The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[Indeed]

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

None of the top 5 are likely to be as good as Chet Holmgren (draft next year) but the fact that there are 5 players possibly identified as really good makes it less of a crap shoot. Say all of them are on par with Lamelo and Haliburton but you know that they are grouped. Also the rest of the top 10 are on par with Edwards, Wiseman and Vassell.

Crazy, it seems that NBADraft.net has dropped Jalen Johnson all the way down to #23 for quitting on Duke! No way Greg Brown should be taken ahead of Johnson.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

People would still draft Jalen Johnson (6'9) over Isaiah Todd (if legit 6'10) right?

You are not seeing many undersized players at the end of the draft, which is an indication that you still have some good players down the bottom.

This draft is being strong is not limited to the top 5, but it seems you may get a lottery talent even at pick like #20.

[Dalek]

I’m most intrigued by Green and Kuminga. I wonder how Green will look in the NBA, he’s got elite athleticism and promising skill but doesn’t have a freakish physique.

Cade looks like he will have a high floor but doesn’t look like he’s as fast/fluent as the other two. Not sure how that will translate in the NBA.

Doesn’t matter though we aren’t drafting anywhere near them

It seems like Cade has freedom to run P&R and do whatever he wants and that has him forcing things. I was shocked how many dumb passes he makes. I think giving him more structure. Right now he seems like an athletic Boris Diaw with better handles and better shooting.

Let's hope that Barnes, Bouknight, Keon Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Kispert, Cooper and Moody all get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson.

Who else could get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson? Sengun, Garuba, Springer, Wagner?

FYI, Tankathon finally has Petrusev into the 1st round at #27. http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Does he remind of JV?

Petrusev has been so steady with Mega and it has been an incredible turnaround for a guy who shot 18% from three in his last year. This year he is up to 45%. He is a lot like Bargs, and kind of makes me think of Ryan Anderson.

Jalen Johnson falling would be a surprise. He is from Duke and already you get a bias from the NBA which will tend to look at guys from big programs.

Speaking of big programs, for bigs, I have been seeing some really strong play from Isaiah Jackson from Kentucky. Here is a 6'10" ; 7'3" winsgpan with great athleticism. He ended up the fastest sprinter on the team and his running really reminds me of Pascal. He doesn't have huge hands, but he is high-high energy and is just a multi-effort, multi-bounce athlete.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AIRHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=TheScoutingRapport

Isaiah Jackson has a 12.9% block rate and a 2.1% steal rate, and leads the SEC in blocks and defensive rebound %. For a freshman, he has looked great. By comparison to other Kentucky alums here's how Jackson block rate comps: Anthony Davis (13.8%), Nerlens Noel (13.2%), and Willie Cauley-Stein (12.3%). Jackson does foul a lot, so that does take away from his numbers.

He doesn't shoot the three, but he shoots 70% from the freethrow line so this guy could end up a first rounder.

[Psubs]

I’m most intrigued by Green and Kuminga. I wonder how Green will look in the NBA, he’s got elite athleticism and promising skill but doesn’t have a freakish physique.

Cade looks like he will have a high floor but doesn’t look like he’s as fast/fluent as the other two. Not sure how that will translate in the NBA.

Doesn’t matter though we aren’t drafting anywhere near them

It seems like Cade has freedom to run P&R and do whatever he wants and that has him forcing things. I was shocked how many dumb passes he makes. I think giving him more structure. Right now he seems like an athletic Boris Diaw with better handles and better shooting.

Let's hope that Barnes, Bouknight, Keon Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Kispert, Cooper and Moody all get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson.

Who else could get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson? Sengun, Garuba, Springer, Wagner?

FYI, Tankathon finally has Petrusev into the 1st round at #27. http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Does he remind of JV?

Petrusev has been so steady with Mega and it has been an incredible turnaround for a guy who shot 18% from three in his last year. This year he is up to 45%. He is a lot like Bargs, and kind of makes me think of Ryan Anderson.

Jalen Johnson falling would be a surprise. He is from Duke and already you get a bias from the NBA which will tend to look at guys from big programs.

Speaking of big programs, for bigs, I have been seeing some really strong play from Isaiah Jackson from Kentucky. Here is a 6'10" ; 7'3" winsgpan with great athleticism. He ended up the fastest sprinter on the team and his running really reminds me of Pascal. He doesn't have huge hands, but he is high-high energy and is just a multi-effort, multi-bounce athlete.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AIRHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=TheScoutingRapport

Isaiah Jackson has a 12.9% block rate and a 2.1% steal rate, and leads the SEC in blocks and defensive rebound %. For a freshman, he has looked great. By comparison to other Kentucky alums here's how Jackson block rate comps: Anthony Davis (13.8%), Nerlens Noel (13.2%), and Willie Cauley-Stein (12.3%). Jackson does foul a lot, so that does take away from his numbers.

He doesn't shoot the three, but he shoots 70% from the freethrow line so this guy could end up a first rounder.

Well when you have a Tatum, Ingram or Zion, sure but Jalen Johnson is more of a Barrett or Bagley level prospect, with his numbers and lack of consistent dominance.

Is Isaiah Jackson like a Jaxon Hayes or Nicolas Claxton prospect?

[TeamDisgruntled]

So many good sf/pf types in this year draft. Seems like a good year to have multiple swings at landing a stud. Jalen Johnson could be a huge steal if he fades due to injuries and sitting out the remainder of the year.

[HeadtopChunes]

Jalen Johnson def gonna get hit by the blue blood character assassination, if he falls to our pick would be awesome despite him not being a great fit in the short term.

[HeadtopChunes]

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

Cade is a like a top 5 prospect post-Lebron, Mobley is prob the best big man prospect since AD, the others aren't as good as the hype i agree IMO but there should still be a couple of all-stars in the top 10, which is pretty solid.

Cade is a super polished 19-year-old 6'8 guard, he does turn the ball over a lot but that's really only a small weakness in the case of an over-extended kid carrying a college team (carrying it well I might add), his closest comp is probably Luka, I think Luka ends up a solidly better scorer but Cade is a better defender, shooter, and passer at the same stage. 100% would have been worth tanking for (although idk if truly tanking was ever really an option for us)

[Dalek]

It seems like Cade has freedom to run P&R and do whatever he wants and that has him forcing things. I was shocked how many dumb passes he makes. I think giving him more structure. Right now he seems like an athletic Boris Diaw with better handles and better shooting.

Let's hope that Barnes, Bouknight, Keon Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Kispert, Cooper and Moody all get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson.

Who else could get taken ahead of Jalen Johnson? Sengun, Garuba, Springer, Wagner?

FYI, Tankathon finally has Petrusev into the 1st round at #27. http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Does he remind of JV?

Petrusev has been so steady with Mega and it has been an incredible turnaround for a guy who shot 18% from three in his last year. This year he is up to 45%. He is a lot like Bargs, and kind of makes me think of Ryan Anderson.

Jalen Johnson falling would be a surprise. He is from Duke and already you get a bias from the NBA which will tend to look at guys from big programs.

Speaking of big programs, for bigs, I have been seeing some really strong play from Isaiah Jackson from Kentucky. Here is a 6'10" ; 7'3" winsgpan with great athleticism. He ended up the fastest sprinter on the team and his running really reminds me of Pascal. He doesn't have huge hands, but he is high-high energy and is just a multi-effort, multi-bounce athlete.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AIRHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=TheScoutingRapport

Isaiah Jackson has a 12.9% block rate and a 2.1% steal rate, and leads the SEC in blocks and defensive rebound %. For a freshman, he has looked great. By comparison to other Kentucky alums here's how Jackson block rate comps: Anthony Davis (13.8%), Nerlens Noel (13.2%), and Willie Cauley-Stein (12.3%). Jackson does foul a lot, so that does take away from his numbers.

He doesn't shoot the three, but he shoots 70% from the freethrow line so this guy could end up a first rounder.

Well when you have a Tatum, Ingram or Zion, sure but Jalen Johnson is more of a Barrett or Bagley level prospect, with his numbers and lack of consistent dominance.

Is Isaiah Jackson like a Jaxon Hayes or Nicolas Claxton prospect?

I see more of a Jaxon Hayes comp mainly because Jackson is like 209 lbs. He is a lighter more of an energy big rather than a banger. He can really run the floor in transition, which Toronto loves. I just don't think he will get drafted that high unless he ups his performances.

If Johnson falls to Toronto with a late pick we are in a great place. Somebody good will drop to us, hopefully a building block type of player.

[Psubs]

Jalen Johnson def gonna get hit by the blue blood character assassination, if he falls to our pick would be awesome despite him not being a great fit in the short term.

In like 3 years, Pascal will be 30 and JJ will be 22 ready to start pushing him like FVV did with Lowry.

I'm guessing that JJ isn't 100% and didn't want to risk re-injuring himself. Showed everyone that he was healthy and he hit a few 3's to bump up his %. Wiseman only played 3 games. He showed enough to secure himself a 1st round selection, anything else could likely drop his stock.

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

Cade is a like a top 5 prospect post-Lebron, Mobley is prob the best big man prospect since AD, the others aren't as good as the hype i agree IMO but there should still be a couple of all-stars in the top 10, which is pretty solid.

Cade is a super polished 19-year-old 6'8 guard, he does turn the ball over a lot but that's really only a small weakness in the case of an over-extended kid carrying a college team (carrying it well I might add), his closest comp is probably Luka, I think Luka ends up a solidly better scorer but Cade is a better defender, shooter, and passer at the same stage. 100% would have been worth tanking for (although idk if truly tanking was ever really an option for us)

I would say that Cade is a bigger Jalen Rose that shoots a little better. Like neither are high flyers but can control the game.

Read on Twitter

I feel like Josh Christopher would be like Danny Granger saying he wouldn't want to play for Toronto. He'll probably eventually end up in L.A. like PG and Kawhi.

[HeadtopChunes]

Jalen Johnson def gonna get hit by the blue blood character assassination, if he falls to our pick would be awesome despite him not being a great fit in the short term.

In like 3 years, Pascal will be 30 and JJ will be 22 ready to start pushing him like FVV did with Lowry.

I'm guessing that JJ isn't 100% and didn't want to risk re-injuring himself. Showed everyone that he was healthy and he hit a few 3's to bump up his %. Wiseman only played 3 games. He showed enough to secure himself a 1st round selection, anything else could likely drop his stock.

Yeah JJ being too similar to Pascal role-wise is my reservation for him here, but I'd guess learning under Pascal and OG could be good for him and he gives us a forward off the bench we need and if he hits, could also make Pascal or OG expendable in a trade.

I think JJ left because he didn't wanna risk the injury, Duke was going nowhere, and Coach K benched him one game.

[Psubs]

Jalen Johnson def gonna get hit by the blue blood character assassination, if he falls to our pick would be awesome despite him not being a great fit in the short term.

In like 3 years, Pascal will be 30 and JJ will be 22 ready to start pushing him like FVV did with Lowry.

I'm guessing that JJ isn't 100% and didn't want to risk re-injuring himself. Showed everyone that he was healthy and he hit a few 3's to bump up his %. Wiseman only played 3 games. He showed enough to secure himself a 1st round selection, anything else could likely drop his stock.

Yeah JJ being too similar to Pascal role-wise is my reservation for him here, but I'd guess learning under Pascal and OG could be good for him and he gives us a forward off the bench we need and if he hits, could also make Pascal or OG expendable in a trade.

I think JJ left because he didn't wanna risk the injury, Duke was going nowhere, and Coach K benched him one game.

I could see him as a SF more than Pascal (which keeps being floated around), due to his 3pt shooting. Eventually being a poor man's mix of Tatum and Jaylen Brown.

[HeadtopChunes]

In like 3 years, Pascal will be 30 and JJ will be 22 ready to start pushing him like FVV did with Lowry.

I'm guessing that JJ isn't 100% and didn't want to risk re-injuring himself. Showed everyone that he was healthy and he hit a few 3's to bump up his %. Wiseman only played 3 games. He showed enough to secure himself a 1st round selection, anything else could likely drop his stock.

Yeah JJ being too similar to Pascal role-wise is my reservation for him here, but I'd guess learning under Pascal and OG could be good for him and he gives us a forward off the bench we need and if he hits, could also make Pascal or OG expendable in a trade.

I think JJ left because he didn't wanna risk the injury, Duke was going nowhere, and Coach K benched him one game.

I could see him as a SF more than Pascal (which keeps being floated around), due to his 3pt shooting. Eventually being a poor man's mix of Tatum and Jaylen Brown.

eh I don't think Jalen is a very good shooter, not sure if he ends up better than Pascal there. My comp for him is Ben Simmons (albeit smaller and less athletic) he's not as mobile defensively, but he can probably play 5 better due to his rim protection and rebounding.

His best role is versatile defensive PF, transition ball-handler, and more of a big in the half-court (his first step really holds him back here) Him learning to shoot well would be huge though in which case gives him star upside, Nuggets should be trying hard to get him lol

[Psubs]

eh I don't think Jalen is a very good shooter, not sure if he ends up better than Pascal there. My comp for him is Ben Simmons (albeit smaller and less athletic) he's not as mobile defensively, but he can probably play 5 better due to his rim protection and rebounding.

His best role is versatile defensive PF, transition ball-handler, and more of a big in the half-court. Him learning to shoot well would be huge though in which case gives him star upside, Nuggets should be trying hard to get him lol

That's why Johnson stopped after 2 games of going 2 for 2 from deep to bump up his %.

Denver has MPJr. Bol Bol, and Nnaji as prospects. They need to draft a wing to succeed Harris and Barton. They have RJ Hampton but need more.

[HeadtopChunes]

eh I don't think Jalen is a very good shooter, not sure if he ends up better than Pascal there. My comp for him is Ben Simmons (albeit smaller and less athletic) he's not as mobile defensively, but he can probably play 5 better due to his rim protection and rebounding.

His best role is versatile defensive PF, transition ball-handler, and more of a big in the half-court. Him learning to shoot well would be huge though in which case gives him star upside, Nuggets should be trying hard to get him lol

That's why Johnson stopped after 2 games of going 2 for 2 from deep to bump up his %.

Denver has MPJr. Bol Bol, and Nnaji as prospects. They need to draft a wing to succeed Harris and Barton. They have RJ Hampton but need more.

i think Jalen/MPJ could play together well, Jalen plays 3 on defense and 4 on offense, vice versa for MPJ, having that kind of backline rim protection from Jalen would be really helpful when they hedge with Jokic

[VanWest82]

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

Cade is a like a top 5 prospect post-Lebron, Mobley is prob the best big man prospect since AD, the others aren't as good as the hype i agree IMO but there should still be a couple of all-stars in the top 10, which is pretty solid.

Cade is a super polished 19-year-old 6'8 guard, he does turn the ball over a lot but that's really only a small weakness in the case of an over-extended kid carrying a college team (carrying it well I might add), his closest comp is probably Luka, I think Luka ends up a solidly better scorer but Cade is a better defender, shooter, and passer at the same stage. 100% would have been worth tanking for (although idk if truly tanking was ever really an option for us)

Luka won MVP of the Euroleague at that age as the primary creator/facilitator. Cade is averaging like 3 assists per 36 in NCAA and can't even maintain a 1:1 AST:TOV ratio. They're not even in the same discussion as passers.

[Psubs]

eh I don't think Jalen is a very good shooter, not sure if he ends up better than Pascal there. My comp for him is Ben Simmons (albeit smaller and less athletic) he's not as mobile defensively, but he can probably play 5 better due to his rim protection and rebounding.

His best role is versatile defensive PF, transition ball-handler, and more of a big in the half-court. Him learning to shoot well would be huge though in which case gives him star upside, Nuggets should be trying hard to get him lol

That's why Johnson stopped after 2 games of going 2 for 2 from deep to bump up his %.

Denver has MPJr. Bol Bol, and Nnaji as prospects. They need to draft a wing to succeed Harris and Barton. They have RJ Hampton but need more.

i think Jalen/MPJ could play together well, Jalen plays 3 on defense and 4 on offense, vice versa for MPJ, having that kind of backline rim protection from Jalen would be really helpful when they hedge with Jokic

I guess he replaces Jerami Grant with that respect. Geez, why didn't they pay him!?!?!?! Poor evaluation of an asset.

[Psubs]

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

Cade is a like a top 5 prospect post-Lebron, Mobley is prob the best big man prospect since AD, the others aren't as good as the hype i agree IMO but there should still be a couple of all-stars in the top 10, which is pretty solid.

Cade is a super polished 19-year-old 6'8 guard, he does turn the ball over a lot but that's really only a small weakness in the case of an over-extended kid carrying a college team (carrying it well I might add), his closest comp is probably Luka, I think Luka ends up a solidly better scorer but Cade is a better defender, shooter, and passer at the same stage. 100% would have been worth tanking for (although idk if truly tanking was ever really an option for us)

Luka won MVP of the Euroleague at that age as the primary creator/facilitator. Cade is averaging like 3 assists per 36 in NCAA and can't even maintain a 1:1 AST:TOV ratio. They're not even in the same discussion as passers.

That's why I like my comp of Jalen Rose. Cade is like playing on Michigan without Webber and Howard.

Oh Googled, and Lakers GM Rob Pelinka was on the Wolverines and made the final game during 3 of his seasons, including 1989 with Glen Rice.

[HeadtopChunes]

All anyone’s talked about is how great this draft is at the top but I just don’t see it. Cade is a maybe combo PG who turns the ball over way too much. Suggs is like the third best player on his team. Evan Mobley is interesting but he’s a string bean who so far can’t really shoot. Green and Kuminga are getting their butts kicked in the g league. Their team competes when they’re not on the floor. What am I missing? It’s a good thing we didn’t tank for this.

Cade is a like a top 5 prospect post-Lebron, Mobley is prob the best big man prospect since AD, the others aren't as good as the hype i agree IMO but there should still be a couple of all-stars in the top 10, which is pretty solid.

Cade is a super polished 19-year-old 6'8 guard, he does turn the ball over a lot but that's really only a small weakness in the case of an over-extended kid carrying a college team (carrying it well I might add), his closest comp is probably Luka, I think Luka ends up a solidly better scorer but Cade is a better defender, shooter, and passer at the same stage. 100% would have been worth tanking for (although idk if truly tanking was ever really an option for us)

Luka won MVP of the Euroleague at that age as the primary creator/facilitator. Cade is averaging like 3 assists per 36 in NCAA and can't even maintain a 1:1 AST:TOV ratio. They're not even in the same discussion as passers.

The level of competition is a legit point, but in terms of assist volume, Luka's teammates were better than the competition at any given point which is an advantage in assist totals, not a disadvantage.

Cunningham already has an elite passing track record
- 3rd in FIBA U19 tournament in assists despite playing off-ball the whole time
- 6.4/game at Montverde 22 MPG
- if you watch the Oklahoma State games he is still an elite passer, but his teammates are not elite finishers


This isn't really a hot take at all , he's an elite passing prospect

Watch on YouTube

Now overall he's prob not better than Luka just because his scoring game is a lot less advanced and i doubt he's able to put up the same finishing numbers. But he's an elite prospect all the same

[Indeed]

Petrusev has been so steady with Mega and it has been an incredible turnaround for a guy who shot 18% from three in his last year. This year he is up to 45%. He is a lot like Bargs, and kind of makes me think of Ryan Anderson.

Jalen Johnson falling would be a surprise. He is from Duke and already you get a bias from the NBA which will tend to look at guys from big programs.

Speaking of big programs, for bigs, I have been seeing some really strong play from Isaiah Jackson from Kentucky. Here is a 6'10" ; 7'3" winsgpan with great athleticism. He ended up the fastest sprinter on the team and his running really reminds me of Pascal. He doesn't have huge hands, but he is high-high energy and is just a multi-effort, multi-bounce athlete.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AIRHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=TheScoutingRapport

Isaiah Jackson has a 12.9% block rate and a 2.1% steal rate, and leads the SEC in blocks and defensive rebound %. For a freshman, he has looked great. By comparison to other Kentucky alums here's how Jackson block rate comps: Anthony Davis (13.8%), Nerlens Noel (13.2%), and Willie Cauley-Stein (12.3%). Jackson does foul a lot, so that does take away from his numbers.

He doesn't shoot the three, but he shoots 70% from the freethrow line so this guy could end up a first rounder.

Well when you have a Tatum, Ingram or Zion, sure but Jalen Johnson is more of a Barrett or Bagley level prospect, with his numbers and lack of consistent dominance.

Is Isaiah Jackson like a Jaxon Hayes or Nicolas Claxton prospect?

I see more of a Jaxon Hayes comp mainly because Jackson is like 209 lbs. He is a lighter more of an energy big rather than a banger. He can really run the floor in transition, which Toronto loves. I just don't think he will get drafted that high unless he ups his performances.

If Johnson falls to Toronto with a late pick we are in a great place. Somebody good will drop to us, hopefully a building block type of player.

Hayes being similar in size and strength, but play style is more like Faried. He is like a taller Faried with shooting, doing hustle more. Hayes has a higher basketball IQ, and probably a better offensive player (reading offensive play better), while Johnson may fit us more being a hard working and defensive focus.

[Inevitable]

My goodness Suggs is just in a different class, clearly best player on the court. He has a TON of Brandon Roy in his game.

[Syd-TK3]

My goodness Suggs is just in a different class, clearly best player on the court. He has a TON of Brandon Roy in his game.

Gonzaga being so good was working against his stock cause he never had to do too much but yesterday showed that when his team is actually tested he steps up