So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[sixers hoops]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Morey is going to trade Maxey by the deadline. For who, I don't know. But I feel like Morey wants to "land the plane" and we are currently at our best right now. Creating a 4 "star" team with Ben, Joel, and Tobias playing better than any other point in their career feels like a no-brainer move for Morey.

I'm sticking with DeRozan as his target, but I could see a wildcard as we enter March.

And re-sign DeRozan? I don’t see a rental situation. If Morey is going to sacrifice some chips, I would think he would want a player under contract for another two years or so, at a price he can work under the tax. If they are committed to re-sign the player, then I wouldn’t trade for Lowry or DeRozan.

[youngcrev]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Morey is going to trade Maxey by the deadline. For who, I don't know. But I feel like Morey wants to "land the plane" and we are currently at our best right now. Creating a 4 "star" team with Ben, Joel, and Tobias playing better than any other point in their career feels like a no-brainer move for Morey.

I'm sticking with DeRozan as his target, but I could see a wildcard as we enter March.

"Oh, all I want is 3 pointers? Gimme Ben Simmons, Demar DeRozan and Joel Embiid! That'll show 'em!"

-Daryl Morey

[Stanford]

Demarr would help tremendously. I'd love to get a stretch 5 and go

Shake
Demarr
Thybulle/Korkmaz
Tobias
Stretch 5

while Ben and Jo sit

[snoopy13]

Cp 3 was traded for expering only one young play and one first and Cp3 had two full years left Lowry only has less than season left so Lowry should be worth less

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I will be very surprised if we just stand pat and do nothing, but I wont be mad about it either. If anyone gets moved, it's probably Maxey. He's really the perfect player for a lotto team. He'll get an opportunity on a losing team and make us all regret trading him. I have no doubt that if were getting starter minutes for us, he'd be averaging at the least 14 and 5. With that said, we'd also be losing a lot more games.

On the other end, I'm fine waiting this out with Maxey. Eventually he IS going to pay off for us and be a good player. It just depends on if Morey and company are willing to wait or if they want to trade him for a half season rental of a Kyle Lowry or Derozen. Myself, I think it would be stupid to trade for a player that we wont be able to re-sign. Acquiring Lowry or Derozen doesn't get us any closer to a finals appearance in my opinion. It's still probably not enough to get past a Nets team at full capacity. Not trying to go off topic, but eventually Brooklyn is going to take over the number one spot in the east. They're just too good not to.
Should we make a trade? I think we should, but it needs to be done in moderation. I really....really don't want to see us part with any of our younger players. Maxey, Shake, and Matisse should all just stick around for a little bit. Lets keep internal growth as the main goal here. We're seeing it. It's not dramatic, but Ben is finally scoring more than 10 points per game, Shake is up and down, but the talent is there, Thybulle's defense has already won us a few games, we've all seen what Maxey can do with starters minutes, Joel is having his best season, Harris is having his best season. Isn't it a bit of a risk to add a Kyle Lowry or Derozen to a team that is already developing it's own chemistry?

Look...If Chicago says "the hell with it" and offers us Lavine for Maxey and a future first, we have to take it, but I don't think that they will. I think Chicago wants to make the playoffs and as sad as it can be to fight for the 8th seed, they are doing just that. Looking at the standings right now things are pretty close in regards to the last two playoff seeds. You have to think that eventually Boston and Miami will get their act together, but right now, it's still rather wide open with Cleveland, Orlando, and Detroit really being the only teams that look to be packing it in and out of those three teams there are no real trade options for us...Unless we did a small move and added Terrence Ross or something, which in that case we wouldn't have to give up much at all.
Out west it's the same with Minnesota clearly giving in along with Houston. We could possibly pluck Eric Gordon or PJ Tucker from the Rockets. The Kings have nobody realistically available that we should want to trade for (actually we should have went balls deep on trying to move up in the draft for Haliburton). OKC? Maybe Dort? The Pelicans? Lonzo? Maybe? I guess my point is that we shouldn't be expecting a huge move at the deadline. I look for us to do something smaller that still pays off for us. If we add Lonzo Ball to this team I think it will be just as good as adding Kyle Lowry. Lonzo Ball isn't going to come in here and get in the way of Simmons doing his thing. Instead...He's going to be another fitting piece. That's the way I see it. We have our three stars. We need to be smart and add players that can fit in without hindering the good things that are going on already.

[51X3RF4N]

Depth is a little overated in the Playoffs. It all comes down to your 2 or 3 stars and 3 or 4 good role players. Then having a good system who suits them, wich obviously demands compatible skillsets between your players.

Obviously is better to have a good deep 10 man rotation just in case, and to adjust to matchups or injuries, but to me it isn't the key to winning championships.

We need a real perimeter scoring and playmaking threat, that's really what we are lacking right now.

It's not just depth it's specific role players with various skills. What if you need a stretch big or a creative PG, or if Danny is struggling and you need a 3 who can hit a 3?

Having Matisse and Dwight and Shake off the bench is great but 2 of those guys lack scoring skills. If the matchup dictates you need a scoring punch from your bench, it would be nice to have the option to run any 8 or 9 man lineup you want every game.

Rather than being forced to rely on the same 8 guys.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Negrodamus]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Morey is going to trade Maxey by the deadline. For who, I don't know. But I feel like Morey wants to "land the plane" and we are currently at our best right now. Creating a 4 "star" team with Ben, Joel, and Tobias playing better than any other point in their career feels like a no-brainer move for Morey.

I'm sticking with DeRozan as his target, but I could see a wildcard as we enter March.

"Oh, all I want is 3 pointers? Gimme Ben Simmons, Demar DeRozan and Joel Embiid! That'll show 'em!"

-Daryl Morey

I think the real allure is that at least a 20 ppg scorer or Ben Simmons will likely be on the court at all times throughout the game. That takes pressure off guys like Shake to produce with a group of non-scorers.

Additional bonus if we can keep a nice role player like Seth Curry.

Green, Maxey, Ferguson, and Poirer for DeRozan works. I'm not sure Maxey really adds much to the Spurs situation since they have a ton of young guards, but it also gives them value instead of letting DeRozan walk.

I also get the apprehension of doing this trade if they don't get some assurances from DeRozan that he'd re-sign.

[eyeatoma]

I'd take any of:

Beal, LaVine, DeRozan, Lowry, or McCollum

Any of them would make us firm contenders, as opposed to the fake contenders we are now.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[elchengue20]

Depth is a little overated in the Playoffs. It all comes down to your 2 or 3 stars and 3 or 4 good role players. Then having a good system who suits them, wich obviously demands compatible skillsets between your players.

Obviously is better to have a good deep 10 man rotation just in case, and to adjust to matchups or injuries, but to me it isn't the key to winning championships.

We need a real perimeter scoring and playmaking threat, that's really what we are lacking right now.

It's not just depth it's specific role players with various skills. What if you need a stretch big or a creative PG, or if Danny is struggling and you need a 3 who can hit a 3?

Having Matisse and Dwight and Shake off the bench is great but 2 of those guys lack scoring skills. If the matchup dictates you need a scoring punch from your bench, it would be nice to have the option to run any 8 or 9 man lineup you want every game.

Rather than being forced to rely on the same 8 guys.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Like i sayed, it's obviously better to be 10 man deep than relying on 8 players. It gives you more choices to adapt to specific matchups and it gives insurance in case of injuries or players slumps.

But it's not even close the key to winning a championship. Star power is the key. We are lacking there. Then having 3 o 4 good role players. Then the overall fit between those players. We have to get better in all of those areas first.

[youngcrev]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Morey is going to trade Maxey by the deadline. For who, I don't know. But I feel like Morey wants to "land the plane" and we are currently at our best right now. Creating a 4 "star" team with Ben, Joel, and Tobias playing better than any other point in their career feels like a no-brainer move for Morey.

I'm sticking with DeRozan as his target, but I could see a wildcard as we enter March.

"Oh, all I want is 3 pointers? Gimme Ben Simmons, Demar DeRozan and Joel Embiid! That'll show 'em!"

-Daryl Morey

I think the real allure is that at least a 20 ppg scorer or Ben Simmons will likely be on the court at all times throughout the game. That takes pressure off guys like Shake to produce with a group of non-scorers.

Additional bonus if we can keep a nice role player like Seth Curry.

Green, Maxey, Ferguson, and Poirer for DeRozan works. I'm not sure Maxey really adds much to the Spurs situation since they have a ton of young guards, but it also gives them value instead of letting DeRozan walk.

I also get the apprehension of doing this trade if they don't get some assurances from DeRozan that he'd re-sign.

I like DeRozan, but he's a tough sell next to Embiid and Simmons. What would really intrigue me would be if you brought him in to be an elite 6th man (if he'd buy into it). Then the defense and 3 point shooting would be less of an issue, and he'd be able to come in a control the ball. Also gives you an iso/PnR closing option.

[Negrodamus]

"Oh, all I want is 3 pointers? Gimme Ben Simmons, Demar DeRozan and Joel Embiid! That'll show 'em!"

-Daryl Morey

I think the real allure is that at least a 20 ppg scorer or Ben Simmons will likely be on the court at all times throughout the game. That takes pressure off guys like Shake to produce with a group of non-scorers.

Additional bonus if we can keep a nice role player like Seth Curry.

Green, Maxey, Ferguson, and Poirer for DeRozan works. I'm not sure Maxey really adds much to the Spurs situation since they have a ton of young guards, but it also gives them value instead of letting DeRozan walk.

I also get the apprehension of doing this trade if they don't get some assurances from DeRozan that he'd re-sign.

I like DeRozan, but he's a tough sell next to Embiid and Simmons. What would really intrigue me would be if you brought him in to be an elite 6th man (if he'd buy into it). Then the defense and 3 point shooting would be less of an issue, and he'd be able to come in a control the ball. Also gives you an iso/PnR closing option.

If you think his defense is going to be an issue, then sure, I can buy that concern. But we have seen a worse offensive star, Jimmy, work wonders next to those two because he, like DeMar, can create offense. That's the biggest missing piece on this team, not lack of 3 point shooting.

Watch on YouTube

The constant attacking of Joel (.657 FTr), Ben (.536 FTr), DeMar (.503 FTr), and Shake (.300 FTr) the entire game will wear down the opposing team, especially their big men. If DeAndre Jordan has 5 fouls in the 4th, Joel is going to absolutely cook the Nets down the stretch.

He's not James Harden or any "perfect" fit, but he makes a lot of sense to me.

[youngcrev]

I think the real allure is that at least a 20 ppg scorer or Ben Simmons will likely be on the court at all times throughout the game. That takes pressure off guys like Shake to produce with a group of non-scorers.

Additional bonus if we can keep a nice role player like Seth Curry.

Green, Maxey, Ferguson, and Poirer for DeRozan works. I'm not sure Maxey really adds much to the Spurs situation since they have a ton of young guards, but it also gives them value instead of letting DeRozan walk.

I also get the apprehension of doing this trade if they don't get some assurances from DeRozan that he'd re-sign.

I like DeRozan, but he's a tough sell next to Embiid and Simmons. What would really intrigue me would be if you brought him in to be an elite 6th man (if he'd buy into it). Then the defense and 3 point shooting would be less of an issue, and he'd be able to come in a control the ball. Also gives you an iso/PnR closing option.

If you think his defense is going to be an issue, then sure, I can buy that concern. But we have seen a worse offensive star, Jimmy, work wonders next to those two because he, like DeMar, can create offense. That's the biggest missing piece on this team, not lack of 3 point shooting.

Watch on YouTube

The constant attacking of Joel (.657 FTr), Ben (.536 FTr), DeMar (.503 FTr), and Shake (.300 FTr) the entire game will wear down the opposing team, especially their big men. If DeAndre Jordan has 5 fouls in the 4th, Joel is going to absolutely cook the Nets down the stretch.

He's not James Harden or any "perfect" fit, but he makes a lot of sense to me.

I get the pluses, the guy can get buckets, and has actually done a really good job of running the Spurs offense this year... But I don't think you can just brush off the spacing issue. I'm not saying the lack of primary creation isn't a bigger issue than shooting for the team, but you're fixing one while compounding another. Which is why the idea of having as a 6th man/closer intrigues me since it reduces the issue of him meshing with perfectly with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm not completely tossing away the idea, but a guy like Lowry would make far more sense for this team.

Also... is DeRozan even available? The Spurs are 16-12 and have Pop at the helm... Do we really think they're willing to take a step back?

[DCasey91]

What is all the bs about Butler being a worse offensive star? Lol it’s like people don’t want to remember or mention what Butler has done. Did no one watch him when we he played for us or last year in the Playoffs/finals or the past few years for that matter?

Derozan is closer to a SF version of Harris if anything.

Butler is a stud we had our closer.

[Negrodamus]

I like DeRozan, but he's a tough sell next to Embiid and Simmons. What would really intrigue me would be if you brought him in to be an elite 6th man (if he'd buy into it). Then the defense and 3 point shooting would be less of an issue, and he'd be able to come in a control the ball. Also gives you an iso/PnR closing option.

If you think his defense is going to be an issue, then sure, I can buy that concern. But we have seen a worse offensive star, Jimmy, work wonders next to those two because he, like DeMar, can create offense. That's the biggest missing piece on this team, not lack of 3 point shooting.

Watch on YouTube

The constant attacking of Joel (.657 FTr), Ben (.536 FTr), DeMar (.503 FTr), and Shake (.300 FTr) the entire game will wear down the opposing team, especially their big men. If DeAndre Jordan has 5 fouls in the 4th, Joel is going to absolutely cook the Nets down the stretch.

He's not James Harden or any "perfect" fit, but he makes a lot of sense to me.

I get the pluses, the guy can get buckets, and has actually done a really good job of running the Spurs offense this year... But I don't think you can just brush off the spacing issue. I'm not saying the lack of primary creation isn't a bigger issue than shooting for the team, but you're fixing one while compounding another. Which is why the idea of having as a 6th man/closer intrigues me since it reduces the issue of him meshing with perfectly with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm not completely tossing away the idea, but a guy like Lowry would make far more sense for this team.

Also... is DeRozan even available? The Spurs are 16-12 and have Pop at the helm... Do we really think they're willing to take a step back?

Could be right, but I think the Spurs likely have the foresight to move on from DeRozan before he bolts for a contender next year. Not to mention they have Derrick White, Keldon Johnson, Dejounte Murray, Devin Vassell, Lonnie Walker.... I mean, they should probably make a commitment to some these young guys since DeRozen, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, and Lyles all come off the books this offseason. They haven't really shown an inclination one way or the other when they have been forced to play a hand. Kawhi trade was an anomaly since he wanted out. They signed Aldridge to take over for Duncan and had some home grown talent for the next wave. It should be interesting to see what they do as the deadline approaches.

[stormi]

What is all the bs about Butler being a worse offensive star? Lol it’s like people don’t want to remember or mention what Butler has done. Did no on one watch him when we he played for us or last year in the finals or the past few years for that matter?

Derozan is closer to a SF version of Harris if anything.

Butler is a stud

Butler and Derozan are in a totally different category from Harris. You can run a playoff offense through the former two because they can: a) facilitators for others, b) get to the free throw line at high rates. That means they're shot creators not only for themselves but for those around them. Lowry is in the same boat (but with a considerably better outside shot). Demar is an offensive weapon, and his footwork is some of the best ever. He's anti Morey-ball though (like Jimmy) and loves to operate out of the midrange.

The analytics hate him, but I'd still love to bring Demar here. The Spurs have been winning games though, so whatever trade package would probably have to be substantial for Pop to consider throwing away crucial playoff experience for his kids. Or they could pull a Jerry West / Tobias Harris and sell high while simultaneously passing the torch.

[youngcrev]

If you think his defense is going to be an issue, then sure, I can buy that concern. But we have seen a worse offensive star, Jimmy, work wonders next to those two because he, like DeMar, can create offense. That's the biggest missing piece on this team, not lack of 3 point shooting.

Watch on YouTube

The constant attacking of Joel (.657 FTr), Ben (.536 FTr), DeMar (.503 FTr), and Shake (.300 FTr) the entire game will wear down the opposing team, especially their big men. If DeAndre Jordan has 5 fouls in the 4th, Joel is going to absolutely cook the Nets down the stretch.

He's not James Harden or any "perfect" fit, but he makes a lot of sense to me.

I get the pluses, the guy can get buckets, and has actually done a really good job of running the Spurs offense this year... But I don't think you can just brush off the spacing issue. I'm not saying the lack of primary creation isn't a bigger issue than shooting for the team, but you're fixing one while compounding another. Which is why the idea of having as a 6th man/closer intrigues me since it reduces the issue of him meshing with perfectly with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm not completely tossing away the idea, but a guy like Lowry would make far more sense for this team.

Also... is DeRozan even available? The Spurs are 16-12 and have Pop at the helm... Do we really think they're willing to take a step back?

Could be right, but I think the Spurs likely have the foresight to move on from DeRozan before he bolts for a contender next year. Not to mention they have Derrick White, Keldon Johnson, Dejounte Murray, Devin Vassell, Lonnie Walker.... I mean, they should probably make a commitment to some these young guys since DeRozen, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, and Lyles all come off the books this offseason. They haven't really shown an inclination one way or the other when they have been forced to play a hand. Kawhi trade was an anomaly since he wanted out. They signed Aldridge to take over for Duncan and had some home grown talent for the next wave. It should be interesting to see what they do as the deadline approaches.

Don't they have a reputation for never making in season deals?

Also, with all those guys you mentioned, I'm not sure why they'd give a damn about Maxey over continuing a playoff run.

On flip side, if they do start selling for some reason, I'd also have a ton of interest in Mills...

[DCasey91]

What is all the bs about Butler being a worse offensive star? Lol it’s like people don’t want to remember or mention what Butler has done. Did no on one watch him when we he played for us or last year in the finals or the past few years for that matter?

Derozan is closer to a SF version of Harris if anything.

Butler is a stud

Butler and Derozan are in a totally different category from Harris. You can run a playoff offense through the former two because they can: a) facilitators for others, b) get to the free throw line at high rates. That means they're shot creators not only for themselves but for those around them. Lowry is in the same boat (but with a considerably better outside shot). Demar is an offensive weapon, and his footwork is some of the best ever. He's anti Morey-ball though (like Jimmy) and loves to operate out of the midrange.

The analytics hate him, but I'd still love to bring Demar here. The Spurs have been winning games though, so whatever trade package would probably have to be substantial for Pop to consider throwing away crucial playoff experience for his kids. Or they could pull a Jerry West / Tobias Harris and sell high while simultaneously passing the torch.

I think there’s good reason for that:

Obv Jimmy is far superior offensively (Much better ballhandler, playmaker, passer, all round game).

It’s because of his shot to ppg conversion it isn’t very high at all on so so efficiency. That’s where the Harris comp comes in.
With others that score like him you can offset that by sheer assists/passing opportunities.

But yes Derozan’s playstyle works well in half court but the fit is more awkward then it was for Jimmy and not as good. Spurs can make it work because he’s really the only ball dominate handler. And also the Spurs are Spurs lol.

Since it’s the playoffs second unit makeups aren’t going to be a thing. I just don’t know how you scheme around Simmons/Embiid/Harris/Derozan. But if it works it’d work very well.

[Sixerscan]

I am a “no” on DDR

[Rastas]

Fournier
or
Mills

Forget the bigger more expensive names, they will probably require a Tobi dump.
Tobi I believe will be a highly valuable trade chip in the off season.

[stormi]

What is all the bs about Butler being a worse offensive star? Lol it’s like people don’t want to remember or mention what Butler has done. Did no on one watch him when we he played for us or last year in the finals or the past few years for that matter?

Derozan is closer to a SF version of Harris if anything.

Butler is a stud

Butler and Derozan are in a totally different category from Harris. You can run a playoff offense through the former two because they can: a) facilitators for others, b) get to the free throw line at high rates. That means they're shot creators not only for themselves but for those around them. Lowry is in the same boat (but with a considerably better outside shot). Demar is an offensive weapon, and his footwork is some of the best ever. He's anti Morey-ball though (like Jimmy) and loves to operate out of the midrange.

The analytics hate him, but I'd still love to bring Demar here. The Spurs have been winning games though, so whatever trade package would probably have to be substantial for Pop to consider throwing away crucial playoff experience for his kids. Or they could pull a Jerry West / Tobias Harris and sell high while simultaneously passing the torch.

I think there’s good reason for that:

Obv Jimmy is far superior offensively (Much better ballhandler, playmaker, passer, all round game).

It’s because of his shot to ppg conversion it isn’t very high at all on so so efficiency. That’s where the Harris comp comes in.
With others that score like him you can offset that by sheer assists/passing opportunities.

But yes Derozan’s playstyle works well in half court but the fit is more awkward then it was for Jimmy and not as good. Spurs can make it work because he’s really the only ball dominate handler. And also the Spurs are Spurs lol.

Since it’s the playoffs second unit makeups aren’t going to be a thing. I just don’t know how you scheme around Simmons/Embiid/Harris/Derozan. But if it works it’d work very well.

I would disagree. They're actually ridiculously similar offensively. Near equivalent ast/tov, both tremendous free throw shooters that get to the line with volume but don't shoot the three.

Over the past two seasons, (Jimmy being the alpha in Miami, Demar being the alpha in SA)

ORTG -> Jimmy (122 - 120) Demar
AST -> (6.5 - 5.9)
TOV -> (2.2 - 2.2)
OBPM -> (3.9 - 2.7)
FG% -> (44.9 - 52.1)
TS% -> (57.7 - 60.3)
FTR -> (66.3 - 44.8)
FT% -> (84.2 - 85.8)

Near identical. Jimmy being the more proficient passer and the superior foul drawer (best in the league), Demar being the better shooter and more efficient scorer. And the eye test supports that imo. Jimmy brings you so much more value on the other side of the ball that he puts himself on another tier from Demar, but for a defensive oriented team like us that play extremely awkward out of the halfcourt and beg for a confident ballhandler to control the tempo, playmake and get you unassisted buckets, Demar is one of the very best in the game.