Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - No Politics

[raferfenix]

I’m not trading Donte unless we are seriously happy with the return.

It might take him another season or two to put it all together. But his development is looking way encouraging, and his defensive energy is especially valuable with how our current team is constructed.

Giannis signing the supermax affords us a modicum of patience. Trading Donte (as part of a package) for Rozier or Oladipo or the like feels like it might be a short sighted risk with limited potential reward — at least if we don’t see that kind of acquisition as the difference btw winning a ring or not.

[skones]

Gotta love a guy calling people "penny pinching armchair GMs" thinking his version of armchair GM is sooooo much superior. Some of us just believe in forward thinking and we're at a crossroads. It's not as if we have 5 more years of Giannis in our back pocket right now and an opportunity to actually re-tool with that safety blanket, but sure, let's double down on a core that's A) not getting better and B) not getting it done and C) Only getting older! Let's just push it back until our players are no longer desirable AND we're still without the draft capital owed to New Orleans! Seems smart!

There's a scenario where we double down, Middleton and Holiday age out, and we've got no options to improve ourselves in order to remain competitive throughout the duration of the Giannis super max. It's a VERY real possibility, and it's an avoidable thing.

[tski1972]

Ersan and DJW for Nance Jr.


.....oh wait.

[CharityStripe34]

Trading Holiday would be a very moronic, very Bucks move.

As quiet as his game was tonight, for being rusty, he still made great plays and showed great defensive awareness when it mattered. That swing to the corner in the clutch was pinpoint and money. And having a fringe All-Star level talent on the team to assume ball-handling duties frees up Gianni to be Super PF roaming the mid-range and seeking out mismatches. It allows him and Khris to be finishers. It also gives this team two A-plus defenders as well, where you shouldn't have to double.

There aren't may trios in the entire NBA more talented than Freak/Midds/Holiday. Glad to have him back and hoping within the week he gets his endurance back and can get into the mix with Freak and Khris, especially Gianni as he's cresting nicely.

[DrWood]

Middleton wasn't worth his max deal, maybe some bottom feeder would have offered the same contract though. 5/150 was his worth.

Unless you figure he's about to go in the toilet, you are wrong. He's deserved his pay last year and this.

Jrue is not worth a max deal. He's at the end of his prime and he's not playing like he deserves one. Think he's worth 4/100 max on the open market. Personally, I wouldn't pay him more than 4/90 with a team option on the last year. Ideally we sign him for 2/50 and trade either him or Middleton for better role players if this roster doesn't work out this/next season. I'm tired of handing out 3-4 year contracts to retain all of our veterans. It's why were in such a terrible spot to begin with. Giving a max to Jrue pretty much means we have to trade Middleton.

He'd get a lot more than that from any intelligent GM with the money to spend.

Yeah, he wasn't worth that contract when it was offered to him. We got lucky that he improved enough to earn his pay last season and he's doing the same so far this season. But that's at $30M/$33M per, the max he should be paid. Next season he makes 35, then 38, then 40. He's not worth those numbers at his current level, especially given his playoff performances. He's not a #1 on any seriously contending team, but he's going to be paid like it.

If you think Jrue is getting a lot more than 4/100 from any intelligent GM with money to spend, when he'll be 31-34 years old, you are not thinking intelligently about it. If we pay him that and keep Middleton we're ****. So we'd be trading Middleton in that scenario.

He was better than Tobes, and Tobes got paid more.

[raferfenix]

An absolutely elite defender like Holiday makes small ball lineups with Giannis even more workable.

BroLo looking cooked might accelerate this process. But Giannis turning into a Celtics-era KG 5 seems inevitable at some point considering the direction the league has been moving.

I think we just pay Jrue what it takes to keep him long term. For that matter I could see the contours of a deal being agreed to before we even acquired him.

[Wisky4life]

I'm still on the Lopez and Wilson for cap space move. Unless something comes out of the woodwork for a great deal. These are the only 2 I'd look to be moving.

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[MickeyDavis]

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[DrWood]

There's a scenario where we double down, Middleton and Holiday age out, and we've got no options to improve ourselves in order to remain competitive throughout the duration of the Giannis super max. It's a VERY real possibility, and it's an avoidable thing.

I'm not sure it's avoidable, unless Middleton and Holiday stay at a plateau for the length of their contract*. Then you just hope that there's a championship somewhere in there.

*Or if a few of our (rare, low) draft picks become solid rotational players or more.

** Or if we find a really stupid trading partner, or a trash for trash trade ends up with a rejuvenated older player on a bad contract.

[skones]

I'm still on the Lopez and Wilson for cap space move. Unless something comes out of the woodwork for a great deal. These are the only 2 I'd look to be moving.

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These two cannot be dealt for "cap space." Dumping them doesn't do that.

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[skones]

There's a scenario where we double down, Middleton and Holiday age out, and we've got no options to improve ourselves in order to remain competitive throughout the duration of the Giannis super max. It's a VERY real possibility, and it's an avoidable thing.

I'm not sure it's avoidable, unless Middleton and Holiday stay at a plateau for the length of their contract*. Then you just hope that there's a championship somewhere in there.

*Or if a few of our (rare, low) draft picks become solid rotational players or more.

** Or if we find a really stupid trading partner, or a trash for trash trade ends up with a rejuvenated older player on a bad contract.

It's very avoidable and it means cutting bait this summer.

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[emunney]

There's a scenario where we double down, Middleton and Holiday age out, and we've got no options to improve ourselves in order to remain competitive throughout the duration of the Giannis super max. It's a VERY real possibility, and it's an avoidable thing.

I'm not sure it's avoidable, unless Middleton and Holiday stay at a plateau for the length of their contract*. Then you just hope that there's a championship somewhere in there.

*Or if a few of our (rare, low) draft picks become solid rotational players or more.

** Or if we find a really stupid trading partner, or a trash for trash trade ends up with a rejuvenated older player on a bad contract.

It's very avoidable and it means cutting bait this summer.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using RealGM mobile app

If you want to move forward without Jrue, isn't now the time to do it? Why wait until he's an unrestricted free agent?

IMO there are better ways to retool, and the sunk cost fallacy only applies to Jrue if you think the alternative of moving forward without him is better than paying him. I don't. I think if you let him walk, you're blowing a huge hole in your roster and you will not recover from it.

[skones]

If you want to move forward without Jrue, isn't now the time to do it? Why wait until he's an unrestricted free agent?

IMO there are better ways to retool, and the sunk cost fallacy only applies to Jrue if you think the alternative of moving forward without him is better than paying him. I don't. I think if you let him walk, you're blowing a huge hole in your roster and you will not recover from it.

I would have never made the deal for Jrue in the first place. With that being said, I see NO way they deal him without seeing this thing through. Like I've said in other threads, this is Horst's last stand. I sure as hell would be kicking the tires on the trade market, but it's not a reality of the situation so it's not really worth discussin.

I think the S&T market for Jrue will offer opportunities. Holiday isn't the only one I'd be looking to deal. I'd be floating Middleton as well. I'd be making an effort to acquire a mixture of unspectacular but solid vets and young pieces to remain competitive until long term age appropriate consolidation moves ultimately present themselves, I think teams like Miami and Boston have provided the blueprint for this.

[emunney]

If you want to move forward without Jrue, isn't now the time to do it? Why wait until he's an unrestricted free agent?

IMO there are better ways to retool, and the sunk cost fallacy only applies to Jrue if you think the alternative of moving forward without him is better than paying him. I don't. I think if you let him walk, you're blowing a huge hole in your roster and you will not recover from it.

I would have never made the deal for Jrue in the first place. With that being said, I see NO way they deal him without seeing this thing through. Like I've said in other threads, this is Horst's last stand. I sure as hell would be kicking the tires on the trade market, but it's not a reality of the situation so it's not really worth discussin.

I think the S&T market for Jrue will offer opportunities. Holiday isn't the only one I'd be looking to deal. I'd be floating Middleton as well. I'd be making an effort to acquire a mixture of unspectacular but solid vets and young pieces to remain competitive until long term age appropriate consolidation moves ultimately present themselves, I think teams like Miami and Boston have provided the blueprint for this.

I agree with your first point. I think the trade was a mistake. We just disagree on which path forward would compound that mistake.

This isn't meant to be a gotcha, and I genuinely think it's more an interesting ancillary to this conversation than like directly germane -- ultimately I think it supports both our positions equally -- but Boston and Miami were both pushing hard for Jrue.

[paulpressey25]

I think the S&T market for Jrue will offer opportunities.

Need some examples of where sign and trades brought back similar value players. I think you have to go back to the Jennings for Knight swap. Few S&T's get you more than a late first or two. Maybe you get DeAngelo Russell for Durant, but that type of lopsided talent swap is your best case.

No one is going to S&T us quality players or draft picks on par with Jrue's value on the court. The trade was made, it was an ill advised overpay by Lasry. But at this point we're all in with him, and $20 or $30 million extra on a contract won't make a difference.

[StickeeFingaz]

Any interest in Austin Rivers to fill a guard spot off the bench? Saw some reports he might be done in NY.

[Prez]

Any interest in Austin Rivers to fill a guard spot off the bench? Saw some reports he might be done in NY.

I’ve seen almost no Knicks basketball but I’d still rather have him than Augustin.

[ShootingtheJ]

With the way Lebron and Paul are struggling with their age, I can see why some are petrified of giving Jrue a long term deal. Science just hasn't shown us a way to train to extend these players careers. We'd have to have some wizardly trainer with a mystical name like Suki to pull off something like this.

[skones]

If you want to move forward without Jrue, isn't now the time to do it? Why wait until he's an unrestricted free agent?

IMO there are better ways to retool, and the sunk cost fallacy only applies to Jrue if you think the alternative of moving forward without him is better than paying him. I don't. I think if you let him walk, you're blowing a huge hole in your roster and you will not recover from it.

I would have never made the deal for Jrue in the first place. With that being said, I see NO way they deal him without seeing this thing through. Like I've said in other threads, this is Horst's last stand. I sure as hell would be kicking the tires on the trade market, but it's not a reality of the situation so it's not really worth discussin.

I think the S&T market for Jrue will offer opportunities. Holiday isn't the only one I'd be looking to deal. I'd be floating Middleton as well. I'd be making an effort to acquire a mixture of unspectacular but solid vets and young pieces to remain competitive until long term age appropriate consolidation moves ultimately present themselves, I think teams like Miami and Boston have provided the blueprint for this.

I agree with your first point. I think the trade was a mistake. We just disagree on which path forward would compound that mistake.

This isn't meant to be a gotcha, and I genuinely think it's more an interesting ancillary to this conversation than like directly germane -- ultimately I think it supports both our positions equally -- but Boston and Miami were both pushing hard for Jrue.

I wasn't speaking of the Boston and Miami blueprint as anything to do with Jrue, just that they've both operated this way with their franchises for some time. Specifically Boston from 14-15 and Miami post Lebron. We have Giannis. Build in those ways and we'll remain highly competitive with maneuverability.

[skones]

I think the S&T market for Jrue will offer opportunities.

Need some examples of where sign and trades brought back similar value players. I think you have to go back to the Jennings for Knight swap. Few S&T's get you more than a late first or two. Maybe you get DeAngelo Russell for Durant, but that type of lopsided talent swap is your best case.

No one is going to S&T us quality players or draft picks on par with Jrue's value on the court. The trade was made, it was an ill advised overpay by Lasry. But at this point we're all in with him, and $20 or $30 million extra on a contract won't make a difference.

I think Dallas deciding Porzingis isn't it has interesting no-doubter home run potential albeit risk attached. I think Denver has a lot of intriguing young pieces they could be willing to move in order to push further into contention too.

I want to re-work this entire roster around Giannis when this thing fails this spring. We didn't get it done during our window. Time to re-stock the cupboard.