MartinToVaught wrote:RingColluder wrote:He was dealing with the loss of a family member.
I understand that, and of course it's hard to play under those circumstances.
On the other hand, being a poor defender, poor rebounder and mediocre-at-best player on offense is never a good mix in the playoffs regardless of the circumstances.
Clemenza wrote:The Utah Jazz can't close games for sh*t either against quality opponents so we're not the only ones trying to iron out the kinks
esqtvd wrote:madmaxmedia wrote:If you look at past Clipper draftees, I think scouting has been more to blame than player development.
If you look at past Clipper veteran acquisitions, we've usually had to take chances on guys with mixed prospects due to cap reasons, with mixed results.
I think on the whole looking at the current FO, we've made a couple of good to great headliner moves (yay!), but very mixed on the smaller moves and draft picks (boo!) The big moves got us Kawhi and PG, but better complementary moves would have really filled out our roster better. That's why we're only a serious playoff contender, and not on a championship favorite/co-favorite level. Improving a team that already has 2 stars (and 2 star contracts) can be like trying to squeeze water from a rock, but that's just what it takes to win a title.
The big question really, is this current level team enough to get Kawhi to re-sign? (I'm assuming for the moment that PG will stay) Because if we lose him, our payroll and assets will really limit our ability to replace him to a meaningful degree.
I make it 90% but I don't take it for granted. Kawhi could also not opt out of the last year on his contract, or opt out and sign a shorter-term contract to see how it goes. He's a 'leave your options open' kind of guy.
I would not count out GSW. It's only 90 minutes by plane from San Diego and Steph Curry is the clutch co-star that Paul George ain't.
RingColluder wrote:Clemenza wrote:The Utah Jazz can't close games for sh*t either against quality opponents so we're not the only ones trying to iron out the kinks
We should be comparing ourselves to the Lakers or Nets, not the 2nd tier yet to prove anything teams with the supposed talent of PG and the actual talent of Kawhi.
Someone Brought up Kawhi leaving, but I Would tell Kawhi to leave this team if we're a first round exit. We are capped out and reliant on arguably the worst max player in the league PG.
Not to mention... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF YEARS FOR KAWHI AND PG's "PRIME".
I truly believe last year was "The year" to steal a ring, but Doc had to **** it up with his lack of adjustments in the Denver series.
This is arguably the last real year we have to win. I'm not counting on Kawhi's knees to hold up nor Morris/Ibaka etc with Bev and Lou already breaking down and PG dealing with a new injury every year. Not every player is LeBron.
And who can forget Luke Kennard at the old age of 24 already dealing with persistent knee issues in his short career.
Who exactly do you feel confident going up against in round 1? Portland, Denver, Dallas, Golden State are all going to be very tough series to win looking at how PG plays in primetime games. Please make a trade and give us something to hope for
#FIRELAWRENCEFRANK
RingColluder wrote:MartinToVaught wrote:RingColluder wrote:
I know you have never been a Trez fan, but Zu who you constantly wanted to play more minutes has looked awful this season. Harrell could at least help our post game and added a new element to our stillted offense and helped Lou Williams contribute as well better than he has lately. I'd argue our paint defense looks even worse ow than last year and we have 0 reliability from the 2nd team this season thanks to Kennard doing nothing and role players like Reggie inconsistent. Trez for 2 years 18 was a steal, the bad attitude stuff is totally overblown given it looks like this team will fall even sooner than last year's team.
IN many ways it appears Zu either has confidence issues or his stats and game were overinflated playing w the starters on a more daily basis last season. Who is going to trade for him? No one.
Even you would have to say he's regressed. The commentators spent all of the Bucks game talking about Ty Lue's comments towards Zur regarding dunks and he mangled 3 of them. His hands are garbage and he is not doing enough on the defensive end to offset that.
How did Trez's post game work out in the playoffs? Let's not pretend like he was some superstar on offense, even though he seems to think he is. I remember times when he would wave off Kawhi and PG to run isos for himself. He also wasn't rebounding or playing defense.
If you've watched Trez on the Lakers, you'd notice that he warms the bench in fourth quarters against teams with good big men. Unlike Doc, Vogel's rotations are based on merit, not favoritism. Trez just isn't that good and isn't the answer for any of this team's issues. We need a legit point guard and a rim protector.
As I've been saying since last season, the mistake wasn't moving on from Trez - the mistake was not trading him while we had the chance.
He was dealing with the loss of a family member. A much more understandable excuse than getting chicken wings at a strip club.
Again you fail to mention Zu whatsoever. He has REGRESSED. Weren't there people here talking about him being a potential All Star here last year LMAO. We won't even come close to a game 7 in round 2 with this current roster. You're telling me we'd be worse or the same Trez on our bench right now? Please.
2 years 18 million is a joke of a contract. We should have kept him at that levels and Ty Lue would have figured out the rest.
RingColluder wrote:Clemenza wrote:The Utah Jazz can't close games for sh*t either against quality opponents so we're not the only ones trying to iron out the kinks
We should be comparing ourselves to the Lakers or Nets, not the 2nd tier yet to prove anything teams with the supposed talent of PG and the actual talent of Kawhi.
Someone Brought up Kawhi leaving, but I Would tell Kawhi to leave this team if we're a first round exit. We are capped out and reliant on arguably the worst max player in the league PG.
Not to mention... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF YEARS FOR KAWHI AND PG's "PRIME".
I truly believe last year was "The year" to steal a ring, but Doc had to **** it up with his lack of adjustments in the Denver series.
This is arguably the last real year we have to win. I'm not counting on Kawhi's knees to hold up nor Morris/Ibaka etc with Bev and Lou already breaking down and PG dealing with a new injury every year. Not every player is LeBron.
And who can forget Luke Kennard at the old age of 24 already dealing with persistent knee issues in his short career.
Who exactly do you feel confident going up against in round 1? Portland, Denver, Dallas, Golden State are all going to be very tough series to win looking at how PG plays in primetime games. Please make a trade and give us something to hope for
#FIRELAWRENCEFRANK
Clemenza wrote:esqtvd wrote:madmaxmedia wrote:If you look at past Clipper draftees, I think scouting has been more to blame than player development.
If you look at past Clipper veteran acquisitions, we've usually had to take chances on guys with mixed prospects due to cap reasons, with mixed results.
I think on the whole looking at the current FO, we've made a couple of good to great headliner moves (yay!), but very mixed on the smaller moves and draft picks (boo!) The big moves got us Kawhi and PG, but better complementary moves would have really filled out our roster better. That's why we're only a serious playoff contender, and not on a championship favorite/co-favorite level. Improving a team that already has 2 stars (and 2 star contracts) can be like trying to squeeze water from a rock, but that's just what it takes to win a title.
The big question really, is this current level team enough to get Kawhi to re-sign? (I'm assuming for the moment that PG will stay) Because if we lose him, our payroll and assets will really limit our ability to replace him to a meaningful degree.
I make it 90% but I don't take it for granted. Kawhi could also not opt out of the last year on his contract, or opt out and sign a shorter-term contract to see how it goes. He's a 'leave your options open' kind of guy.
I would not count out GSW. It's only 90 minutes by plane from San Diego and Steph Curry is the clutch co-star that Paul George ain't.
Kawhi is going to have to lock down a longer term deal which will probably be his last big max deal career wise. Wouldn't be smart to do a short term deal with his chronic knee issues and his age creeping up. Really only iron man Bron can do that type of maneuver. And of course Steph Curry the 3x champion 2x MVP of the league would be the ultimate co-star.. it goes without saying. Not sure how the Warriors would be able to afford Kawhi as well as the fact that he would have to change his game in Golden State. That iso-hold the ball up is not flying up there
Are We Having Fun Yet?og15 wrote:RingColluder wrote:Clemenza wrote:The Utah Jazz can't close games for sh*t either against quality opponents so we're not the only ones trying to iron out the kinks
We should be comparing ourselves to the Lakers or Nets, not the 2nd tier yet to prove anything teams with the supposed talent of PG and the actual talent of Kawhi.
Someone Brought up Kawhi leaving, but I Would tell Kawhi to leave this team if we're a first round exit. We are capped out and reliant on arguably the worst max player in the league PG.
Not to mention... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF YEARS FOR KAWHI AND PG's "PRIME".
I truly believe last year was "The year" to steal a ring, but Doc had to **** it up with his lack of adjustments in the Denver series.
This is arguably the last real year we have to win. I'm not counting on Kawhi's knees to hold up nor Morris/Ibaka etc with Bev and Lou already breaking down and PG dealing with a new injury every year. Not every player is LeBron.
And who can forget Luke Kennard at the old age of 24 already dealing with persistent knee issues in his short career.
Who exactly do you feel confident going up against in round 1? Portland, Denver, Dallas, Golden State are all going to be very tough series to win looking at how PG plays in primetime games. Please make a trade and give us something to hope for
#FIRELAWRENCEFRANK
The worst max player in the league? lol
Alternate reality? What happened to Westbrook, Wall, etc?
TheNewEra wrote:RingColluder wrote:MartinToVaught wrote:How did Trez's post game work out in the playoffs? Let's not pretend like he was some superstar on offense, even though he seems to think he is. I remember times when he would wave off Kawhi and PG to run isos for himself. He also wasn't rebounding or playing defense.
If you've watched Trez on the Lakers, you'd notice that he warms the bench in fourth quarters against teams with good big men. Unlike Doc, Vogel's rotations are based on merit, not favoritism. Trez just isn't that good and isn't the answer for any of this team's issues. We need a legit point guard and a rim protector.
As I've been saying since last season, the mistake wasn't moving on from Trez - the mistake was not trading him while we had the chance.
He was dealing with the loss of a family member. A much more understandable excuse than getting chicken wings at a strip club.
Again you fail to mention Zu whatsoever. He has REGRESSED. Weren't there people here talking about him being a potential All Star here last year LMAO. We won't even come close to a game 7 in round 2 with this current roster. You're telling me we'd be worse or the same Trez on our bench right now? Please.
2 years 18 million is a joke of a contract. We should have kept him at that levels and Ty Lue would have figured out the rest.
Do you see how hard the lakers have to work to hide Trez defensively? He’s a terrible defender and locker room risk. Zu has and will continue to be the option and frankly player with his development on both ends.
Being delusional won’t make your point true regardless of Zu scores or not from second chance opportunities to on and off ball screening he impacts the game.
So please stop with these pointless rants
Clemenza wrote:RingColluder wrote:Clemenza wrote:The Utah Jazz can't close games for sh*t either against quality opponents so we're not the only ones trying to iron out the kinks
We should be comparing ourselves to the Lakers or Nets, not the 2nd tier yet to prove anything teams with the supposed talent of PG and the actual talent of Kawhi.
Someone Brought up Kawhi leaving, but I Would tell Kawhi to leave this team if we're a first round exit. We are capped out and reliant on arguably the worst max player in the league PG.
Not to mention... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF YEARS FOR KAWHI AND PG's "PRIME".
I truly believe last year was "The year" to steal a ring, but Doc had to **** it up with his lack of adjustments in the Denver series.
This is arguably the last real year we have to win. I'm not counting on Kawhi's knees to hold up nor Morris/Ibaka etc with Bev and Lou already breaking down and PG dealing with a new injury every year. Not every player is LeBron.
And who can forget Luke Kennard at the old age of 24 already dealing with persistent knee issues in his short career.
Who exactly do you feel confident going up against in round 1? Portland, Denver, Dallas, Golden State are all going to be very tough series to win looking at how PG plays in primetime games. Please make a trade and give us something to hope for
#FIRELAWRENCEFRANK
Nets got the stars but they haven't won sh*t yet. Harden has the same post season demons as PG and Durant and Kyrie stay injured. Lakers caught huge break in the bubble as us and teams like the Bucks and Celtics choked. Bron might be gassed come playoff time and AD is a question mark for the rest of the season. Most definitely we need a WCF/Finals appearance before these guys get older and more injury prone. I'm just bringing out how we're not the only team that has to work some sh*t out even though the media makes like we're the only ones and loves to hype teams like the Suns and Jazz over us. And PG is far from the worst max player out there. I want deep playoff run and a championship ring for the team but if something happens and Kawhi bolts then f*ck it is what it is. Its literally out of our hands.
But when everybody talks that Kawhi could leave sh*t just do us all a favor and let us know what warm climate city he's going to, who has max money for him, who's down for his load management, who's pushing their other stars to the background to run the offense through Kawhi, who's giving him say in the front office,who's sitting down with his Uncle Dennis for his list of demands, etc. etc. etc. If he was a no frills pack his bags and bolt to the next town type star like a Kevin Durant or CP3 it would be a different story. But we're talking about Kawhi here.
RingColluder wrote:Clemenza wrote:RingColluder wrote:
We should be comparing ourselves to the Lakers or Nets, not the 2nd tier yet to prove anything teams with the supposed talent of PG and the actual talent of Kawhi.
Someone Brought up Kawhi leaving, but I Would tell Kawhi to leave this team if we're a first round exit. We are capped out and reliant on arguably the worst max player in the league PG.
Not to mention... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF YEARS FOR KAWHI AND PG's "PRIME".
I truly believe last year was "The year" to steal a ring, but Doc had to **** it up with his lack of adjustments in the Denver series.
This is arguably the last real year we have to win. I'm not counting on Kawhi's knees to hold up nor Morris/Ibaka etc with Bev and Lou already breaking down and PG dealing with a new injury every year. Not every player is LeBron.
And who can forget Luke Kennard at the old age of 24 already dealing with persistent knee issues in his short career.
Who exactly do you feel confident going up against in round 1? Portland, Denver, Dallas, Golden State are all going to be very tough series to win looking at how PG plays in primetime games. Please make a trade and give us something to hope for
#FIRELAWRENCEFRANK
Nets got the stars but they haven't won sh*t yet. Harden has the same post season demons as PG and Durant and Kyrie stay injured. Lakers caught huge break in the bubble as us and teams like the Bucks and Celtics choked. Bron might be gassed come playoff time and AD is a question mark for the rest of the season. Most definitely we need a WCF/Finals appearance before these guys get older and more injury prone. I'm just bringing out how we're not the only team that has to work some sh*t out even though the media makes like we're the only ones and loves to hype teams like the Suns and Jazz over us. And PG is far from the worst max player out there. I want deep playoff run and a championship ring for the team but if something happens and Kawhi bolts then f*ck it is what it is. Its literally out of our hands.
But when everybody talks that Kawhi could leave sh*t just do us all a favor and let us know what warm climate city he's going to, who has max money for him, who's down for his load management, who's pushing their other stars to the background to run the offense through Kawhi, who's giving him say in the front office,who's sitting down with his Uncle Dennis for his list of demands, etc. etc. etc. If he was a no frills pack his bags and bolt to the next town type star like a Kevin Durant or CP3 it would be a different story. But we're talking about Kawhi here.
Lots of excuses here, ending with "if Kawhi bolts it is what it is". HELL. NO. We need to do whatever it takes to keep Kawhi here with virtually 0 draft picks and 0 cap space. We will be the laughing stock of the league for the next 5 years without a deep playoff run.
I'd say a WCF matchup that goes 6-7 is at minimum our level for even supposed "success". I'm from the school of championship of bust given the supposed talent on this team but apparently people's standards here are longer.
My guess is Kawhi signs a 1 + 1 again and reassess or demands a trade if things go completely haywire.
RingColluder wrote:This is utterly laughable. He has REGRESSED. The only thing delusional is some of the posters unwillingness to admit how wrong they were about him. He should have stepped up this season without Trez and instead he's getting exposed.
MartinToVaught wrote:RingColluder wrote:This is utterly laughable. He has REGRESSED. The only thing delusional is some of the posters unwillingness to admit how wrong they were about him. He should have stepped up this season without Trez and instead he's getting exposed.
What were we wrong about? We 100% would have won the Denver series last season if Zu simply got all of Trez's minutes. Nothing Zu does this year changes that.
The biggest problems the Clippers have right now are that we need a point guard and a rim protector. Trez addresses none of those issues. The idea that we'd be a substantially better team right now with Trez has no basis in reality, which is why your only argument is to deflect to Zu's recent struggles (as if that somehow makes Trez a good defender).
madmaxmedia wrote:Zu is no All Star, but he is on a reasonable contract for what he can do.
The debate about Trezz heading into free agency was how much would he be worth offering? He ended up with a reasonably team-friendly deal, but for us the answer turned out to be zero anyway, when Ibaka became available and was a better fit.
esqtvd wrote:clipperlover wrote:esqtvd wrote:[Sterling would not eat Cunningham's contract so we could keep Ingles.]
FAKE NEWS that Doc was spouting and didn't get called out on. Joe Ingles never came to the Clippers until Oct 2014 (2014-2015 pre-season). Ballmer was the owner at that time. Doc lied to the media about this when questioned about why the Clippers didn't keep Ingles. Doc blamed it on prior ownership.
You're right about the dates. Doc didn't mention Sterling by name.
Irrelevant to the point being discussed here, however, which was Doc as coach not GM. And Ingles was a Clipper for only a few weeks and technically never was a Clipper, just a non-roster camp invitee. The point here is that no player languished here and went on to success with another organization. Bullock is the only possible example and it's quite a weak one. He was still crap for several years and at his peak was only a marginal player. Plus he was traded for Austin Rivers, who contributed immediately.
clipperlover wrote:esqtvd wrote:clipperlover wrote:
FAKE NEWS that Doc was spouting and didn't get called out on. Joe Ingles never came to the Clippers until Oct 2014 (2014-2015 pre-season). Ballmer was the owner at that time. Doc lied to the media about this when questioned about why the Clippers didn't keep Ingles. Doc blamed it on prior ownership.
You're right about the dates. Doc didn't mention Sterling by name.
Irrelevant to the point being discussed here, however, which was Doc as coach not GM. And Ingles was a Clipper for only a few weeks and technically never was a Clipper, just a non-roster camp invitee. The point here is that no player languished here and went on to success with another organization. Bullock is the only possible example and it's quite a weak one. He was still crap for several years and at his peak was only a marginal player. Plus he was traded for Austin Rivers, who contributed immediately.
Doc tried to pin the blame on Sterling when it was his decision. Here was his exact quote:
“I said it the day we released him that this was a bad decision and that we’re going to regret it,” he said. “Unfortunately I was working for someone who said we couldn’t eat a contract. We were begging to eat one contract and they said that will never happen and we had to let him go.”
Sorry, Doc, but that was your call. You had ALL the power AND just received a fat contract extension two months prior.
TVD, it is crap like that why people were more than happy to see the guy go. Nothing was ever his fault. With the Ingles comment, he just thought he could absolve himself of responsibility by blaming Sterling instead and people would just believe him.
https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-hc-doc-rivers-mistakenly-alludes-to-steve-ballmer-as-the-reason-why-los-angeles-let-joe-ingles-go/
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/24/15406152/joe-ingles-doc-rivers-history-clippers-jazz-playoffs
https://www.deseret.com/2019/1/17/20663550/los-angeles-clippers-rivers-still-laments-letting-joe-ingles-get-away-all-those-years-ago
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