WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

TrueFan420 · Post #981 » by **TrueFan420** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 5:23 pm

Is the all star break going to be the longest consecutive time he’s had to train/practice with the team since being drafted?

and1GS · Post #982 » by **and1GS** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 5:28 pm

TrueFan420 wrote:Is the all star break going to be the longest consecutive time he’s had to train/practice with the team since being drafted?

Yes.

clyde21 · Post #983 » by **clyde21** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 7:53 pm

freypies wrote:
clyde21 wrote:the LaMelo love isn't gonna last long, just like Trae, was always the type of player to look way better on the box scores than he does IRL in terms of the W/L column.

we should not have picked Wiseman, that is pretty clear, but it's not because we should've taken Melo instead. the two obvious choices were staring us in the face: Hali and Vassell via a trade down but now this convo is just groundhog day at this point

also if the Myers seriously drafted Wiseman just because he liked him at dinner, he should be fired on the spot. unacceptable. but of course my expectations for Myers as POBO is waning more and more everyday.

What are you basing this off of though? Impact metrics (all that I have seen - EPM/BPM/RPM/RAPTOR) rate LaMelo as a net positive, and the Hornets are playing .500 ball with him starting despite time being missed by Graham/Zeller/Hayward occasionally in that span. He is putting up points efficiently for a rookie and has a great AST:TO ratio. What is your reasoning behind thinking he doesn't impact winning?

i'm not gonna turn this into another convo about LaMelo, I will give you that he's looked better than I expected, specifically his shooting if he can keep it up, but I have little faith in building a winner around him as the primary guard, the same way I had little faith in D-Lo and Trae, like I said about them and said about Melo, their will be easy 20/10 guys in the league by virtue of their usage and position and today's NBA, but I think over time with more usage those flaws and cracks in his profile will show more and more like they did with D-Lo and now starting to show with Trae.

regardless, for the Warriors specifically, guys like Hali and Vassell were the obvious choices imo, but apparently Myers made his decision over some dinner if the reports are accurate. :banghead:

Onus · Post #984 » by **Onus** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 7:59 pm

What exactly can wiseman fall back on. Like what is it that he does well right now on the basketball court?

and1GS · Post #985 » by **and1GS** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 8:20 pm

At his absolute worst he can dunk/finish from dunker spot, take up airspace on D and promotes spacing when he isn't at the hoop due to his range.

When we're talking what he can fall back on that's pretty good.

Post #986 » by **FNQ** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 8:22 pm

Onus wrote:What exactly can wiseman fall back on. Like what is it that he does well right now on the basketball court?

I think he has a solid midrange jumper, for whatever thats worth. Finishes quickly too, but he doesnt know how to put himself in that position very often yet.

And thats pretty much it. Besides that he's just a skeleton prospect at this point. Which again isn't that unexpected for a kid coming off an injury, but the list of players I'd deal him for is getting longer as the year goes on.

Christian Wood I think would be a fantastic target if the Rockets were amenable to it.. and since Oladipo probably is out the door at season's end, they just might be. But Wiseman will do more than he has recently, because recently he's looked entirely overmatched at the NBA level

Old_Blue · Post #987 » by **Old_Blue** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 11:58 pm

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:What exactly can wiseman fall back on. Like what is it that he does well right now on the basketball court?

I think he has a solid midrange jumper, for whatever thats worth. Finishes quickly too, but he doesnt know how to put himself in that position very often yet.

And thats pretty much it. Besides that he's just a skeleton prospect at this point. Which again isn't that unexpected for a kid coming off an injury, but the list of players I'd deal him for is getting longer as the year goes on.

Christian Wood I think would be a fantastic target if the Rockets were amenable to it.. and since Oladipo probably is out the door at season's end, they just might be. But Wiseman will do more than he has recently, because recently he's looked entirely overmatched at the NBA level

I can't argue with your assessment. It's sad to think that Wiseman is likely worth less in trade than was the #2 pick before we drafted him.

Onus · Post #988 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 12:52 am

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:What exactly can wiseman fall back on. Like what is it that he does well right now on the basketball court?

I think he has a solid midrange jumper, for whatever thats worth. Finishes quickly too, but he doesnt know how to put himself in that position very often yet.

And thats pretty much it. Besides that he's just a skeleton prospect at this point. Which again isn't that unexpected for a kid coming off an injury, but the list of players I'd deal him for is getting longer as the year goes on.

Christian Wood I think would be a fantastic target if the Rockets were amenable to it.. and since Oladipo probably is out the door at season's end, they just might be. But Wiseman will do more than he has recently, because recently he's looked entirely overmatched at the NBA level

I don't like his jumper at all. He's too willing to settle for his jumper and he's not particularly good at it right now. I think he's in the 30% range on jumpers. I do think his ability to finish quickly is probably his best attribute right now. I wish he worked on his iso game

cpower · Post #989 » by **cpower** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:06 am

wiseman is on the path to become the next bargnani

whatisacenter · Post #990 » by **whatisacenter** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:10 am

Yeah, twenty some games out of HS but it’s clear what type of player he will be. It’s sad, the warriors would be lucky to pair of used socks for him in a trade.

Upperclass · Post #991 » by **Upperclass** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 4:59 am

He's not instinctive.. aggressive nor natural with his play.. that doesn't usually spell good things for a post player. He will likely go on a run of dominant games late in the season when the playoffs have been settled but will myers have the confidence to trade him with higher value before the next draft..

Onus · Post #992 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:11 am

Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

Warriors Analyst · Post #993 » by **Warriors Analyst** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:15 am

Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.

Onus · Post #994 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:18 am

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.

He definitely shies away from contact which isn’t good. Which is why I’m worried about him settling for jumpers. But he’s also always getting pushed out of position and pushed around and just getting abused by anyone that touches him.

northoakland510 · Post #995 » by **northoakland510** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:18 am

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.

I doubt he hates contact , just hasn't had to deal with it.

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Onus · Post #996 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:22 am

northoakland510 wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.
I doubt he hates contact , just hasn't had to deal with it.

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Penny had to change wisemans hs so he could get beat up. It’s not something that wiseman grew up doing

Old_Blue · Post #997 » by **Old_Blue** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:30 am

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.

Wiseman looks completely dispirited. There's not even a pretense of trying to defend or grab a board. Last one up the court despite being only 19 years old doesn't look too good either. When the season started. I was thinking Wiseman might compare to Marvin Bagley. Now, that comparison appears like a remotely possible ceiling. The sad thing is that the kid has all the physical tools in the world. If he fails, it's going to be due to what's going on between his ears.

Onus · Post #998 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:32 am

They really need to simplify the game for wiseman. Give him a couple of things to focus on so that he feels like he’s having small successes. Whether that’s boxing out every time the ball goes up, or getting an assist, or setting screens. He really needs a small role and find something that he can be successful at.

Onus · Post #999 » by **Onus** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:33 am

Old_Blue wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:Is wiseman’s trainer going to stop working with him? Because his body and strength were not even close to being ready for the season. He’s just getting ragged dolled by everyone.

His body isn't the problem. His issue is that he hates contact.

Wiseman looks completely dispirited. There's not even a pretense of trying to defend or grab a board. Last one up the court despite being only 19 years old doesn't look too good either. When the season started. I was thinking Wiseman might compare to Marvin Bagley. Now, that comparison appears like a remotely possible ceiling. The sad thing is that the kid has all the physical tools in the world. If he fails, it's going to be due to what's going on between his ears.

Agree you can see him losing confidence and getting dejected

TwoStarz · Post #1000 » by **TwoStarz** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 7:36 am

Everyone keeps saying things need to be simplified for the young pup but what’s simpler than “go get an offensive board”. A big with his size should have no problem routinely dropping 10/10 simply off of putbacks, especially on a team that severely lacks rebounding. But this is where his poor feel for the game shines, he has no idea how to position himself on the court. The fact that he gets dejected over busting his ass off and getting boards to make an impact says a lot about this kid.

The more I watch him the more I walk away with the conclusion that he struggles to read the game. You can’t teach basketball instincts, you either have them or you don’t.