So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[sixers hoops]

Well, not a "traditional PF" but if we play the bucks for example, you're forced to put ben and joel on brook/giannis, with Harris or a real pf on the team you could switch that and put Harris on Lopez and disrupt jrue with Ben on Him.

It give you more options as far as match ups and defense goes.

The same goes for the Nets when they go small, Ben would be forced to cover one of Jeff Green/KD because Joel doesn't like to come out of the paint, and still we would have problem covering that line up. Ben normallywould be tasked to cover KD naturally, but i think you can disrupt more of their offense by putting him on Harden.


It doesn't even have to be Harris, you need another big guy to throw around and cover stretch guys and to do it for you as well.Specially if we're gonna trade Green AND Harris like in that trade i answered to

Tobias’s best position defensively is power forward, and he has been defending okay this year. He is a little undersized, but usually holds serve. In a similar situation against Toronto in the playoffs, they put Harris on Gasol and he was fine. If he were completely overmatched, Mike Scott is an option, but I wouldn’t mind seeing a better backup four. However, with Danny Green, Embiid, Thybulle, and Ben in the regular rotation, Tobias’s average defense isn’t my biggest concern.

[Kobblehead]

Maybe that is an overpay. I'm a Maxey fan too. The point is Seth is not a starter but a decent bench player. We need an upgrade there. Fournier is a great fit for us. He's a solid shooter and got better size at the 2.

He's better than Curry, but not worth the cost of acquisition, IMO.

Ultimately, I just don't think Fournier is all that impactful or good of a basketball player. I think his scoring production in Orlando over the last 5+ years is extremely bloated and fake. They just run a ton of offense for him, he doesn't create much off the dribble.

If we're going to find a Curry replacement, I think it probably comes by way of Milton. And then we find a Milton replacement through small scale trade (Delon Wright or Cory Joseph, for instance).

[zaz102]

Maybe that is an overpay. I'm a Maxey fan too. The point is Seth is not a starter but a decent bench player. We need an upgrade there. Fournier is a great fit for us. He's a solid shooter and got better size at the 2.

He's better than Curry, but not worth the cost of acquisition, IMO.

Ultimately, I just don't think Fournier is all that impactful or good of a basketball player. I think his scoring production in Orlando over the last 5+ years is extremely bloated and fake. They just run a ton of offense for him, he doesn't create much off the dribble.

If we're going to find a Curry replacement, I think it probably comes by way of Milton. And then we find a Milton replacement through small scale trade (Delon Wright or Cory Joseph, for instance).

This brings up a topic for debate and curious how this shakes out (no pun intended). I was thinking that Thybulle is the most likely to be traded for a starting level G/F.

[Kobblehead]

Given that Delon Wright is also defensively excellent and under contract this year and the next, I could see them considering using Thybulle in a package to acquire him.

For whatever reason, Thybulle's jumper has been complete garbage and there appears to be no path visible where he becomes offensively competent.

[76ciology]

Kobble,

What makes you think Maxey is special?

I feel like there’s another guy like him in every draft. He’s just trained to be exactly what the modern PG in the league is but I find him to have no separation from average to above average guards to star guards. I personally see a lot of Jeff Teague in him.

A peak Jeff Teague or a peak Jrue is nowhere near as what we need right now. We need one of those 20+ppg scorer. Someone like Kyrie but is more a winning player and plays more defense.

*another disclaimer: i dont hate maxey, im just trying to see things objectively

[51X3RF4N]

Kobble,

What makes you think Maxey is special?

I feel like there’s another guy like him in every draft. He’s just trained to be exactly what the modern PG in the league is but I find him to have no separation from average to above average guards to star guards. I personally see a lot of Jeff Teague in him.

A peak Jeff Teague or a peak Jrue is nowhere near as what we need right now. We need one of those 20+ppg scorer. Someone like Kyrie but is more a winning player and plays more defense.

*another disclaimer: i dont hate maxey, im just trying to see things objectively

I don't know if I'd say Maxey is special necessarily, but even if he only becomes a role player in due time, he would be playing a critical role next to our 3 stars, and a role none of them possess the ability to do.

If Maxey can be an above average defender (I personally think he can) while also having an average outside shot (he needs to improve this) and the ability to create half court offense off the dribble, get to the line and get buckets, on a rookie contract then I would be hard pressed to include him in any deals that don't have a rather significant impact on the chances of winning a ring.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[76ciology]

Kobble,

What makes you think Maxey is special?

I feel like there’s another guy like him in every draft. He’s just trained to be exactly what the modern PG in the league is but I find him to have no separation from average to above average guards to star guards. I personally see a lot of Jeff Teague in him.

A peak Jeff Teague or a peak Jrue is nowhere near as what we need right now. We need one of those 20+ppg scorer. Someone like Kyrie but is more a winning player and plays more defense.

*another disclaimer: i dont hate maxey, im just trying to see things objectively

I don't know if I'd say Maxey is special necessarily, but even if he only becomes a role player in due time, he would be playing a critical role next to our 3 stars, and a role none of them possess the ability to do.

If Maxey can be an above average defender (I personally think he can) while also having an average outside shot (he needs to improve this) and the ability to create half court offense off the dribble, get to the line and get buckets, on a rookie contract then I would be hard pressed to include him in any deals that don't have a rather significant impact on the chances of winning a ring.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Wont that set you up for mediocrity?

My mindset is like Morey’s rockets. Whereas you try to view any player outside your top 2 superstars as expandable assets.

While I find your position (use him as a usable role player and dont trade him unless its someone who can make significant impact for championship) once you want to trade Maxey because you have confirmed he is a role player, then you have to find some dumb team that believes he can be special that they’re willing to hand you their Zach Lavine or James Harden (significant impact player).

Mind you, again.. im not saying Maxey is a bad player. It’s just I think he should be viewed more as an asset than someone who we expect to be special (someone who can fill the hole we need to be filled).

[Kobblehead]

Kobble,

What makes you think Maxey is special?

I feel like there’s another guy like him in every draft. He’s just trained to be exactly what the modern PG in the league is but I find him to have no separation from average to above average guards to star guards. I personally see a lot of Jeff Teague in him.

A peak Jeff Teague or a peak Jrue is nowhere near as what we need right now. We need one of those 20+ppg scorer. Someone like Kyrie but is more a winning player and plays more defense.

*another disclaimer: i dont hate maxey, im just trying to see things objectively

He can slash and finish, he can score in the mid-range, he'll eventually be able to score from deep and space off the ball (using his free throw shooting). Rookie contract creators are worth their weight in gold. Maxey's true value to this roster will be solidified in years 3 and 4 when he's an on/off beast for us.

When you're picking in the 20s, it's really rare to get your hands on a freshman creator. Those guys usually go lottery. So sure, there are guys similar to Maxey in most drafts, the chances of the Sixers getting their hands on them, though? Pretty slim, judging on where we'll be consistently picking.

If we need a max slot guy to take us to the next level, then let's trade a max slot guy on our current roster that we don't think is capable of getting the job done (Ben Simmons). Let's not banish our rookie contract creators and 1st round picks to get that guy. Had we been using our picks on creators this whole time like we should have been (Ingram, Fultz, Alexander, Walker, Maxey), we wouldn't even be looking for upgrades because we'd be the title favorite by now.

[sixers4real]

Kobble,

What makes you think Maxey is special?

I feel like there’s another guy like him in every draft. He’s just trained to be exactly what the modern PG in the league is but I find him to have no separation from average to above average guards to star guards. I personally see a lot of Jeff Teague in him.

A peak Jeff Teague or a peak Jrue is nowhere near as what we need right now. We need one of those 20+ppg scorer. Someone like Kyrie but is more a winning player and plays more defense.

*another disclaimer: i dont hate maxey, im just trying to see things objectively

He can slash and finish, he can score in the mid-range, he'll eventually be able to score from deep and space off the ball (using his free throw shooting). Rookie contract creators are worth their weight in gold. Maxey's true value to this roster will be solidified in years 3 and 4 when he's an on/off beast for us.

When you're picking in the 20s, it's really rare to get your hands on a freshman creator. Those guys usually go lottery. So sure, there are guys similar to Maxey in most drafts, the chances of the Sixers getting their hands on them, though? Pretty slim, judging on where we'll be consistently picking.

If we need a max slot guy to take us to the next level, then let's trade a max slot guy on our current roster that we don't think is capable of getting the job done (Ben Simmons). Let's not banish our rookie contract creators and 1st round picks to get that guy. Had we been using our picks on creators this whole time like we should have been (Ingram, Fultz, Alexander, Walker, Maxey), we wouldn't even be looking for upgrades because we'd be the title favorite by now.

I agree on the Maxey part. I love the kid and I think in 2/3 years he’ll be special

[SparksFly87]

Oladipo and tucker for Tobias , Bradley expiring , expiring and a 1st is cool with me.

Fixes our 3rd star shotcreation issues with Olidipo. Also adds a tough veteran defender to our core.



Another intresting pair of deals would be

Tobias for Derozon swap.

Lowry for Green, Ferguson , Bradley
Or

Vise versa trade package.

Pairing Derozan and Lowry with Simmons and Embiid would be a tough team to beat.

JoJo/ Howard
Simmons/ Scott
derozan / thybulle
Curry/ Shake
Lowry / Maxey

[Jailblazers7]

Oladipo and tucker for Tobias , Bradley expiring , expiring and a 1st is cool with me.

Fixes our 3rd star shotcreation issues with Olidipo. Also adds a tough veteran defender to our core.



Another intresting pair of deals would be

Tobias for Derozon swap.

Lowry for Green, Ferguson , Bradley
Or

Vise versa trade package.

Pairing Derozan and Lowry with Simmons and Embiid would be a tough team to beat.

JoJo/ Howard
Simmons/ Scott
derozan / thybulle
Curry/ Shake
Lowry / Maxey

Oladipo isn't someone I'd want to deal with right now. I doubt he ever really gets back to his All-Start form given he's 28 and hasn't really played that well since his injury 2 years ago. He's also a guy who is playing for a contract and is going to want shots & the ball in a way that probably won't be good for team chemistry.

I think the Derozan trade is hard to imagine. I don't see why SA would want Tobi's contract and I have a hard time seeing Daryl trade one reluctant (but good 3 point shooter) for a reluctant & bad 3 point shooter on a team that desperately needs spacing.

And we're absolutely gonna need to give up Maxey or Thybulle in a Lowry trade too (and it should be Thybulle we send out if that happens).

The trade I was really hoping for was a Lonzo trade to have him as a Danny Green upgrade. But it looks like he's shot his way out of trade consideration over the last month, which is a bummer.

[sodmoraes]

Oladipo seems cooked, i rather have Tobias. I agree with Kobble, we shouldnt trade Maxey. If his jumper develops he will be really good for us in 2 years. He scored 39 points, i know we didnt have anyone in that game, but it gotta count for something

Sent from my SM-G920I using RealGM mobile app

[stormi]

Oladipo and tucker for Tobias , Bradley expiring , expiring and a 1st is cool with me.

Fixes our 3rd star shotcreation issues with Olidipo. Also adds a tough veteran defender to our core.



Another intresting pair of deals would be

Tobias for Derozon swap.

Lowry for Green, Ferguson , Bradley
Or

Vise versa trade package.

Pairing Derozan and Lowry with Simmons and Embiid would be a tough team to beat.

JoJo/ Howard
Simmons/ Scott
derozan / thybulle
Curry/ Shake
Lowry / Maxey

Tobias > Dipo

[Jailblazers7]

I also think that in terms of viewing Maxey as a trade chip, we should be looking to balance Daryl's aggressive philosophy with the way the Spurs & Raptors develop their young guys. That might actually be a benefit of Daryl having less than absolute authority over the roster. Maxey is a player that we should absolutely protect unless we're getting a long-term star level contributor like Beal or Lavine. His skills, potential, and future fit with Embiid/Simmons is what we've been searching for over the past 5 years.

Thybulle I'm less concerned with because I think he could just end up like Andre Roberson who was an awesome defender but a huge liability in the playoffs because of his shooting.

[elchengue20]

I rather have Tobias than Oladipo. Hes cooked.

And im the first person who wants to trade Tobias for a good scoring/playmaking guard. Oladipo just aint one nomore. I rather keep the chemistry than make a lateral move at best.

Maxey shoudnt be untouchable by any means. Im not seeing nothing special about him. But we should package our few assets for a good trade than spending them in rentals or small separate trades. Thats why im reclutant on trading him for a Lowry rental or something like that.

[Negrodamus]

I forgot that Morey already has experience with Lowry:

July 11, 2012: Traded Kyle Lowry to the Toronto Raptors for Gary Forbes and a 2013 1st round draft pick (Steven Adams was later selected).

Morey's early days with the Rockets were actually pretty bad.

[youngcrev]

I forgot that Morey already has experience with Lowry:

July 11, 2012: Traded Kyle Lowry to the Toronto Raptors for Gary Forbes and a 2013 1st round draft pick (Steven Adams was later selected).

Morey's early days with the Rockets were actually pretty bad.

The one to get him originally was pretty good though (and ballsy)

February 19, 2009: As part of a 3-team trade, the Houston Rockets traded Rafer Alston to the Orlando Magic; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Kyle Lowry to the Houston Rockets; the Orlando Magic traded Brian Cook to the Houston Rockets; and the Orlando Magic traded Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 1st round draft pick (DeMarre Carroll was later selected) to the Memphis Grizzlies.

Plus, if they got the pick that became Steven Adams, that means part of the package was flipped for Harden then, no,?

[Sixerscan]

I forgot that Morey already has experience with Lowry:

July 11, 2012: Traded Kyle Lowry to the Toronto Raptors for Gary Forbes and a 2013 1st round draft pick (Steven Adams was later selected).

Morey's early days with the Rockets were actually pretty bad.

The one to get him originally was pretty good though (and ballsy)

February 19, 2009: As part of a 3-team trade, the Houston Rockets traded Rafer Alston to the Orlando Magic; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Kyle Lowry to the Houston Rockets; the Orlando Magic traded Brian Cook to the Houston Rockets; and the Orlando Magic traded Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 1st round draft pick (DeMarre Carroll was later selected) to the Memphis Grizzlies.

Plus, if they got the pick that became Steven Adams, that means part of the package was flipped for Harden then, no,?

Yeah, and the Raptors were coming off some terrible years post-Bosh leaving them (22-60 and 23-43 the previous two) at the time so it was considered a premium asset. Was more or less the center piece of the Harden trade, which was only a few months later.

[sixers hoops]

Given that Delon Wright is also defensively excellent and under contract this year and the next, I could see them considering using Thybulle in a package to acquire him.

For whatever reason, Thybulle's jumper has been complete garbage and there appears to be no path visible where he becomes offensively competent.

Assuming Josh Harris is capping us at the luxury tax threshold, I think we see deals like this, or maybe move Tobias. For the most part I think they look for undervalued guys that can play a bigger role with us.

If Harris were willing to pay the repeater tax, then I am looking at Lowry or better.

[Skates]

If he can get healthy, George Hill is a really smart target for Morey, with Delon Wright in that same category. Both could be lead ballhandlers on the second team, add shooting and D, depth that would last into a playoff rotation. I really don't love Curry as a starter, agree that naybe Shake is better suited to switch places with him. Bjelica is worth a second and not much more, but useful if his shot returns to help us in the regular season with second unit flexibility and spacing. A couple trade pickups like that, then Morey could see if any buyouts can help us, but be set if the pickings are too slim there. I don't see any blockbusters out there this season and Morey knows well how to improve the margins and gain an edge that way too.