all the time when I was a kid.

So, I have three sons ages 17, 13 and 10. I introduced all of them to golf at about the age 7-8. From there three paths branch out that are all very different. This is not surprising to me as in my experience with kids and golf they fall into extremes. I coach middle school golf and give lessons to kids (introductory lessons, beyond a certain point I refer them to "real" golf instructors). They either love it, or don't find it very interesting.

Oldest Son: I got him started at age 7. He liked it okay and we played and practiced some, nothing real serious, until he was 10. One day on the range he told me liked golf okay, preferred his other sports, and just wanted to play for fun. Didn't want me to really "coach" him on how to play. So that was that. His life, his interests, so he focused on basketball, football and baseball.

Fast forward to 2020 and the year of COVID. In May he anticipated there would be no football in the fall, so he decided he would try out for the golf team. He was a pretty lousy golfer at the time, played maybe twice a year, and was only going to go out for the team to socialize and scratch his competitive itch. But he took it seriously and started playing 3-4 days a week with friends and when they didn't want to play that much he started playing on his own. He ended up finding out that he loves it, and now plays regularly. He made the team, and over the course of about 5 months went from shooting 120-something to low 90s/high 80s (our home course is par 72 but pretty easy).

Youngest Son: Introduced him to golf at age 7, and he could not have cared less. He goes out with me and his brothers sometimes and will hit a few shots, but otherwise just likes goofing around and being in the golf cart. This year he told me wants to try to practice it for real to get better, but that he has no interest in doing it competitively. He's all about football.

Middle Son: Introduced him to it at age 6 and from the minute he started hitting balls he could not get enough of it. Played in his first tournament at age 7, by age 8 was playing 5-6 tournaments and now plays in a dozen or so a year plus IESA school golf as a 7th grader. Its his favorite sport, he plays all the time, and he's very good. I think he'll be better than me by the time he's 15 or even before.

3 boys, same father, introduced to the sport at the same age, in the same circumstances, and three completely different reactions and degrees of interest. They all know I'm an avid golfer and love golf. They all know I would love them to love golf as well. But I never forced it on any of them or expressed disappointment in the two that had lesser interest. I see the same thing with other junior golfers as well.

I'm sure there are ways to more coercively get a kid to like a particular sport (start them much younger so they don't know anything else, use a heavier reward/inducement style, etc.), but ultimately they are going to like it or they won't. And that is especially true with golf because unlike so many other youth sports, its not really a "I get to hang out with all my friends" type of deal. Its much more solitary. So if they don't really just love something about the game itself, there aren't many collateral things that will bind them to it.

[DuckIII]

I agree with that doctor’s explanation of the left side of the golf swing, Dresden, except comparatively to the right. It’s not just a “pillar of support.” It is that, but significantly more. It’s a huge part of the active driving force of a modern golf swing. Frankly, the doctor’s explanation of what the right leg does is an antiquated explanation of a high level golf swing by today’s standards. On the right side of the body at least.

Regardless, both sides are important and having a reconstructed leg doing either job is a huge hill to climb at the elite level. Then throw in his back issues, and it looks really bad.

The guy did play on the tour for 4 years, before becoming a surgeon, so I tend to think he knows what he's talking about....

In the 1970s. Swing philosophy and technique has changed dramatically since then, including in just the last 10 or so years.

He obviously knows what he's talking about. I don't disagree with most of what he said. I am self taught, continue to teach myself, coach my kid, coach a school team, and give youth lessons. I keep up on these things. And his notion that the right leg is a less critical "support pillar" for a right handed golfer just isn't accurate by modern standards which focus far more on power loading than they used to. No one teaches Nick Faldo's swing anymore. Standards I didn't invent, but that are based on what is being taught by the best teaching pros in the world and that are being used on tour. These aren't my ideas. I'm just aware of what is out there.

[DuckIII]

OT to the OT of this thread. What do you golf expert peeps think or Jon Rahm? Is he legit and talented enough to win Grand Slam events?

There's no doubt he's talented enough. I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up winning multiple grand slam events before his career is over. He's one of the prototype players for the modern, elite professional golfer.

[Am2626]

The left leg is actually more important for a right handed golfer than the right one. I heard one surgeon say that since it seems like most of the damage was to his right leg, that bodes a bit better for his recovery and chances of playing golf again than if it was his left that was so badly mangled.

I suppose there is a way to describe the left as being more important in the sense that without rotating your left side out you can’t finish a swing properly, and weight does end up on the left. Certainly both sides are important.

But when it comes to health and strength it’s really not close. The right leg accepts and holds virtually all of the weight in a turn and that anchor is then used to explode through the swing. In a high level golf swing with power like Woods has, the golfer quite literally uses his right leg from the hip to the ball of his foot, to push off the earth and explode through the shot.

Now, all that force has to go somewhere, and where it goes is the left side to complete the swing. Both are critical. But you don’t even get to the left leg until after the right leg accepts all that weight, stabilizes the force generated by the upper body turn, and pushes all that through to the left.

"I think Tiger can walk again. I think Tiger can play golf again and return to the Tour," the PGA golfer turned orthopedic surgeon Dr. Bill Mallon told Insider.

Tiger Woods shattered his right ankle and suffered multiple leg fractures in a car crash Tuesday.

Dr. Bill Mallon thinks the golf legend will be able to walk, play golf, and return to the PGA Tour.

The former pro golfer, now an orthopedic surgeon, believes Woods' recovery will take about a year.
...

"And assuming he plays golf again - meaning he doesn't get an infection or severe arthritis in that ankle - I think he can return to the Tour," he added.
...

Woods' "superb" physical condition for a 45-year-old will undoubtedly work in his favor as he attempts to come back from what is arguably the most devastating injury of his career thus far, Mallon said. But another, perhaps more surprising advantage Woods has is that he broke his right leg, not his left.

When a right-handed player like Woods swings his club, his right leg essentially operates as a pillar of support. His left ankle and knee, however, face torque as he drives his weight into the ball and whips the club head around at top speed. Plus, right-handers roll onto their left ankles at the tail end of each swing.

"So your left ankle takes a lot more stress in a golf swing than your right ankle does," Mallon said. "I'm not saying your right ankle doesn't take some stress, but not nearly as much as the left ankle does. The left ankle absolutely needs more flexibility than the right ankle."

"He's better off having injured his right ankle than his left," he added. "And, yeah, if he'd injured his left, he would have had more trouble getting back the flexibility in the ankle."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tiger-woods-able-walk-even-142612008.html

He’s still 45 year’s old where the average age of PGA Golfer is 35. It’s going to be a good 2 years before he will even be able to play golf again and at 47 is he even going to want to do it anymore?