NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[Funcrusher]

I didnt say Embiid doesnt deserve the MVP, I am just saying the race is not over related to the media narrative.

Embiid is a clearly better defender, but Jokic for example was in TOP 5 in steals per game almost the whole season, he improved a lot.

You cant compare Westbrook to Jokic in terms of the way of achieving triple doubles. One is stat padding, the other one is playing the right way. Jokic has 20+ games where he missed the triple double for 1 rebound or 1 assist.

I know, I didn't mention MVP, I'm just talking about who the better player is.
If Jokic is better than Embiid at the offensive end (because of passing), its not a huge margin.
Whereas there is a huge margin between Embiid and Jokic at the defensive end.
Steals don't change that either, otherwise Iverson would have been considered a great defender....
I'm not comparing Westbrook to Jokic, I'm saying neither of them are 2-way players, so neither of them are the best player in the NBA.....whereas Embiid is the best player in the NBA right now.

There is actually a huge gap offensively between joker and Joel. Especially if you look past this one season. Embiid has been ass offensively in the playoffs while joker has been dominant.

But whatever way you slice it, regular season, playoffs, peak seaso, joker is a lot better offensively.

Don't kill me for saying this but (this year) I don't think the gap is humongous. Just like I've never thought the gap between them defensively was ever humongous, but that obviously means I'm lower on Embiid's defense than the consensus. He's really good, but I kind of value pure rim protectors less and less nowadays and even in that respect someone like Gobert is significantly better. Still, Joker is obviously a tier above Embiid offensively, and on defense vice versa.

[Sixerscan]

Sixers Embiid on: +11.6 net rating
Embiid off: -6.5

Nuggets Jokic on: +6.8
Jokic off: -0.3

If the Sixers were -0.3 with Embiid off they'd be what like 30-6? That's probably high but point stands.

[Dupp]

Sixers Embiid on: +11.6 net rating
Embiid off: -6.5

Nuggets Jokic on: +6.8
Jokic off: -0.3

If the Sixers were -0.3 with Embiid off they'd be what like 30-6? That's probably high but point stands.

Is that off counting the games Joel misses? Because being gone for a whole game is a big difference to having a rest on the bench and embiids missed a bunch of games.

[Sixerscan]

Sixers Embiid on: +11.6 net rating
Embiid off: -6.5

Nuggets Jokic on: +6.8
Jokic off: -0.3

If the Sixers were -0.3 with Embiid off they'd be what like 30-6? That's probably high but point stands.

Is that off counting the games Joel misses? Because being gone for a whole game is a big difference to having a rest on the bench and embiids missed a bunch of games.

Maybe, haven't looked into that.

[JN61]

I wrote the same thing in another thread. I am shocked that people and "analysts" are behaving as Embiid has a lock on the MVP award.

I mean Jokic has currently the highest PER in nba history, is better than Embiid in all advanced stats and is also almost averaging a 27 PPG triple-double. Oh yeah, I forgot about the Nuggets not winning games narrative. The Nuggets would be 4th in the East, and they are currently only 3 games behind the 76ers with half the season yet to be played.

But how can you be better than Embiid when you aren't even a 2-way player? No amount of PER can change that.
Embiid is elite at both ends, while Jokic is clearly not.
Its like Westbrook averaging a triple-double.....he's not a 2-way player, so he's not considered the best in the NBA.

I didnt say Embiid doesnt deserve the MVP, I am just saying the race is not over related to the media narrative.

Embiid is a clearly better defender, but Jokic for example was in TOP 5 in steals per game almost the whole season, he improved a lot.

You cant compare Westbrook to Jokic in terms of the way of achieving triple doubles. One is stat padding, the other one is playing the right way. Jokic has 20+ games where he missed the triple double for 1 rebound or 1 assist.

I'm sure Westbrook missed triple double more times than Jokic has this season in his MVP season by 1-2 stats... This year both players have missed 7 TDs by 2 stats... Westbrook is just a better rebounder and had to do more for his team back then which ultimately lead to the better team success. We will see if Jokic is ready to take entire Denver on his back like Westbrook did while winning. If he does, he is sure fire MVP.

[JN61]

Jokic became the second center with 50 triple doubles, but he did it like 200 games faster than the first, Wilt Chamberlain.

When asked about it, Joker said, "It's an honor to be in that group. Wait... is it a group? There's only two of us."

Wow that’s an insane little stat.

200 games faster than Wilt? borderline unbelievable with the crazy stat lines Wilt put up..

If they tracked blocks and steals, Wilt probably had 50 triple doubles in 1962 alone.

Yes. Wilt would be holding the unbreakable TD record with well over 500 of them no doubt so it is kind of unfair for him to try compare modern players to his achievements on stats like this.

[rzzzzz]

Yes. Wilt would be holding the unbreakable TD record with well over 500 of them no doubt so it is kind of unfair for him to try compare modern players to his achievements on stats like this.

Wilt was one of a kind. So was Russell, for that matter. Can’t hold it against either of them that we won’t see their like again.

[scrabbarista]

Wow that’s an insane little stat.

200 games faster than Wilt? borderline unbelievable with the crazy stat lines Wilt put up..

If they tracked blocks and steals, Wilt probably had 50 triple doubles in 1962 alone.

Yes. Wilt would be holding the unbreakable TD record with well over 500 of them no doubt so it is kind of unfair for him to try compare modern players to his achievements on stats like this.

Well, then I guess we should leave Wilt out.

In that case, Jokic is the only center with 50 triple douples. And he just turned 26 two weeks ago.

[LordCovington33]

Both players have been excellent but it’s too early to call anything at this stage since the season is just halfway finished.

[chaimer]

Both players have been excellent but it’s too early to call anything at this stage since the season is just halfway finished.

I would not be surprised, if this will be an open discussion until the last 2 weeks of the season. Top teams will have a very close records and couple of wins might shift the wave.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Both players have been excellent but it’s too early to call anything at this stage since the season is just halfway finished.

Yeah, putting on my homer glasses and throwing in my guy Giannis as an example. There is a 12 day period in late April and Early May where the Bucks play the Sixers 2x and Nets 2x. Unlikely, but if Giannis goes 4-0 with big games to put them a top of the conference and he continues the rest of the season based on his February numbers, it would be really, really hard not to make him the favorite. Then again Bucks could go 0-4 and Embiid/Harden shows their superiority. Just too early to know.

[Sharkboy242]

The Nuggets next 10 games are all versus teams under .500 except Dallas. Should be a good opportunity for them to rack up Ws for Jokic MVP case!

[BoatsNZones]

Joker has immense MVP betting value right now.

[Dupp]

Joker has immense MVP betting value right now.

I got him pre season at 22-1 be then after three games at 34-1.... Those odds were insane.

[BoatsNZones]

Joker has immense MVP betting value right now.

I got him pre season at 22-1 be then after three games at 34-1.... Those odds were insane.

You’re a smart guy. I think he will be the odds on favorite or co favorite in 3 weeks. All the stats are there for them and the narrative will take shape as they pass the Spurs and Blazers in the next week.

[JN61]

Both players have been excellent but it’s too early to call anything at this stage since the season is just halfway finished.

Yeah, putting on my homer glasses and throwing in my guy Giannis as an example. There is a 12 day period in late April and Early May where the Bucks play the Sixers 2x and Nets 2x. Unlikely, but if Giannis goes 4-0 with big games to put them a top of the conference and he continues the rest of the season based on his February numbers, it would be really, really hard not to make him the favorite. Then again Bucks could go 0-4 and Embiid/Harden shows their superiority. Just too early to know.

You know voters will be having voters fatigue especially with the weak start the bucks had. It's unfortunate but that's most likely guaranteed. I can see him only winning it if they went lossless basically for the rest of the season.

[NADALalot]

I think you should need to make the All-Defensive team (1st or 2nd) to be in the running for MVP, unless none of the MVP contenders are elite defenders. Jokic should need to be All-Defense, because Embiid will be. But I know this isn't how voters think, since they've given MVP to many non-defensive players. 2-way players should be taken more seriously, because of how difficult it is to expend energy at both ends.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Both players have been excellent but it’s too early to call anything at this stage since the season is just halfway finished.

Yeah, putting on my homer glasses and throwing in my guy Giannis as an example. There is a 12 day period in late April and Early May where the Bucks play the Sixers 2x and Nets 2x. Unlikely, but if Giannis goes 4-0 with big games to put them a top of the conference and he continues the rest of the season based on his February numbers, it would be really, really hard not to make him the favorite. Then again Bucks could go 0-4 and Embiid/Harden shows their superiority. Just too early to know.

You know voters will be having voters fatigue especially with the weak start the bucks had. It's unfortunate but that's most likely guaranteed. I can see him only winning it if they went lossless basically for the rest of the season.

I dont disagree, but meant to say SHOULD be the favorite whether the media votes for him or not under that scenario.

[Sharkboy242]

I think you should need to make the All-Defensive team (1st or 2nd) to be in the running for MVP, unless none of the MVP contenders are elite defenders. Jokic should need to be All-Defense, because Embiid will be. But I know this isn't how voters think, since they've given MVP to many non-defensive players. 2-way players should be taken more seriously, because of how difficult it is to expend energy at both ends.

The mental gymnastics one has to go through in order to justify not giving the MVP to the best player this season.

[MindState]

I think you should need to make the All-Defensive team (1st or 2nd) to be in the running for MVP, unless none of the MVP contenders are elite defenders. Jokic should need to be All-Defense, because Embiid will be. But I know this isn't how voters think, since they've given MVP to many non-defensive players. 2-way players should be taken more seriously, because of how difficult it is to expend energy at both ends.

Terrible take.

Not even gonna go into detail why.