Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[gambitx777]

Why on earth would the pacers trade turner for that or anyone when they are about to get lavert back and be a legit top 3-5 team in the east and potentially be on par or just under ok Philly and bkn

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[Dat2U]

Try reading with your brain turned on, Nat. I'm sure you can do it. Here's what I wrote:

"Trade Bryant, Brown & Bonga for Myles Turner, & we have 4 players for $117m (i.e. next year). Add our R1 pick, & it's 5 players for @$122m."

All we'd need was 10 more players to fill out the roster. &, given a tax line somewhere around $136m, we'd have $14m to pay them with. Let's see... that's an average of $1.4m each.

& what was my next sentence? Oh yeah... "That's no way to build this or any team."

Since you find that laughable, why don't you explain how you'd go about making it work, ok?

It's laughable that you think you need 15 good players to fill out a basketball team. Sure that's good goal to shoot for but the very best teams are top heavy. You can find examples like Toronto, Dallas or Detroit, where there was a deep roster with good synergy but you'll find plenty of other examples where teams couldn't put 5 quality players on the floor at once but their top 2 were so good, they could do all the heavy lifting.

[payitforward]

Of course, you don't need 15 good players! But... you do need 15 players. Moreover, comparing us to "the very best teams" is pointless -- we don't have Kevin Durant & James Harden making $40m+, we don't have LeBron or Steph making $40m+. We have Russell Westbrook.

Post-trade, our roster next year would be: Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal, Myles Turner, Davis Bertans, Rui Hachimura, Deni Avdija, & our R1 pick -- 8 players -- for something over $126m.

We have about $11m, maybe $12m, to fill out the team. How would we do it?

Well, we need a back-up PG, so let's assume we can re-sign Raul Neto -- he's having a good year & isn't going to be available for $1.6m. Let's say he costs only $2m. We need a backup Center too -- some of you have suggested retaining Wagner at @$3m a year. Let's pencil that in. We also need a backup 2-3. No way we'll do better for reasonable $$ than Garrison Mathews at $3m.

I don't think we'd find 3 better players for $8m -- but, feel free to suggest alternatives.

Ok... so now we're at 11 players for $134m. We need 4 more guys. Let's assume along with Dat that we have all our "heavy-lifting" guys. We can buy a R2 pick, promote Cassius Winston, pick up Gill's option, & add someone off the waiver wire. Probably can't do better than that, right?

Obviously, we're in the luxury tax. But, who cares? After all... we are contending for a title! Right?

Oh... wait a minute... that's pretty much this year's team -- with Myles Turner starting at Center instead of Thomas Bryant.

Turner over Bryant is a significant defensive upgrade at the 5. No question about it.
Turner over Bryant is a significant offensive downgrade at the 5. No question about it.

But, let's assume that overall it's an upgrade -- i.e. a bigger positive step on defense than the negative step on offense.

We're not contending for a title after this trade. Not this year if we make the trade tomorrow. Not next year when Westbrook will be 35 -- 1 year older than this year. & not in '22-23 when, at 36 -- with no doubt substantially further downgraded capabilities -- Russ will be earning close to $50m.

Sorry, "that's not a way to build this or any team."

[payitforward]

Why on earth would the pacers trade turner for that...

"That" being Brown, Bryant & Bonga.

It's a good question. I'm not as high on Myles Turner as most others, but Thomas Bryant has a torn ACL, & both Brown & Bonga are playing far worse than they did last year.

If I'm running Indy, & Tommy Sheppard calls me to say "I have to have Myles Turner, because the geniuses on some message board think he's a great player," I'm holding out for more.

I think we need to give Indy our 2021 R1 pick plus those guys, don't you? I mean... we're already terrific: 6-1 in our last 7 games. Just imagine how much better we'd be with Myles Turner!! We're likely to wind up with one of those useless picks in the 20s, right?

[gambitx777]

Yeah but if you're Indy and you're right there being a true contender in the east with lavert comes back. I don't know if I trade turner at all. I less bradley beal or someone high level is the target.

Why on earth would the pacers trade turner for that...

"That" being Brown, Bryant & Bonga.

It's a good question. I'm not as high on Myles Turner as most others, but Thomas Bryant has a torn ACL, & both Brown & Bonga are playing far worse than they did last year.

If I'm running Indy, & Tommy Sheppard calls me to say "I have to have Myles Turner, because the geniuses on some message board think he's a great player," I'm holding out for more.

I think we need to give Indy our 2021 R1 pick plus those guys, don't you? I mean... we're already terrific: 6-1 in our last 7 games. Just imagine how much better we'd be with Myles Turner!! We're likely to wind up with one of those useless picks in the 20s, right?

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[NatP4]

Westbrook magically turns 35 next year, interesting.

I guess that would change things

[payitforward]

Sorry, should have used green font for the last couple of paragraphs. Obviously, we're not trading our '21 R1 pick, & obviously Indy isn't trading Turner for the 3 B's, all of whom are at their lowest trade value. Just as, equally obviously, we can't add Turner's salary with Davis on our team.

Bertans for Turner I would do in a minute, however. But, I doubt Indy goes for that.

[payitforward]

Westbrook magically turns 35 next year, interesting.

I guess that would change things

Whoa, kinda mean of me to add 2 years to Russ's age. Especially when he's playing better. Don't want to discourage him!

[pcbothwel]

This is a weird discussion.
1) Turner would be an upgrade over Bryant given what we've seen so far
2) Adding him (With Brown, Bryant, Filler) going out is actually feasible financially (5-7M over). Why? We can go into the tax in the offseason, and then see how the team performs. If we look great, keep it and pay the tax. If we dont, move Bertans for rebuild pieces and cut salary....
However.
3) That package isnt good enough for Turner, and the price we would have to pay (along with his salary) would not get us over the hump.
4) EVEN IF we wanted to do this. Why does Indy? They are making a playoff run and their ONLY weakness right now (Other than a real Star) is the off guard from Brogdan and wing depth. But they Lamb just got back and looks great, Levert will be coming back, and TJ Warren will be coming back.

Its a terrible fit all around. Lets move on to the next thing.

[payitforward]

Great idea -- who is the next guy I can make 2 years older than he is?

[youngWizzy]

This is a weird discussion.
1) Turner would be an upgrade over Bryant given what we've seen so far
2) Adding him (With Brown, Bryant, Filler) going out is actually feasible financially (5-7M over). Why? We can go into the tax in the offseason, and then see how the team performs. If we look great, keep it and pay the tax. If we dont, move Bertans for rebuild pieces and cut salary....
However.
3) That package isnt good enough for Turner, and the price we would have to pay (along with his salary) would not get us over the hump.
4) EVEN IF we wanted to do this. Why does Indy? They are making a playoff run and their ONLY weakness right now (Other than a real Star) is the off guard from Brogdan and wing depth. But they Lamb just got back and looks great, Levert will be coming back, and TJ Warren will be coming back.

Its a terrible fit all around. Lets move on to the next thing.

I really don't think money should be allocated to the Center position in today's NBA. I'd rather have Lopez/Bryant/Len on their deals than give Turner the big dollars. You can go ahead and find a wing or other shooters with that money.

[payitforward]

I agree -- make them work for food & shelter!

[NatP4]

That Robert Williams guy looked good tonight. Do the thing, Tommy.

[Dark Faze]

Sell high. Right now. Beal for Oubre, Wiseman, picks. Bertans to a team that needs shooting.

Can there honestly be any doubt that it’s what Masai would do?

[gambitx777]

Hi own track record he traded for kawi when they had no business being contenders at all with no assurances that he would stay. Won a chip lost kawi and kept competing. Sometimes you just gotta try. I'm all for trading Bertans but beal naw let give this a go .

Sell high. Right now. Beal for Oubre, Wiseman, picks. Bertans to a team that needs shooting.

Can there honestly be any doubt that it’s what Masai would do?

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[nate33]

Sell high. Right now. Beal for Oubre, Wiseman, picks. Bertans to a team that needs shooting.

Can there honestly be any doubt that it’s what Masai would do?

I am not trading Beal unless I'm certain I'm getting back a top 4 pick plus a lot more stuff. And if he signs an extension or opts into his player option year, I'm not trading him at all.

[payitforward]

I'm with nate on this: it's just too much fun to watch Brad in a Wizards uni!

Now... there is always some deal which is just too good to turn down. But, until we see one of those I don't put him on the market.

One thing for sure: if I see the names "Oubre" & "Wiseman" I turn my back & walk the other way. Wiseman may turn out to be terrific, but he's no sure thing. Oubre is just a guy.

[Dat2U]

Sell high. Right now. Beal for Oubre, Wiseman, picks. Bertans to a team that needs shooting.

Can there honestly be any doubt that it’s what Masai would do?

I'd rather keep Beal then take some upside plays that will never come close to being as good.

[Dat2U]

This is a weird discussion.
1) Turner would be an upgrade over Bryant given what we've seen so far
2) Adding him (With Brown, Bryant, Filler) going out is actually feasible financially (5-7M over). Why? We can go into the tax in the offseason, and then see how the team performs. If we look great, keep it and pay the tax. If we dont, move Bertans for rebuild pieces and cut salary....
However.
3) That package isnt good enough for Turner, and the price we would have to pay (along with his salary) would not get us over the hump.
4) EVEN IF we wanted to do this. Why does Indy? They are making a playoff run and their ONLY weakness right now (Other than a real Star) is the off guard from Brogdan and wing depth. But they Lamb just got back and looks great, Levert will be coming back, and TJ Warren will be coming back.

Its a terrible fit all around. Lets move on to the next thing.

I really don't think money should be allocated to the Center position in today's NBA. I'd rather have Lopez/Bryant/Len on their deals than give Turner the big dollars. You can go ahead and find a wing or other shooters with that money.

Not saying Turner is the answer to all our problems but certainly Lopez/Bryant/Len are not a solution. Our success recently is in spite of them. It's fools gold to think you can win consistently with that group.

[NatP4]

I don’t think we are getting the young athletic rim protecting big in this years draft. After Mobley, there’s a massive drop off.

It will have to be through trades/signing