Trade Talk (Part Six)

[Wolveswin]

So what thinking would you recommend then?

Trade Towns. Rebuild time.

I don’t think it’s time to go down that path. But when we do Rosas CANNOT be allowed to be the guy making that trade. If we land a top 3 pick, he also cannot be allowed to make that pick. He has proven he has zero ability to evaluate talent.

He was handed a future superstar when we landed #1. Ball was pretty much the consensus #1 by the draft evaluators out there and he’s turning into a superstar. I’m not going to even get into how bad an eval Dlo was.

I don’t think drafting Edwards over Ball (or Wiseman) was that much of an error. Draft is a crap shoot no doubt.

Biggest error is not trading the pick when it had max value. I am confident if we saw listed the trades he turned down we all would be disgusted. And way more disgusted than simply drafting Edwards vs. Ball.

[SmokeyPaw]

So what thinking would you recommend then?

Trade Towns. Rebuild time.

I don’t think it’s time to go down that path. But when we do Rosas CANNOT be allowed to be the guy making that trade. If we land a top 3 pick, he also cannot be allowed to make that pick. He has proven he has zero ability to evaluate talent.

He was handed a future superstar when we landed #1. Ball was pretty much the consensus #1 by the draft evaluators out there and he’s turning into a superstar. I’m not going to even get into how bad an eval Dlo was.

I dont know how Rosas would survive a Towns trade. Can you imagine that convo with Taylor? Its basically an admission of failure.

[Heimdal]

Rosas lost his job the moment he signed the Russell trade. It's just a slow death from there on.

[jpatrick]

Rosas lost his job the moment he signed the Russell trade. It's just a slow death from there on.

The way Rosas chased after Russell, he clearly thought he was Harden-like. An undervalued asset that could have superstar potential. He was soooo wrong and you’re right, that effectively ended his tenure here. Drafting Ball could have saved him somewhat, but he backed DLo as his PG. mistake after mistake.

[SO_MONEY]

Trade Towns. Rebuild time.

I don’t think it’s time to go down that path. But when we do Rosas CANNOT be allowed to be the guy making that trade. If we land a top 3 pick, he also cannot be allowed to make that pick. He has proven he has zero ability to evaluate talent.

He was handed a future superstar when we landed #1. Ball was pretty much the consensus #1 by the draft evaluators out there and he’s turning into a superstar. I’m not going to even get into how bad an eval Dlo was.

I dont know how Rosas would survive a Towns trade. Can you imagine that convo with Taylor? Its basically an admission of failure.

It might be, but it also shows managerial courage. People make mistakes, it is the ones who compound mistakes by refusing to admit they made them you really need to worry about. If such a deal were to happen Rosas job would rest with the short-term results of the trade. Did he hit on a player trade/draft? Did the team improve their record somehow? And so on. Trading Towns isn't going to cost him his job if it turns out to be the right move.

[Klomp]

I don’t think it’s time to go down that path. But when we do Rosas CANNOT be allowed to be the guy making that trade. If we land a top 3 pick, he also cannot be allowed to make that pick. He has proven he has zero ability to evaluate talent.

He was handed a future superstar when we landed #1. Ball was pretty much the consensus #1 by the draft evaluators out there and he’s turning into a superstar. I’m not going to even get into how bad an eval Dlo was.

I dont know how Rosas would survive a Towns trade. Can you imagine that convo with Taylor? Its basically an admission of failure.

It might be, but it also shows managerial courage. People make mistakes, it is the ones who compound mistakes by refusing to admit they made them you really need to worry about.

We can't say for 100% certainty that it was a mistake until you see what the team looks like in its full capacity. This is different from the Saunders situation because there were still coaching decisions to evaluate. Right now, we really have no idea what it will be like. Now obviously it won't be a title contender at full strength, but it still might not be a fireable offense at that point.

[SO_MONEY]

I dont know how Rosas would survive a Towns trade. Can you imagine that convo with Taylor? Its basically an admission of failure.

It might be, but it also shows managerial courage. People make mistakes, it is the ones who compound mistakes by refusing to admit they made them you really need to worry about.

We can't say for 100% certainty that it was a mistake until you see what the team looks like in its full capacity. This is different from the Saunders situation because there were still coaching decisions to evaluate. Right now, we really have no idea what it will be like. Now obviously it won't be a title contender at full strength, but it still might not be a fireable offense at that point.

I think we can tell DLo isn't helping this team and having Towns out there isn't going to change him. But that said I am not going to fire him for that move or that move alone. We wanted to move on from Wiggins, I am sure KAT was in people's ears and Glen was just as culpable. It didn't work out, DLo reverted. We can stick with it, but you are not then trading at the pinnacle of value and that is just as fireable. It is a catch-22 and Rosas is in that situation and he needs to go one way or the other and be right (or right enough) to keep his job short-term. And if the long-term doesn't work out and KAT leverages his way out, probably get fired for that as well.

He can try and make deals on the periphery and maybe that helps his job security, but I think the players we would trade probably don't get you much and he would need to luck into a result like finding a Beasley.

[NebWolvesFan]

I just hope we can see Russull-Towns-Beasley-Edwards play some games. I know it's easy to write stuff off because its the Timberwolves and every move carries the weight of previous history, but in games where the four played, the Wolves are 2-2, which includes a win at Utah. The two losses were an overtime loss to the Spurs in a game where Russell hit two clutch shots late and the Wolves led by 2 with 15 seconds left. If Saunders would have doubled DeRozen late or put a vet on him, the Wolves may have won. The other loss was classic Saunders in which they led by 12 early in the fourth and Ryan went to Ryan and Rubio in the backcourt and when the Grizzlies started their run, instead of bringing KAT back into the game, he brought Beasley back and played the three guards together. Memphis took advantage of Minnesota's small lineup and rallied to win.

I just want to see Minnesota's most-talented played play 20 games together. I'm tired of tired speculation, especially from a frustrated fan base.

There's really no deals to be made at the deadline, but with some clarity maybe there's some moves to be made this summer.

[Klomp]

I just want to see Minnesota's most-talented played play 20 games together. I'm tired of tired speculation, especially from a frustrated fan base.

There's really no deals to be made at the deadline, but with some clarity maybe there's some moves to be made this summer.

Well said.

Though I don't think we'll stand pat completely at the deadline. I'm hopeful to get at least a Davis trade or at biggest, a Rubio trade. These types of fringe deals may seem small in the immediate, but can pay dividends down the road if things are executed properly.

[TouchPassDario]

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Beasley
FOR
Wiseman
Walker (traded for asset 2022)
Dieng (expiring)
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Celtics 1st (top 8 protected)
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected) or Wolves 2nd
2022 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2024 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2025 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2027 Warriors 1st (top 3 protected)

Kemba-Dieng and Beasley-DLo are a wash. Basically zero value factoring in contracts in that lot.

So, KAT is worth that elite top-3 protected 1st GSW holds, and several other unprotected picks? Warriors aren’t that desperate.

[SO_MONEY]

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Beasley
FOR
Wiseman
Walker (traded for asset 2022)
Dieng (expiring)
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Celtics 1st (top 8 protected)
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected) or Wolves 2nd
2022 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2024 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2025 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2027 Warriors 1st (top 3 protected)

Kemba-Dieng and Beasley-DLo are a wash. Basically zero value factoring in contracts in that lot.

So, KAT is worth that elite top-3 protected 1st GSW holds, and several other unprotected picks? Warriors aren’t that desperate.

Good because MN probably isn't including Beasley in a Towns deal. The fact is GS doesn't have what it takes to get Towns.

[Jedzz]

Yeah, I think Beasley would be requested in a Gordon deal which would give me pause, but I could see a Rubio for Fournier swap discussed.

I don't see Orlando looking at Rubio.

Once Fultz went down, the Magic have sputtered. For once, it doesn't seem they are interested in chasing the playoffs (currently third worst in the Eastern Conference) while running Carter-Williams and the rookie Anthony at PG.

I just heard a Vucevic interview and he described the season as knocked off it's original course due to injuries but that his play is up and so is others because they are fighting still to get to the playoffs, still emboldened by the play in this season, and talked about how they have won quite a bit the past two weeks and plan to keep that going. He talked about how playing for something is much better than not playing for anything. He believes they have something to play for even if it isn't a finals trip.

[Jedzz]

Rosas lost his job the moment he signed the Russell trade. It's just a slow death from there on.

I don't think so. I think it was doable if they continued to build around that plan correctly and they didn't. I believe Rosas lost his head when the team won the #1 overall. The only way it was really going to work was for him to trade down, then make picks that bolster the weak spots of the team both positionally and by bringing in reliable shooting skill. The team lacked size from forward positions, shooting, and two way capable players of game IQ. None of these were really addressed accept a late flyer on McDaniels who though has shown a lot alreaddy, is still not a ready to flourish product yet. If he was going to make a trade, it needed to be for a forward vet with a usable shot and defense. Many were on the Gordon idea so there was one, but not the only option. He had the Towns/Dlo thing to foster. He had Beasley for finally helping improved shooting from at least one player. There was a path to finish this.

Drafting a Harden-lite and trading for Rubio just wasn't the path to finish what they started at the last trade deadline. Drafting LaMello, while maybe making some more happy also wouldn't have been the path to making this all work the best. But some people didn't want to make it work. They wanted to be right about their former takes on Dlo more than to see the Timberwolves start winning more and take a step forward. This is the bed the Dlo trade started. You don't make that move and then not commit to it. That's the mistake.

[shrink]

But some people didn't want to make it work. They wanted to be right about their former takes on Dlo more than to see the Timberwolves start winning more and take a step forward.

It’s sad you think that, but these emotional sideswipe insults you can’t keep from posting ruins your overall content.

Everybody here wants the Wolves to succeed, and I don’t think a single poster here wouldn’t love to be proven wrong about your personal heroes if it meant more success for the team we all love.

You could be a good poster, but you don’t want to be. You’re too in love with sticking in unnecessary jabs to cause fights.

[Jedzz]

But some people didn't want to make it work. They wanted to be right about their former takes on Dlo more than to see the Timberwolves start winning more and take a step forward.

It’s sad you think that, but these emotional sideswipe insults you can’t keep from posting ruins your overall content.

Everybody here wants the Wolves to succeed, and I don’t think a single poster here wouldn’t love to be proven wrong about your personal heroes if it meant more success for the team we all love.

You could be a good poster, but you don’t want to be. You’re too in love with sticking in unnecessary jabs to cause fights.

I distinctly remember learning how to post here from you. So congrats.

But in this case I can speak objectively as usual since I never wanted Dlo added to this team. Yet I don't take what it costed to get him lightly, what he costs to the cap lightly, or the dual reasons they did it lightly. As the rest of my post pointed out, they could have stayed with that plan instead of overlooking it with decisions this offseason and did not. I realize you don't want to talk about those Pobo/GM failures, even here on realGM. You want to focus on what you think someone is saying with one line out of a longer post. Yet I don't remember posting anything about personal heros or mentioning you. What was it you once said about injecting words never said, and now unnecessary jabs and emotions? I'm not here for the drama. I said what I said because it happens to be the truth as I see it about Rosas, and the truth as I see it from many posts here.

I'm waiting for the Edwards trade.

[Wolveswin]

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Beasley
FOR
Wiseman
Walker (traded for asset 2022)
Dieng (expiring)
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Celtics 1st (top 8 protected)
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected) or Wolves 2nd
2022 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2024 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2025 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2027 Warriors 1st (top 3 protected)

Kemba-Dieng and Beasley-DLo are a wash. Basically zero value factoring in contracts in that lot.

So, KAT is worth that elite top-3 protected 1st GSW holds, and several other unprotected picks? Warriors aren’t that desperate.

Yes he is. And you are not breaking down the trade correctly. Warriors already owe a future 1st to Grizzlies. Here it is routed to Wolves for Beasley. Warriors only trade 2 new 1sts and 2nd to go along with Wolves return of pick.

[shrink]

Celtics need to make changes, and even though he is playing well lately, Kemba is probably the big piece of matching salary they would want to send out, adding lots of value to bring in a third star.

Most teams wouldn’t want Kemba. At age 30 and making $36.0 and $37.6 the next two years, he is clearly a very negative contract. I saw a Celtics poster on the T&T board run a larger trade through us, using D’Angelo Russell. Setting aside KAT’s opinion (no one truly knows if he could stop this deal), would you make this trade?

MIN GETS: Kemba Walker
MIN GIVES: Juancho and DLo

Juancho make $7 mil next year, the following season is unguaranteed. Russell makes $30 and $31.4 the next two years. The deal would be salary-neutral this year and next, and cost us about $6 mil more in 22-23. There is also the possibility we could get a buyout.

[Jedzz]

Might as well send them JMac as well. Can't have two tiny players with a bunch of fans and the Pobo that disrespects them the same time. Kemba time. Yet, they probably end up trading Towns to Celtics, it's happened before. So send Both Dlo and Towns to Celtics. The only problem? Celtics don't have a bunch of extra FRPs anymore, only their own. So every other Celtic FRP for the next 6 years and shur they can have them. They also have some hefty trade exceptions so we shouldn't have to take back too much junk. I might tell them to keep Kemba too. The Rubiobobos can be happy with him as the only true pg.

[shrink]

Might as well send them JMac as well. Can't have two tiny players with a bunch of fans and the Pobo that disrespects them the same time. Kemba time. Yet, they probably end up trading Towns to Celtics, it's happened before. So send Both Dlo and Towns to Celtics. The only problem? Celtics don't have a bunch of extra FRPs anymore, only their own. So every other Celtic FRP for the next 6 years and shur they can have them. They also have some hefty trade exceptions so we shouldn't have to take back too much junk. I might tell them to keep Kemba too. The Rubiobobos can be happy with him as the only true pg.

Thanks for yet another emotional shot at the MIN fans, Jedz. Every post has to have some insult about fans that don’t love the same players you love. Nobody even mentioned your precious JMac, Rubiobobos or Towns, Grow up. People are allowed to have their own opinions - they just should be honest about what they post.

Anyone want to give a realistic answer on what they think Rosas might do? A couple BOS posters think that Ainge might try routing Kemba through MIN using Russell. Do you think that’s realistic?

[Jedzz]

Might as well send them JMac as well. Can't have two tiny players with a bunch of fans and the Pobo that disrespects them the same time. Kemba time. Yet, they probably end up trading Towns to Celtics, it's happened before. So send Both Dlo and Towns to Celtics. The only problem? Celtics don't have a bunch of extra FRPs anymore, only their own. So every other Celtic FRP for the next 6 years and shur they can have them. They also have some hefty trade exceptions so we shouldn't have to take back too much junk. I might tell them to keep Kemba too. The Rubiobobos can be happy with him as the only true pg.

Thanks for yet another emotional shot at the MIN fans, Jedz. Every post has to have some insult about fans that don’t love the same players you love. Nobody even mentioned your precious JMac, Rubiobobos or Towns, Grow up. People are allowed to have their own opinions - they just should be honest about what they post.

Anyone want to give a realistic answer on what they think Rosas might do? A couple BOS posters think that Ainge might try routing Kemba through MIN using Russell. Do you think that’s realistic?

I don't frankly care what you think about how I am posting shrink. I'm trying to offer a semi real option while saying no to this Kemba thought.

Feverish Rubio backers that will subvert the teams chances of winning just to see the return of him as the sole leading starter here are a real thing. They have a nickname and I didn't give it to them. Rubiobos or Rubiobobos. It's a nick of affection, that's all. Please stop crying about it.

Ainge can suck it with his Kemba 34/yr contract, this team doesn't need him and it wouldn't make Rubiobobos happy to have him taking over infront of Rubio because of Kembas contract. There is just no point in it.

Boston has 28.5, 4.8, and 2.5 million exceptions based on hayward, kanter, poirier. If they want Dlo,, send us Smart and a pick, they can eat Kemba's deal and buy him out.

I doubt they want Dlo, they would however maybe want Towns. So send them the pair if that makes you happy, but Boston just doesn't have the pick resources or worthy exchange assetts if you ask me. So without a third party all I can see is Smart on his 12 million deal to backup Rubio here, then Boston's picks and use all their TPEs so we dont' get strapped with Kemba's deal. Afterall, we already have JMac for pennies. We don't need another tiny PG for people to blame about defense all day. That's why he was brought up.