The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[eyeatoma]

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Really good analysis by KOC.

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[ivysixer2000]

I'd do a Beal for Simmons swap right now. 80 pts a night from your three best players is too good to pass on.

I just wonder when we say this, if we realize how much it would cripple our D, we wouldn't have any wing defenders at all.

Not only that, for the Wiz, Ben would be an awful combo with Westbrook.

I'd rather trade Tobias for someone to help out with a perimeter scorer at this point.

[SixthStreet]

If Ben's FTr increase isn't a one month heater, but rather a sustainable increase based on his aggressiveness and willingness to play through contact, he's off the trade block to me. He has top 10 player in the league written all over him if this is real. That said, I'm not convinced if it is real yet. Especially as it regards to playoff, half court oriented basketball. He's had stretches of elevated production before.

[kio80]

I'd do a Beal for Simmons swap right now. 80 pts a night from your three best players is too good to pass on.

I just wonder when we say this, if we realize how much it would cripple our D, we wouldn't have any wing defenders at all.

Not only that, for the Wiz, Ben would be an awful combo with Westbrook.

I'd rather trade Tobias for someone to help out with a perimeter scorer at this point.

Agreed, makes a lot more sense than "80 pts a night from your three best players is too good to pass on" casual noises.

I have always liked Bertans

[elchengue20]

If Ben's FTr increase isn't a one month heater, but rather a sustainable increase based on his aggressiveness and willingness to play through contact, he's off the trade block to me. He has top 10 player in the league written all over him if this is real. That said, I'm not convinced if it is real yet. Especially as it regards to playoff, half court oriented basketball. He's had stretches of elevated production before.

I agree, but i wouldn't say he's off the table. If he continues this level of production for the rest of the season, asking price should be way higher for sure. Like Ben straight up for a Harden kind of deal. Or other teams would have to give us players like Lavine or Beal + multiple assets.

Still, we have to see if this change is real.Then we have too see his level of production in the Playoffs.And the overall team fit when the game slows down a bit in the postseason.That's crucial to me.RS numbers are nice but don't mean much if we still have the same problems as always when it matters.

[Bum Adebayo]

Remember that this is pre All Star game though. We need to assess Ben Simmons post All Star game and in playoffs to see what player we really have and if he is finally motivated to be consistent most games instead of only when he wants to be selected for All Star game.

[DCasey91]

Remember that this is pre All Star game though. We need to assess Ben Simmons post All Star game and in playoffs to see what player we really have and if he is finally motivated to be consistent most games instead of only when he wants to be selected for All Star game.

I think Ben turned the corner late last year.

15 games before injury 21/10/8/2.

3rd actual playing season onto his 4th year it might be the natural jump. He’ll be entering his prime next year and beyond so top ten player/impact is definitely on the cards. He rates about 20th on two different impact metrics which is a far est.

If he goes something like 22/8/8 from here on out and performs well in the playoffs there isn’t much to worry about.

Besides Harden I was never too high on any trade involving him outside of that. Our team is so very highly dependent on both. You could argue it’s the most flawed roster outside of those two and I’d take anyone up on that bet lol.

I don’t pay attention to media/narrative driven by fans or fans from other teams saying we need to break them up. It’s asinine when both haven’t played without a legitimate high level backcourt pairing.

Worst case scenario we have legitimately 2/3’s of a championship quality core. Best case scenario our margin for error will be a lot greater, the better Ben gets. Both together are 55 wins each year. It’s the rest of the roster that’s leaves a lot to be desired. Until that changes it’s going to the basically the same thing all over again. Only this time if Embiid is fit/healthy we can maybe sneak into the EF.

The downside though is we don’t have many chances left because of the wasted opportunities time and time again. That isn’t on duo at all. Fish at the top and all that. That’s on them.

Everyone else should be free market. I’d rather go out swinging then thinking about the what if’s/hindsight. I highly doubt either Beal/Lavine + Embiid would get it done.

[Ferry Avenue]

From last night's hotly contested game against the Jazz, from the 9-minute mark of the fourth quarter on, when the game was tied 92-92:

Joel Embiid: 15 points (5-9 shooting), 7 rebounds, 2 assists

Tobias Harris: 13 points (5-6 shooting), 3 rebounds, 0 assists

Ben Simmons: 0 points (0-1 shooting), 2 rebounds, 1 assist

If these guys are truly going to be the three-headed monster they need to be to compete with the best teams in the league, Simmons is going to have to bring it in the clutch far better than that and not have to rely on such extraordinary performances from the other two.

[elchengue20]

The main problem is Tobias got those points mostly playing in the mid post and even the low post.

That's a terrible fit in crunch time for Simmons, and a bad one for Embiid too.

Basketball in the clutch is played in the halfcourt. Ben can't get his buckets consistenly attacking on the break and he's nearly useless in the halfcourt with this roster construction. Even Embiid only contribution was to make a couple of 3's, wich he can do but it isn't his game at all.

If you have to put your 2 stars in unconfortable spots so you can feed your 3rd star and secondary scorer, clearly you have an important fit problem.

[SparksFly87]

The main problem is Tobias got those points mostly playing in the mid post and even the low post.

That's a terrible fit in crunch time for Simmons, and a bad one for Embiid too.

Basketball in the clutch is played in the halfcourt. Ben can't get his buckets consistenly attacking on the break and he's nearly useless in the halfcourt with this roster construction. Even Embiid only contribution was to make a couple of 3's, wich he can do but it isn't his game at all.

If you have to put your 2 stars in unconfortable spots so you can feed your 3rd star and secondary scorer, clearly you have an important fit problem.

100 percent agree.

Would swap him for Olidipo or Lowry in a heart beat .

[DCasey91]

Yep when all three as the post as their preferred spot it’s never going to work when they all want to get in there.

Things I do not like:

1. Ben and Embiid in the Post together doesn’t work at all. Ben and Embiid at the 3pt line could though because Ben can play the roll man well and should give him a runaway to the rim. They haven’t worked it out but that should come

2. If I see Milton/Korkmaz/Harris halfway to the three point line on the wing and halfway to the bucket when defending because they got sucked in and ended up in no man’s land and there’s an inevitable corner three coming I would sit them immediately.
All three give out free 3 open looks like giving out candy. Saw two from Harris that I knew it was in, the corner three has the best dividends they should never be open. It’s a dumb philosophy that I see for all teams not just us. It’s a stupid concept and should never be seen again lol.


Things I do like:

2. Ben in the post by himself in certain contextual situations can pay out better then everyone else because of his passing and playmaking chops, the little pass to Howard for the dunk is that just replace Howard with Embiid. I was encouraged by what I saw in the raptors game scored from memory 4, 2 and 2 at the line and generated the best and cleanest 4 scoring opportunities.

3. This is coupled with the 2nd point the Embiid post is so blindly obv it can get exploited if we don’t give the opponents different looks. Embiid passing chops will come in due time (his velocity, trajectory and passing to position/passing to where he thinks the player should be isnt consistent yet. that’ll come in time I bet his touch is way too good not to be).

4. There should be a mismatch at all times with all three due to our huge size. That’s our number one calling card. The best 3 point% team in NBA was as hot as you could yet we were only three down midway into the third when our offense was looked a tiny bit better. It was free points in the paint/rebounds as it should be. Exploit that as much as you can because playoffs is about exploiting things/mismatches. If Ben has a mismatch if Harris has a mismatch etc etc.

5. We are legit one key piece away from being true contenders in my eyes so we’re close like we’ve always been just not quite yet.

[davesilver]

Yep when all three as the post as their preferred spot it’s never going to work when they all want to get in there.

Things I do not like:

1. Ben and Embiid in the Post together doesn’t work at all. Ben and Embiid at the 3pt line could though because Ben can play the roll man well and should give him a runaway to the rim. They haven’t worked it out but that should come

Things I do like:

2. Ben in the post by himself in certain contextual situations can pay out better then everyone else because of his passing and playmaking chops, the little pass to Howard for the dunk is that just replace Howard with Embiid. I was encouraged by what I saw in the raptors game scored from memory 4, 2 and 2 at the line and generated the best and cleanest 4 scoring opportunities.

3. This is coupled with the 2nd point the Embiid post is so blindly obv it can get exploited if we don’t give the opponents different looks. Embiid passing chops will come in due time (his velocity, trajectory and passing to position/passing to where he thinks the player should be isnt consistent yet. that’ll come in time I bet his touch is way too good not to be).

4. There should be a mismatch at all times with all three due to our huge size. That’s our number one calling card. The best 3 point% team in NBA was as hot as you could yet we were only three down when our offense was looked a tiny bit better. It was free point in the paint/rebounds as it should be. Exploit that as much as you can because playoffs is about exploiting things/mismatches. If Ben has a mismatch if Harris has a mismatch etc etc.

5. We are legit one key piece away from being true contenders in my eyes so we’re close like we’ve always been just not quite yet.

His name rhymes with Ravine

[Negrodamus]

Weird tone of this thread. Ben is not a realistic option at the end of games or in OT on offense. He's there to make life hard on the opposing team's best ISO scorer.

Embiid played on the perimeter because they were able to isolate Tobias with very favorable matchups and removed the threat of Gobert blocking him.

If we're playing against the Clippers close in the fourth or in overtime, I'd imagine we would go to Embiid since Tobias and Ben would have the matchup of Kawhi and George while Embiid would get Ibaka or Zubac.

It was a very smart move by Doc and won us the game.

[ConstableChaos]

Simmons major improvement this year (apart from hitting FT) is his ability to score in the post on guys who are similairly sized

Agree with the above though in crunch time about the post stuff - BS he can hit that corner 3 (or at least shoot it), he should really be spreading to there at end of game

[DCasey91]

For Ben it’s mental

He shoots basically 70% this year over 5 attempts
And 74% from over 8 attempts. Small sample size but I hazard to guess he needs rhythm like with anyone that plays.

I see no reason why he can’t be a low 30% 3 pointer from the corner it’s the first couple of shots is the hard bit lol. He’s get better at that he’s going to get most of scoring opportunities in first half anyway might as well capitalize on it. In my eyes he’s a plus offensive player overall and certainly elite stuff on the defensive in big games, consistency is key.

[Bum Adebayo]

He can be a decent corner 3pt shooter, it's just that he feels he is much better at other things (at most things really), so he just doesn't bother to even try. I hope he changes this mentality because spacing would improve and make life easier for Embiid and the rest.
Obviously this takes time, but I think with Doc and without Brett, his mentality and effort has improved overall, I think next year he should start shooting corner 3s with more regularity, there is no reason not to, the talent is there.

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, I think Ben's improvements at the FT line and in the post at least make him a theoretical threat in crunch time which is an improvement. He's up to 1.18 points per possession in the post which is a massive improvement from prior years. You could at least potentially hunt mismatches with him against good teams (looking at you Kyrie) and either have him score or carve up a double team. If he eventually find some comfort and success from the corner 3 even better. That'll probably never be Plan A but it's a reasonable adjustment to make with teams overloading on Embiid.

The Tobi, Ben, Embiid fit obviously isn't ideal but it usually comes down to hunting mismatches in the playoffs and we at least have 3 players that are capable of doing that. It gives us some flexibility and a logical plan of attack compared to previous years where it was Joel or bust (outside of the brief Jimmy Butler experience).

[stormi]

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Love how Lebron is always showing Ben love.

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[DCasey91]

If Ben was in the GSW system he’d be a top 15ish player overnight
Wouldn’t surprise me to average 10+ assists in that team. Fwiw 8 assist average for the past two season team setups is some effort lol.

Just don’t want to see Embiid post and Ben in the dunkers spot again it’s stupid. Ben Rollman and Embiid on the 3 point line can.

Always knew Ben was super solid in the post, he’s easily our best playmaker from there with room to operate. Obv Embiid is unstoppable down there but the coverage is very easy to achieve and blanket aka raptors games ago.

Corner three is what I want to see.

[Sportfan73]

It would do absolute wonders if Ben would transition from the dunker spot when he’s not either having the ball or setting a pick to the opposite corner. Take the wide open ones, attack closeouts, and crash for offensive boards. I don’t mind having a post up offense but having it be 4 out would be really nice