Magic have tough decision to make on Fournier (Robbins)

[Skybox]

This is not that tough of a decision. I'm sure there are plenty of guards who if given the green light could do what Fournier does.

I think this is true, to some extent...my offseason goal would be to move Gordon, Evan, maybe Birch for as many young shooting prospects and give them the green light and see if we can find a new, cheap, hungry shooter...Evan is a really good player but, perhaps not the guy for us. We could do okay, IMO, with a more limited 3 & D type without all of Evan's other offensive attributes as much of what he wants to do is being shifted to Fultz, Cole and "Mr 2021".

I like Pepe's proposal, but we might want to also consider Tyrell Terry and/or Tyler Bey (who is apparently shooting in G league-he was supposedly just a D guy) and/or Josh Green (who has a similar profile)...Odds are good that Nesmith has what we're looking for and BOS is struggling AND has that TPE. Birch could maybe get us Shamet from BRK....I'd rather have 8 potential shooters to cycle in and out than 8 bigs (we can always move youngsters in/out of G league). Some legit high-volume floor spreaders and a coach who gets them to move the ball can make things look easy out there.

[Last Guardian]

This is not that tough of a decision. I'm sure there are plenty of guards who if given the green light could do what Fournier does.

ehh, not really. SG spot in nba is ultra thin, almost every above average and average player gets payed.
Evan Fournier ballpark of production is up there with:
Eric Gordon ( older, same money)
Levert ( not effective scorer, has serious health issue )
Danny Green ( fell from cliff)
Ross ( onedimensional, streaky mediocre shooter)
JJ Redick (fell off cliff)
KCP ( onedimensional)
J Rich ( flat out bad this year )
Satoransky ( bad )
Seth Curry ( 30 years old, signed for other team)
Oladipo ( never plays, more expensive)
Gary Harris ( horrific for years)

Players that could replace Evan and could be realistic are Jeremy Lamb, Norman Powell, Malik Beasley, Hardaway jr.
Won't get any of them without trade.

If you look Magic biggest issue, it's shooting and playmaking by far. Evan provides shooting and bit of playmaking. He isn't great, but as you can see from upper list, at SG only players that are elite are: Booker,Harden, CJ McCullum, Beal, Klay. We are not gettting any of them.

Rational arguments doesnt work with those posters. They will write one stupid sentence, sometimes add a gif and thats all.

Coming from you thats hilarious.

[Last Guardian]

This is not that tough of a decision. I'm sure there are plenty of guards who if given the green light could do what Fournier does.

I'm not in the keep Fournier camp but you're underselling his ability to score. He's good getting into the paint scoring in a variety of ways, obviously from three as a spot up shooter or on the move, good with the side step threes. Who are all these available guards you speak of who are as good as Evan? And if they can do what he can do then why not just keep Him?

Nice assumption. Its simply just looking around the league. Lots of guards are scoring these days, and more will crop up over time. Evan is a good scorer and pretty crafty, but he's not irreplaceable. Yea, we could keep him but he's a career loser and we've done nothing with him since he's been here so why not give someone else a chance.

I get the Vuc love. At least his skillset is not easily replaceable at his position. There are like 2 players better than him. But Evan is not even better than Jordan Clarkson.

[zaymon]

This is not that tough of a decision. I'm sure there are plenty of guards who if given the green light could do what Fournier does.

I'm not in the keep Fournier camp but you're underselling his ability to score. He's good getting into the paint scoring in a variety of ways, obviously from three as a spot up shooter or on the move, good with the side step threes. Who are all these available guards you speak of who are as good as Evan? And if they can do what he can do then why not just keep Him?

Nice assumption. Its simply just looking around the league. Lots of guards are scoring these days, and more will crop up over time. Evan is a good scorer and pretty crafty, but he's not irreplaceable. Yea, we could keep him but he's a career loser and we've done nothing with him since he's been here so why not give someone else a chance.

I get the Vuc love. At least his skillset is not easily replaceable at his position. There are like 2 players better than him. But Evan is not even better than Jordan Clarkson.

You compare carrier backup who is less efficient and worse defensively playing on better team with above average starter who is still efficient despite playing alongside limited players like Fultz and Gordon. Your argument dont hold up. Yes Evan is not irreplaceable but he is pretty close to in our cap situation and with wing shortage in whole nba. If he is easy to replace please find a better exemple.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

This is not that tough of a decision. I'm sure there are plenty of guards who if given the green light could do what Fournier does.

ehh, not really. SG spot in nba is ultra thin, almost every above average and average player gets payed.
Evan Fournier ballpark of production is up there with:
Eric Gordon ( older, same money)
Levert ( not effective scorer, has serious health issue )
Danny Green ( fell from cliff)
Ross ( onedimensional, streaky mediocre shooter)
JJ Redick (fell off cliff)
KCP ( onedimensional)
J Rich ( flat out bad this year )
Satoransky ( bad )
Seth Curry ( 30 years old, signed for other team)
Oladipo ( never plays, more expensive)
Gary Harris ( horrific for years)

Players that could replace Evan and could be realistic are Jeremy Lamb, Norman Powell, Malik Beasley, Hardaway jr.
Won't get any of them without trade.

If you look Magic biggest issue, it's shooting and playmaking by far. Evan provides shooting and bit of playmaking. He isn't great, but as you can see from upper list, at SG only players that are elite are: Booker,Harden, CJ McCullum, Beal, Klay. We are not gettting any of them.

Rational arguments doesnt work with those posters. They will write one stupid sentence, sometimes add a gif and thats all.

Rational arguments like the ones where Isaac becomes DPOY and is an above average 3 point shooter. Nah mate that’s **** delusional stuff. There’s a reason this board has lost tons of posters. They’re tired of BS and seeing people like you take every inch of the FO

[zaymon]

ehh, not really. SG spot in nba is ultra thin, almost every above average and average player gets payed.
Evan Fournier ballpark of production is up there with:
Eric Gordon ( older, same money)
Levert ( not effective scorer, has serious health issue )
Danny Green ( fell from cliff)
Ross ( onedimensional, streaky mediocre shooter)
JJ Redick (fell off cliff)
KCP ( onedimensional)
J Rich ( flat out bad this year )
Satoransky ( bad )
Seth Curry ( 30 years old, signed for other team)
Oladipo ( never plays, more expensive)
Gary Harris ( horrific for years)

Players that could replace Evan and could be realistic are Jeremy Lamb, Norman Powell, Malik Beasley, Hardaway jr.
Won't get any of them without trade.

If you look Magic biggest issue, it's shooting and playmaking by far. Evan provides shooting and bit of playmaking. He isn't great, but as you can see from upper list, at SG only players that are elite are: Booker,Harden, CJ McCullum, Beal, Klay. We are not gettting any of them.

Rational arguments doesnt work with those posters. They will write one stupid sentence, sometimes add a gif and thats all.

Rational arguments like the ones where Isaac becomes DPOY and is an above average 3 point shooter. Nah mate that’s **** delusional stuff. There’s a reason this board has lost tons of posters. They’re tired of BS and seeing people like you take every inch of the FO

Isaac becoming all nba defender is delusional stuff ? If thats your main problem with my arguments i dont have anything more to say. Just wow. I dont pretend to know why every poster here is leaving, i guess they all confess to you in private messages but if i had to make a guess i would say losing took a toll on them and also negative posters who write their nonsense without doing proper reasearch.

[pepe1991]

ehh, not really. SG spot in nba is ultra thin, almost every above average and average player gets payed.
Evan Fournier ballpark of production is up there with:
Eric Gordon ( older, same money)
Levert ( not effective scorer, has serious health issue )
Danny Green ( fell from cliff)
Ross ( onedimensional, streaky mediocre shooter)
JJ Redick (fell off cliff)
KCP ( onedimensional)
J Rich ( flat out bad this year )
Satoransky ( bad )
Seth Curry ( 30 years old, signed for other team)
Oladipo ( never plays, more expensive)
Gary Harris ( horrific for years)

Players that could replace Evan and could be realistic are Jeremy Lamb, Norman Powell, Malik Beasley, Hardaway jr.
Won't get any of them without trade.

If you look Magic biggest issue, it's shooting and playmaking by far. Evan provides shooting and bit of playmaking. He isn't great, but as you can see from upper list, at SG only players that are elite are: Booker,Harden, CJ McCullum, Beal, Klay. We are not gettting any of them.

Rational arguments doesnt work with those posters. They will write one stupid sentence, sometimes add a gif and thats all.

Rational arguments like the ones where Isaac becomes DPOY and is an above average 3 point shooter. Nah mate that’s **** delusional stuff. There’s a reason this board has lost tons of posters. They’re tired of BS and seeing people like you take every inch of the FO

Eh, most people were never actually Magic fans.
I mean, they were, but there is huge portion of the fans who only support teams that are sucesful. They emotionally attach with team that has highest chance of not dissapointing them. That's why even Lakers and Celtics fanbase during poor years was pretty thin, and now Lakers fans are back at it. Where Warriors fans went from zero to hero back to zero over 2 years, until Curry returned.

And that's the thing with modern "fans". Most of them are player-fans. Magic having no star since Howard is main reason nobody actually supports the team more.

That's also key reason why teams love superstars, f*** results, they fill arenas and sell everything that you print with that player's name. On list of most sold Jersey's from single season, it's just collection of superstars that are moving incredible amount of merch in last 7 years. Lebron's 2020 and 2019 are top 2 most sold jersey's of all time. China money + Lebron in Lakers. They probably earned more money from Lebron merch sell in one year than Orlando in last 9 combined.

Soccer is even bigger offender of teens -hooping onto sucessful teams. I grew up with Milan, Juventus and Man United being top tear teams, but people younger than me are Barcelona and Real Madrid fans, and this new generation are fans of Man City and PSG, teams that held no value when i was youner. Next generation will also probably follow whenever money will lead. Because whenever money leads, there is sucess.

And that's probably bottom line of the sports in general, you can bought fans nowdays. history has no meaning to newer generations, they want instant gratification. If nba has expansion and they have China Money team with Lebron, Giannis and Durant, fans will swear they were China Money fans since a day they were born.

[Last Guardian]

I'm not in the keep Fournier camp but you're underselling his ability to score. He's good getting into the paint scoring in a variety of ways, obviously from three as a spot up shooter or on the move, good with the side step threes. Who are all these available guards you speak of who are as good as Evan? And if they can do what he can do then why not just keep Him?

Nice assumption. Its simply just looking around the league. Lots of guards are scoring these days, and more will crop up over time. Evan is a good scorer and pretty crafty, but he's not irreplaceable. Yea, we could keep him but he's a career loser and we've done nothing with him since he's been here so why not give someone else a chance.

I get the Vuc love. At least his skillset is not easily replaceable at his position. There are like 2 players better than him. But Evan is not even better than Jordan Clarkson.

You compare carrier backup who is less efficient and worse defensively playing on better team with above average starter who is still efficient despite playing alongside limited players like Fultz and Gordon. Your argument dont hold up. Yes Evan is not irreplaceable but he is pretty close to in our cap situation and with wing shortage in whole nba. If he is easy to replace please find a better exemple.

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

[pepe1991]

Nice assumption. Its simply just looking around the league. Lots of guards are scoring these days, and more will crop up over time. Evan is a good scorer and pretty crafty, but he's not irreplaceable. Yea, we could keep him but he's a career loser and we've done nothing with him since he's been here so why not give someone else a chance.

I get the Vuc love. At least his skillset is not easily replaceable at his position. There are like 2 players better than him. But Evan is not even better than Jordan Clarkson.

You compare carrier backup who is less efficient and worse defensively playing on better team with above average starter who is still efficient despite playing alongside limited players like Fultz and Gordon. Your argument dont hold up. Yes Evan is not irreplaceable but he is pretty close to in our cap situation and with wing shortage in whole nba. If he is easy to replace please find a better exemple.

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

[zaymon]

You compare carrier backup who is less efficient and worse defensively playing on better team with above average starter who is still efficient despite playing alongside limited players like Fultz and Gordon. Your argument dont hold up. Yes Evan is not irreplaceable but he is pretty close to in our cap situation and with wing shortage in whole nba. If he is easy to replace please find a better exemple.

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

I love debating but its hard when other side is not using rational arguments. I can disagree with you pepe, but at least you present your defensible point of view which i respect even if i dont agree.
Yes you can compare Fournier with Beal, Sexton and Lavine becouse they are all starters. Beal and Lavine are better, Sexton is debatable but with greater potential. They doesnt matter tough, becouse they are not available.
Clarkson and other bench guys you mentioned are a lot worse than Fournier. Like starter vs reserve difference. Its confirmed by both stats and eye test. Other than Hardaway rest of guys you mentioned are not available.
Magic are average with Fournier and bad without him. This season shows this clearly. Depending on Isaac we can be good, and depending on our PG and SF situation we can be very good.

Believe me i want change. I dont want to see MCW/Bacon/Ennis/Aminu/Vucevic starting next year. We will have 4 other starters. I want Gordon gone but honestly i cant see any good replacement for Fournier for the next 2-3 years. I also want to be high in the lottery, but trading AG should be enough and i dont think trading Vucevic is worth around 10% more chance to get a potential second tier star in the 2021 draft.

[Last Guardian]

You compare carrier backup who is less efficient and worse defensively playing on better team with above average starter who is still efficient despite playing alongside limited players like Fultz and Gordon. Your argument dont hold up. Yes Evan is not irreplaceable but he is pretty close to in our cap situation and with wing shortage in whole nba. If he is easy to replace please find a better exemple.

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

What differentiates Evan from them?

Against best teams we have played this season: Vs Brooklyn (8pts 3/9 shooting) Vs Clippers (8pts 3/13 shooting) vs Utah (16pt 7/20 shooting) Vs Toronto (11pts 2/12 shooting) vs Toronto (21 pts 7/15 shooting). His best games against marginal teams would be vs Knicks and Warriors.

Evan beats up on bad teams and fails against good teams. As starter in two playoff series he got 12ppg with 35% shooting both times. He is a backup playing starter on a bad team and that is that. He is same tier level as those players I mentioned even if he is slightly better. And lets not bring up defense, his numbers are very very bad although I admit he does give effort he just doesn't have the physical tools.

[Last Guardian]

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

I love debating but its hard when other side is not using rational arguments. I can disagree with you pepe, but at least you present your defensible point of view which i respect even if i dont agree.
Yes you can compare Fournier with Beal, Sexton and Lavine becouse they are all starters. Beal and Lavine are better, Sexton is debatable but with greater potential. They doesnt matter tough, becouse they are not available.
Clarkson and other bench guys you mentioned are a lot worse than Fournier. Like starter vs reserve difference. Its confirmed by both stats and eye test. Other than Hardaway rest of guys you mentioned are not available.
Magic are average with Fournier and bad without him. This season shows this clearly. Depending on Isaac we can be good, and depending on our PG and SF situation we can be very good.

Believe me i want change. I dont want to see MCW/Bacon/Ennis/Aminu/Vucevic starting next year. We will have 4 other starters. I want Gordon gone but honestly i cant see any good replacement for Fournier for the next 2-3 years. I also want to be high in the lottery, but trading AG should be enough and i dont think trading Vucevic is worth around 10% more chance to get a potential second tier star in the 2021 draft.

Hard to argue with someone insane. Sexton averages 24ppg with better shooting across the board with defenses focusing on him but it is a debate to you that he's better than Evan.

What does the eye test tell you about Evan against good teams and playoff performances? I bet you think he was wonderful.

[zaymon]

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

I love debating but its hard when other side is not using rational arguments. I can disagree with you pepe, but at least you present your defensible point of view which i respect even if i dont agree.
Yes you can compare Fournier with Beal, Sexton and Lavine becouse they are all starters. Beal and Lavine are better, Sexton is debatable but with greater potential. They doesnt matter tough, becouse they are not available.
Clarkson and other bench guys you mentioned are a lot worse than Fournier. Like starter vs reserve difference. Its confirmed by both stats and eye test. Other than Hardaway rest of guys you mentioned are not available.
Magic are average with Fournier and bad without him. This season shows this clearly. Depending on Isaac we can be good, and depending on our PG and SF situation we can be very good.

Believe me i want change. I dont want to see MCW/Bacon/Ennis/Aminu/Vucevic starting next year. We will have 4 other starters. I want Gordon gone but honestly i cant see any good replacement for Fournier for the next 2-3 years. I also want to be high in the lottery, but trading AG should be enough and i dont think trading Vucevic is worth around 10% more chance to get a potential second tier star in the 2021 draft.

Hard to argue with someone insane. Sexton averages 24ppg with better shooting across the board with defenses focusing on him but it is a debate to you that he's better than Evan.

What does the eye test tell you about Evan against good teams and playoff performances? I bet you think he was wonderful.

You took that one meaningless sentence from my whole argument ? Do everyone a favor and compare Fournier and Sexton numbers before jumping to quick conclusions. I even wrote he has greater potential and it was not point of debate becouse Sexton is not available to replace Fournier. Disputing with uneducated and clueless person doesnt give me any joy.

[Last Guardian]

I love debating but its hard when other side is not using rational arguments. I can disagree with you pepe, but at least you present your defensible point of view which i respect even if i dont agree.
Yes you can compare Fournier with Beal, Sexton and Lavine becouse they are all starters. Beal and Lavine are better, Sexton is debatable but with greater potential. They doesnt matter tough, becouse they are not available.
Clarkson and other bench guys you mentioned are a lot worse than Fournier. Like starter vs reserve difference. Its confirmed by both stats and eye test. Other than Hardaway rest of guys you mentioned are not available.
Magic are average with Fournier and bad without him. This season shows this clearly. Depending on Isaac we can be good, and depending on our PG and SF situation we can be very good.

Believe me i want change. I dont want to see MCW/Bacon/Ennis/Aminu/Vucevic starting next year. We will have 4 other starters. I want Gordon gone but honestly i cant see any good replacement for Fournier for the next 2-3 years. I also want to be high in the lottery, but trading AG should be enough and i dont think trading Vucevic is worth around 10% more chance to get a potential second tier star in the 2021 draft.

Hard to argue with someone insane. Sexton averages 24ppg with better shooting across the board with defenses focusing on him but it is a debate to you that he's better than Evan.

What does the eye test tell you about Evan against good teams and playoff performances? I bet you think he was wonderful.

You took that one meaningless sentence from my whole argument ? Do everyone a favor and compare Fournier and Sexton numbers before jumping to quick conclusions. I even wrote he has greater potential and it was not point of debate becouse Sexton is not available to replace Fournier. Disputing with uneducated and clueless person doesnt give me any joy.

Your whole argument is trash so any part of it would be meaningless. And debating with a troll is definitely a waste of my time so I won’t bother anymore. But hey good job ignoring Evans stellar performances against playoff caliber talent, it will do you well for future argument

[Skybox]

I can't imagine why people are leaving these boards

[j-ragg]

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

What differentiates Evan from them?

Against best teams we have played this season: Vs Brooklyn (8pts 3/9 shooting) Vs Clippers (8pts 3/13 shooting) vs Utah (16pt 7/20 shooting) Vs Toronto (11pts 2/12 shooting) vs Toronto (21 pts 7/15 shooting). His best games against marginal teams would be vs Knicks and Warriors.

Evan beats up on bad teams and fails against good teams. As starter in two playoff series he got 12ppg with 35% shooting both times. He is a backup playing starter on a bad team and that is that. He is same tier level as those players I mentioned even if he is slightly better. And lets not bring up defense, his numbers are very very bad although I admit he does give effort he just doesn't have the physical tools.

Looks like one of those irrational arguments again

[pepe1991]

Just an awful argument you are trying to make and failing miserably. Beal, Sexton, Lavine are also on bad teams who cares? We are judging individual abilities of players. Is James Harden only better than Evan because he has better teamates? Your argument is beyond silly trying to drag down his teamates and trying to take the focus off Evan. I'm not saying he sucks. He's in a tier of Hardaway Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross, Caris Lavert, etc. Acting like he's much better than those guys is beyond delusional. And then acting like the Magic are bad without Evan when they are bad WITH him.

Simply put, if the Magic are going to be stubborn and try to win instead of tanking they need to have Okeke, Isaac healthy and improved with Vuc at C and an elite offense at the guard positions. They'll basically need Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown level backcourt at the very least to be a competitive team. I don't know how to get such a backcourt but if winning is what you want, that is what they'll need to do

Its amazing that years of pretty much seeing the same exact offensive scheme and players fail and yet people don't want to change anything but just hope it gets better.

I'm not going into debate you guys are having, but Clarkson , Hardaway and Ross are backups because they flat out don't stack up well against smart, well organised and talented teams. They get themselfs going as backups because most teams ,especially top tear ones, are not balanced enough to have good bench. So it's them abusing bums.
Clarkson showed a lot of times that as starter he is flat out mediocre at best, he can't defend well and his decision making in close games is terrible.
Hardaway, same story.
Ross never played on good team in his life.

What differentiates Evan from them?

Against best teams we have played this season: Vs Brooklyn (8pts 3/9 shooting) Vs Clippers (8pts 3/13 shooting) vs Utah (16pt 7/20 shooting) Vs Toronto (11pts 2/12 shooting) vs Toronto (21 pts 7/15 shooting). His best games against marginal teams would be vs Knicks and Warriors.

Evan beats up on bad teams and fails against good teams. As starter in two playoff series he got 12ppg with 35% shooting both times. He is a backup playing starter on a bad team and that is that. He is same tier level as those players I mentioned even if he is slightly better. And lets not bring up defense, his numbers are very very bad although I admit he does give effort he just doesn't have the physical tools.

Difference is clear tho
Jordan Clarkson as starter averaged 13 points on 33% for 3 and 51,8% TS
Jordan Clarkson on Cavs was also mediocre at best.
He exploded on team that has legit 6 players better than him: Donivan Mitchell, GObert, Conley, Bojan and Ingles. Can make argument Favors is better.

Hardaway jr wasn't even good shooter before Dallas and Luka Doncic as teammate.
Guy is career 35% shooter only because of last 2 seasons. Before that he was 32-33% three point shooter. Once again, player who is not top 3-4 best player on own team.

As far as Evan vs good teams goes, even last year his best games were ( regualar season) against BUcks, Boston,Houston, Indiana, Philadelphia... so there is no much merit to it.

Evan flat out is better shooter than anybody mentioned here, he is also far superior passer compared to rest of them. He also is most of the nights Magic second to third best player.

But whole argument makes no sense since Magic actually CAN'T get any of those guys without trades, witch goes back to orginal point that Magic can't just replace him that easly, like it's being said above. It's factually false information.
Magic can draft SG that might be close to his level in rookie year, but odds are , it will be downgrade, at least short term.
If you argue that some Green, Suggs or whoever will come off and be 20 ppg , 60% TS scorer, fine, that's your opinion. It's fine to be wrong. Odds are, it flat out won't happen.