Magic have tough decision to make on Fournier (Robbins)

[Knightro]

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Key Notes
-Trading Fournier hurts the team this season and possibly the next season because A. they won't get a starting caliber SG in return B. Bacon is not starter quality and C. Ross prefers to be a 6th man
-Trading Vucevic is unlikely
-If Fournier is traded or walks, trading Gordon for a SG seems like the best option
-Magic do not want to pay the luxury tax on this group, making a Fournier for non-expiring contract trade unlikely. He cited Hield for Fournier/Birch as something the Magic wouldn't do because it would rocket them into the luxury tax next year.

Kind of a nothing burger of an article.

Essentially Robbins is saying because of the Magic's cap situation that Fournier is definitely not going to be back next year. But if he doesn't return that the Magic will have to sacrifice another piece (Gordon) via trade to replace Fournier's starting SG role. And the Magic can afford to dump Gordon because theoretically they will have Isaac, Okeke and Aminu all capable of playing PF next year.

Personally, I think Robbins is ignoring what appears to be the most obvious play which is to just lose a lot the rest of the way and simply draft Evan's replacement at SG in the top 5. That is the exact same thing the Magic did this past year with Augustin and Cole Anthony.

https://theathletic.com/2423638/2021/03/03/trading-evan-fournier-domino-effect/ ($)

[UCFJayBird]

Ross PREFERS to be the sixth man? Have i just missed that in the past or is that new information? Not many players prefer to come off the bench.

[zaymon]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

[zaymon]

Ross PREFERS to be the sixth man? Have i just missed that in the past or is that new information? Not many players prefer to come off the bench.

Yes he prefers it. I remember 3 years ago he asked to come from the bench and he is adamant about it since then.

[Skybox]

So, given those thoughts, what is the expected/hoped for return for Evan (likely to a contender who'd risk a rental for his scoring in the playoffs)?

I'd love a prospect (who could become a cheaper Evan but isn't yet) - otherwise, maybe a late first?
Seems funny but our main need this offseason is a good-sized wing who can shoot 40% from 3, put the ball on the floor, etc
(that SHOULD be Evan)

if we took back some bad vet money, we'd have a much better chance of getting a decent prospect but this implies that's unlikely.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

made a trade on the trade board that was pretty well liked from both sides.

AG + Fournier for Beasley & Rubio.

Honestly could care less about the felony gun charge for Beasley. He has a no gun own policy now so that should take care of it. On the court where it matters he's an absolute stud on a solid deal for multiple years. That solves the SG spot and TRoss can continue to be 6th man.

Getting Rubio for 1 year would allow Fultz to rehab on his pace and not be rushed back. He isn't anything super special but allows us to let Cole get his feet wet and us have a capable PG to run an offense. We're not going to be great next year either and when Cole is ready for more minutes then Rubio comes off bench ( cliff laughs at this statement)

Capulator for Cap Breakout-> http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=574269653603fad1237953414769762

Magic would be in the tax by a bout 1M but the FO should be able to move someone to stay under that Tax bracket.

Rubio/Cole/MCScrubb/IR Fultz
Beasley/TRoss
Okeke/Bacon
Aminu/Clark/IR Isaac
Vuc/Bamba

Add a top 5 draft pick and that's a somewhat intriguing roster to build with.

[Knightro]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

[GelbeWand09]

I'm clearly in the get his replacement in the draft camp & use next year as a acclimation year for the rookie & Fultz/JI. All that talk about being bad this year & win next year with a healthy team is nice in theory, but in reality we are bad to mediocre when healthy too. All these injury excuses this season let some people think we are bad because of them. You guys should check last years record (or the years before).
Isaac & Fultz gonna be rusty & nobody knows if they will ever be 100% again & Fultz wont help much anyway til he can shoot.
The chance our high pick wont help us winning much in his rookie year is super high too. Even Kevin Durant was one of the worst players in the leaque as a rookie.
Keeping Fournier or not wont change anything too. He is just not a player that moves the needle at all.

The decision if we trade Evan or not shoudnt have to do anything with winning this or next season. It should be in mind with winning in 2 years and beyond, because this team wont turn magically into a 2nd round team next year. If the bottom of the east is still a joke, we end up 8-7 again at best.

Edit: Ok, just see Knightro's post. Could have saved me some time writing this

[MoMM]

If we are not going to re-sign him, we should trade him for some combination of expiring contract + mid 1st round pick.

Maybe teams looking to make the playoffs (around 7-10) could go for this and we could add a SRP to entice the pot, so it would be something like a 15-20 pick for a 30-35 pick.

However, the odd man out is AG and luckily we can get more for him as he is locked for one more year in a good contract.

[zaymon]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

[Knightro]

So, given those thoughts, what is the expected/hoped for return for Evan (likely to a contender who'd risk a rental for his scoring in the playoffs)?

I'd love a prospect (who could become a cheaper Evan but isn't yet) - otherwise, maybe a late first?
Seems funny but our main need this offseason is a good-sized wing who can shoot 40% from 3, put the ball on the floor, etc
(that SHOULD be Evan)

if we took back some bad vet money, we'd have a much better chance of getting a decent prospect but this implies that's unlikely.

For me? It's an expiring contract and a young player or late (25 or later) first.

I look at Philadelphia.

Danny Green's 15.3M expiring contract and either Milton or Maxey or some combo of their 2021 1st, Joe, Korkmaz?

[thelead]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

I'm not opposed to bringing back Evan but how do we improve this roster if we don't tank AND we continue to resign our own players to long/large contracts? We're already capped out without Evan. How do we bring in talent?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

Aminu was one of the WORST FA signings possible, & had nothing to do with Gordon. They just saw a dude who could slide in play bench minutes since Okeke was going to be injured for the whole year and technically not even on the roster.

In terms of the bold statement you're absolutely taking the piss thinking that team could even sniff a 2nd round playoff series.

[Skybox]

So, given those thoughts, what is the expected/hoped for return for Evan (likely to a contender who'd risk a rental for his scoring in the playoffs)?

I'd love a prospect (who could become a cheaper Evan but isn't yet) - otherwise, maybe a late first?
Seems funny but our main need this offseason is a good-sized wing who can shoot 40% from 3, put the ball on the floor, etc
(that SHOULD be Evan)

if we took back some bad vet money, we'd have a much better chance of getting a decent prospect but this implies that's unlikely.

For me? It's an expiring contract and a young player or late (25 or later) first.

I look at Philadelphia.

Danny Green's 15.3M expiring contract and either Milton or Maxey or some combo of their 2021 1st, Joe, Korkmaz?

I like this line of thinking...based on timeline, maybe pick up one of those late 1st, early 2nd guys we would have liked and/or a late pick w/an expiring. I like it for both Fournier and Gordon, perhaps in seperate trades to up our haul of possibilities.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

I'm not opposed to bringing back Evan but how do we improve this roster if we don't tank AND we continue to resign our own players to long/large contracts? We're already capped out without Evan. How do we bring in talent?

I don’t think there is a way tbh. They’re going to have to make a damn move at some point.

[Def Swami]

Tough?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

I'm not opposed to bringing back Evan but how do we improve this roster if we don't tank AND we continue to resign our own players to long/large contracts? We're already capped out without Evan. How do we bring in talent?

I don’t think there is a way tbh. They’re going to have to make a damn move at some point.

We can't bring in talent if we continue to follow the dumb path we're on. The only way is through internal improvement. Vuc has 2 years left on his contract and that's about how long it will take Fultz & Cole & likely Isaac to grow into more offensive players. So we'd be wasting the best years waiting for 2 players to show big growth not even knowing if they get there.

The FO has to do something at deadline or draft night because right now there's a bleak path forward.

[zaymon]

I'm not opposed to bringing back Evan but how do we improve this roster if we don't tank AND we continue to resign our own players to long/large contracts? We're already capped out without Evan. How do we bring in talent?

1. We need Isaac to become all nba defender, above average 3 point shooter and stay healthy, there is no way around it.
2. We need to hit on one and propably two among Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Bamba. By hit i mean solid starters.
3. We need to get lucky in the lottery. I am not against finishing outside playoffs this year but we need to do this smart without bottoming out. Just like Pelicans, Grizzlies, Hornets in the new lottery and Nuggets, Jazz, Bucks, Raptors, Heat in the old lottery.
4. Unlike many teams we still have all our draft picks, some young intriguing players and good veterans. We propably need to trade for some disgruntled star.

[MagicFan101]

I'm not opposed to bringing back Evan but how do we improve this roster if we don't tank AND we continue to resign our own players to long/large contracts? We're already capped out without Evan. How do we bring in talent?

Well there you have it. A big problem we have had recently has been player development.

Even the harshest of Evan critics (myself included) would not say he lacks talent. The issue has always been his style of play and unwillingness to play within a team system ... aka “Buddy Ball”

How do we develop Fultz, Isaac, Cole, Chuma, Bamba and our upcoming pick(s) if we resign Evan and continue to rollout Buddy Ball as our primary offensive strategy??

If we want to improve, it’s time to move on.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I dont think there is anyone in the draft ready to start from day one. Maybe you guys start to listen when i say resiging Fournier is the most logical option. Lets say we draft Suggs who i really like and trade Gordon.
Fultz/Fournier/Okeke/Isaac/Vucevic
Anthony/Suggs/Ross/Aminu/center starting on B

Suggs and Anthony are so young, we would have much more flexibility with Fultz and more trade assets with Fournier and Ross. This makes so much sense. Anthony is not close to being starter level, rookie shouldnt be a starter in most cases.

I agree with your point that none of the guys in the draft are ready to step right in and play winning basketball from Day 1 because most rookies, even good ones, aren't ready to do that.

There's 0 rookies in the top 40 in Real Plus Minus and only 2 in the top 120 (LaMelo and Quickley) in RPM this season.

But ultimately that isn't the point, is it?

We've seen the absolute ceiling of this current group of players. Clifford's first year here the Magic had the most healthy roster in the league *and* got career years from Vucevic, Ross, Augustin and arguably Gordon too.

And they went 42-40 and lost in 5 in the first round.

There's just no upside to resigning Evan. If you're argument is "oh well they'll be worse next year" that doesn't work for me because they're already maxed out in what they can accomplish with no real ability to get better.

Then there's the financial implications.

The cap is $112 million and tax is $136.6 million next year.

As it stands right now, assuming Aminu does opt in, the Magic have roughly $114.3M committed already to 10 players. They're almost certainly gonna have a high draft pick at around $6.5M dollars in year 1, so that jumps them up to $120.8M on 11 players. The Magic would have to add at least two more guys on the minimum and for argument's sake let's say they're both rookies, that's another $2M.

So now you're at $122.8M on 13 players, just 13.8M under the luxury tax. Do you think Fournier is signing for less than that? With as many teams that are going to have cap space out there this upcoming summer, I certainly don't.

Resigning Fournier would push the Magic into the luxury tax. Now, it isn't my money so I don't really care if the billionaire owners pay the tax, but thinking about it realistically the Magic would be absolute fools to pay even 1 cent of luxury tax on a team that has such a low ceiling.

You're not going to punt Gordon, who is young enough and versatile enough to maintain *some* level of value even if it's not as much as we might have originally hoped, into someone's cap space for nothing. So you'll be bringing back salary in that trade as well.

I would rather punt Gordon than Fournier. Gordon doesnt make any sense on our roster. Every move Weltman made so far shows he is not happy with AG long term. How else can you explain Isaac, Okeke, Aminu ? Thats majority of his moves. We can still get some expirings and future draft picks for him.
I dont know what ceiling are you talking about ? Ceiling with Augustine, sophomore Isaac, slumping AG and Fournier, non 3 point shooting Vucevic ? It was not Vucevic carrier year, certainly not Isaac carrier year, not Fournier carrier year, Gordon was awful especially at the beginning. That narrative is false. Players get better, roster gets more balanced. It all comes to this: do you believe starting 5 of
*/Fournier/*/Isaac/Vucevic
* could be Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Gordon, Aminu or some other players we use our assets on ?
Could reach the ecf ? I believe it can.

You meant to put a green font here, right?