WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[zimpy27]

jeezus **** can this narrative die already?

Steph was never the window we were worried about. Never. Never ever.

The second Draymond isn't the same Draymond we knew, we're in deep trouble. There is no replacement behind him, there's very few in the league who could. And without him our defense is brutal and our offense can be stagnant. He is the ticking clock, not Steph.

What is the Warriors plan do you think? Make a run with Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Wiseman?

Sounds ridiculous right? I can't imagine it is their plan.

But like I said somewhere else.. Kerr just announced that Wiseman was gonna get more playing time, right as he's been mired in his worst chunk of his rookie season. A couple days later, our team, through sources to local media, talks about what it would take to get Wiseman in a trade, unprompted.

So my guess is that yes, they are actively looking to make a deal and that Wiseman is likely a key element in that. Obvious talent there, but where will we be when he realizes it? Will he even fit with the stars?

Closest player to Dray is Bam. It's a very hard skill set to find. It does surprise me though because the same thing that I always thought made Dray great defensively is what makes him great as a QB, which is the high IQ and ability to understand, track and predict player movement and space. There should be other.guys in the league that can do that but maybe not many at the 6'7 size.

A few shorter players have that ability. What do you think of Lonzo as a Dray replacement? It's not perfect because he's not an anchor but it could be something.

[FNQ]

What is the Warriors plan do you think? Make a run with Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Wiseman?

Sounds ridiculous right? I can't imagine it is their plan.

But like I said somewhere else.. Kerr just announced that Wiseman was gonna get more playing time, right as he's been mired in his worst chunk of his rookie season. A couple days later, our team, through sources to local media, talks about what it would take to get Wiseman in a trade, unprompted.

So my guess is that yes, they are actively looking to make a deal and that Wiseman is likely a key element in that. Obvious talent there, but where will we be when he realizes it? Will he even fit with the stars?

Closest player to Dray is Bam. It's a very hard skill set to find. It does surprise me though because the same thing that I always thought made Dray great defensively is what makes him great as a QB, which is the high IQ and ability to understand, track and predict player movement and space. There should be other.guys in the league that can do that but maybe not many at the 6'7 size.

A few shorter players have that ability. What do you think of Lonzo as a Dray replacement? It's not perfect because he's not an anchor but it could be something.

Would be tough for it not to be a big, because we're so perimeter based. And our defense is so dependent on having a swiss army knife like him.. I dunno that Bam even fits in. Itd have to be someone like AK47.. thats always been one of my best comps for Dray. But ultimately, if he goes away, just retires tomorrow... I think we're sunk. That's how important he is. We could lose Klay and be better off than if we lost Dray.

[Old_Blue]

Ben Simmons is the most logical replacement for Draymond. Might have been possible this last off-season. But, he's not going anywhere now.

[zimpy27]

jeezus **** can this narrative die already?

Steph was never the window we were worried about. Never. Never ever.

The second Draymond isn't the same Draymond we knew, we're in deep trouble. There is no replacement behind him, there's very few in the league who could. And without him our defense is brutal and our offense can be stagnant. He is the ticking clock, not Steph.

What is the Warriors plan do you think? Make a run with Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Wiseman?

I hope not. Wiseman isn't going to be able to close in the playoffs this year or the next. Our best bet for being serious contenders is to use Wiseman and the Minnesota pick to get a major difference maker. But if you want to hedge your bets and still be able to try and build for life after Steph, just trade Wiseman and keep the Minnesota pick. Christian Wood is the ideal get, but I fear the FO is attached to Wiseman. Maybe not the FO, but Joe Lacob for sure. Shortly after we drafted Wiseman, he said that he believed Wiseman is the best big man prospect of the last decade, which is just... delusional.

Interesting. Do you think the LaMelo at 2 rumour from Jalen Rose has legs? Is it possible that the FO wanted LaMelo but Lacob (Rana)dived in?

[Onus]

that's true, Dray's window is even smaller than Steph's and it's the one that people should be worried about more at this point.

Isn’t wiseman a dray replacement. If wiseman turns into gobert defensively we’d be fine. Our offense would have to change but it’s not like draymond doesn’t have his limitations on that end anyway.

We cant just be like "If Wiseman turns into a DPOY candidate".. I mean yeah, that'd be great, but is that really what we're banking on?

Keep in mind - Dray's not just a defensive anchor - he's the QB. I've watched enough of the Jazz to know that while Gobert has amazing instincts, he's not literally placing people in the right spots like Dray is, in game. I dont know that there is another Draymond out there.

Thats why there should be urgency. There is no title team without Draymond.

I think you draft Wiseman with the hopes that he does turn into a DPOY candidate. And I hope that's what the FO was banking on with selecting Wiseman. If your starting center doesn't play great defense it's going to be really tough to win.

Yea Dray is more than a defensive anchor, but he isn't the defensive anchor that Gobert is. You can't put any 4 guys around Draymond and expect Draymond to anchor that defense. His defensive ability scales better with better defenders around him. I do think Draymond is a better defender as well but you play draymond with g-league type players and you get last season. Gobert with just about anybody is going to lock down the paint. He may not be able to direct everyone and tell them where to be but he's going to be a presence down there regardless of who is around him. That's all we can really hope wiseman can do.

[zimpy27]

there is no plan here, at least not an obvious one, other than we 'we think Wiseman is the best player on the board and we will draft him regardless of our personnel and scheme'

i'm all for BPA when it's called for and the guy on the board is so much better than everyone else where you have to ignore need/fit/personnel and pull the trigger, but this was a bad decision from the get go...again this doesn't mean Wiseman isn't going to be a good player down the road...but he doesn't fit any good reasoning why we need to take him #2, not from a fit standpoint, not from a BPA standpoint, nothing.

This "plan" started with losing Durant in FA.
- I think a few panic decisions were made where they valued Dlo at a max contract over Iggy at his contract plus a couple of FRPs, which was clearly wrong. The "plan" then was that GSW needed more playmaking.
- GSW find that DLo is a terrible fit (not shocking to many) and is killing their defense, they move him for much-maligned Wiggins and an FRP. This was a good move but clearly not in line with the "more playmakers plan" and suddenly the "plan" was to become younger and more athletic.
- Now with the "plan" to become younger and more athletic the team picks Wiseman and sign Oubre (when Klay goes down).

So have these "plans" been to help cover for Draymond Green all along or just made based on quick value judgments triggered by losing Durant? It all looks very reactionary and not like a constant proactive plan. It might be time to come up with a proper plan.

[Coxy]

there is no plan here, at least not an obvious one, other than we 'we think Wiseman is the best player on the board and we will draft him regardless of our personnel and scheme'

i'm all for BPA when it's called for and the guy on the board is so much better than everyone else where you have to ignore need/fit/personnel and pull the trigger, but this was a bad decision from the get go...again this doesn't mean Wiseman isn't going to be a good player down the road...but he doesn't fit any good reasoning why we need to take him #2, not from a fit standpoint, not from a BPA standpoint, nothing.

This "plan" started with losing Durant in FA.
- I think a few panic decisions were made where they valued Dlo at a max contract over Iggy at his contract plus a couple of FRPs, which was clearly wrong. The "plan" then was that GSW needed more playmaking.
- GSW find that DLo is a terrible fit (not shocking to many) and is killing their defense, they move him for much-maligned Wiggins and an FRP. This was a good move but clearly not in line with the "more playmakers plan" and suddenly the "plan" was to become younger and more athletic.
- Now with the "plan" to become younger and more athletic the team picks Wiseman and sign Oubre (when Klay goes down).

So have these "plans" been to help cover for Draymond Green all along or just made based on quick value judgments triggered by losing Durant? It all looks very reactionary and not like a constant proactive plan. It might be time to come up with a proper plan.

Good post, and I'm in the court of it all being quite reactionary in planning. It is what it is, and Bob has been walking the tight rope for a little while now.

[Coxy]

Zimpy your avy cracks me up. What even is that?

[WarriorGM]

If the team looks like they didn't have a plan it is because of mistakes they made before KD left. The inability of the team to get Damian Jones and Jordan Bell to the next level is the main culprit. Jones got injured in his designated make or break season so that's just unfortunate but Kerr deserves blame for not playing Bell more unless Bell was really an incorrigible headcase which I'm not convinced of. In hindsight the DeMarcus Cousins signing was a big mistake too.

[zimpy27]

Sounds ridiculous right? I can't imagine it is their plan.

But like I said somewhere else.. Kerr just announced that Wiseman was gonna get more playing time, right as he's been mired in his worst chunk of his rookie season. A couple days later, our team, through sources to local media, talks about what it would take to get Wiseman in a trade, unprompted.

So my guess is that yes, they are actively looking to make a deal and that Wiseman is likely a key element in that. Obvious talent there, but where will we be when he realizes it? Will he even fit with the stars?

Closest player to Dray is Bam. It's a very hard skill set to find. It does surprise me though because the same thing that I always thought made Dray great defensively is what makes him great as a QB, which is the high IQ and ability to understand, track and predict player movement and space. There should be other.guys in the league that can do that but maybe not many at the 6'7 size.

A few shorter players have that ability. What do you think of Lonzo as a Dray replacement? It's not perfect because he's not an anchor but it could be something.

Would be tough for it not to be a big, because we're so perimeter based. And our defense is so dependent on having a swiss army knife like him.. I dunno that Bam even fits in. Itd have to be someone like AK47.. thats always been one of my best comps for Dray. But ultimately, if he goes away, just retires tomorrow... I think we're sunk. That's how important he is. We could lose Klay and be better off than if we lost Dray.

How about Wiggins, Wiseman, Poole for Lonzo, Adams, Hart? Is that a good basis for a trade?

Curry, Lonzo, Klay, Green, Adams
Lee, Hart, Paschall, Looney

[and1GS]

I mean, I'd say neigh way jose that's low value for James.

But half this sub hates the kid so add in a tube of pringles and you probably have a deal.

[wco81]

If the team looks like they didn't have a plan it is because of mistakes they made before KD left. The inability of the team to get Damian Jones and Jordan Bell to the next level is the main culprit. Jones got injured in his designated make or break season so that's just unfortunate but Kerr deserves blame for not playing Bell more unless Bell was really an incorrigible headcase which I'm not convinced of. In hindsight the DeMarcus Cousins signing was a big mistake too.

They didn't have a long-term plan when they signed KD. It was sign him and worry about the rest later.

The team lost all their depth and still won 2 titles but very thin roster which depended on the 4 stars not being injured.

Well that all caught up with a vengeance the last 2 years.

They probably never thought KD would walk away. But if Brooklyn wins it this year, they were in a better position, had accumulated a lot of depth and players they could trade for Harden.

In retrospect, they should have traded KD in 2019.

[wco81]

Closest player to Dray is Bam. It's a very hard skill set to find. It does surprise me though because the same thing that I always thought made Dray great defensively is what makes him great as a QB, which is the high IQ and ability to understand, track and predict player movement and space. There should be other.guys in the league that can do that but maybe not many at the 6'7 size.

A few shorter players have that ability. What do you think of Lonzo as a Dray replacement? It's not perfect because he's not an anchor but it could be something.

Would be tough for it not to be a big, because we're so perimeter based. And our defense is so dependent on having a swiss army knife like him.. I dunno that Bam even fits in. Itd have to be someone like AK47.. thats always been one of my best comps for Dray. But ultimately, if he goes away, just retires tomorrow... I think we're sunk. That's how important he is. We could lose Klay and be better off than if we lost Dray.

How about Wiggins, Wiseman, Poole for Lonzo, Adams, Hart? Is that a good basis for a trade?

Curry, Lonzo, Klay, Green, Adams
Lee, Hart, Paschall, Looney

Why would the Pelicans do that? And with Ingram, they probably have little use for Wiggins.

They could possibly make a run for a play-in spot still but the trade wouldn't necessarily help them.

They do need to get Adams out of the paint to give Zion the room there.

Maybe they don't want to give Lonzo a big extension.

I could see the Pelicans making this kind of move next season if they're not in the playoffs. By then Griffin will be under more pressure to produce.

For the Warriors Lonzo would be good but he's probably looking to get paid a lot. Adams would not be good other than his rebounding but his huge contract? Hart is probably better than any of the second unit guards the Warriors have.

[zimpy27]

Would be tough for it not to be a big, because we're so perimeter based. And our defense is so dependent on having a swiss army knife like him.. I dunno that Bam even fits in. Itd have to be someone like AK47.. thats always been one of my best comps for Dray. But ultimately, if he goes away, just retires tomorrow... I think we're sunk. That's how important he is. We could lose Klay and be better off than if we lost Dray.

How about Wiggins, Wiseman, Poole for Lonzo, Adams, Hart? Is that a good basis for a trade?

Curry, Lonzo, Klay, Green, Adams
Lee, Hart, Paschall, Looney

Why would the Pelicans do that? And with Ingram, they probably have little use for Wiggins.

They could possibly make a run for a play-in spot still but the trade wouldn't necessarily help them.

They do need to get Adams out of the paint to give Zion the room there.

Maybe they don't want to give Lonzo a big extension.

I could see the Pelicans making this kind of move next season if they're not in the playoffs. By then Griffin will be under more pressure to produce.

For the Warriors Lonzo would be good but he's probably looking to get paid a lot. Adams would not be good other than his rebounding but his huge contract? Hart is probably better than any of the second unit guards the Warriors have.

Ingram and Zion both should be doing more playmaking so Lonzo isn't really necessary, especially with Kira and NAW there.

Wiseman is a good fit with Zion, especially if he can develop his range more.

Wiggins is a nice fit with Ingram and Zion as a 3rd scoring option and defensive player, their starting wings would be set.

[Mylie10]

What is the Warriors plan do you think? Make a run with Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Wiseman?

I hope not. Wiseman isn't going to be able to close in the playoffs this year or the next. Our best bet for being serious contenders is to use Wiseman and the Minnesota pick to get a major difference maker. But if you want to hedge your bets and still be able to try and build for life after Steph, just trade Wiseman and keep the Minnesota pick. Christian Wood is the ideal get, but I fear the FO is attached to Wiseman. Maybe not the FO, but Joe Lacob for sure. Shortly after we drafted Wiseman, he said that he believed Wiseman is the best big man prospect of the last decade, which is just... delusional.

Interesting. Do you think the LaMelo at 2 rumour from Jalen Rose has legs? Is it possible that the FO wanted LaMelo but Lacob (Rana)dived in?

They probably wanted to see if Minnesota was gonna take Wiseman. If they did then I have no doubt the Warriors may have picked Ball

[whatisacenter]

disappointed to see that Wiseman missed his covid test, Wednesday's practice and might miss the game tonight. I am looking forward to seeing him the second half of the season and if the game starts to slow down for him with more consistent playing time.

[FNQ]

Closest player to Dray is Bam. It's a very hard skill set to find. It does surprise me though because the same thing that I always thought made Dray great defensively is what makes him great as a QB, which is the high IQ and ability to understand, track and predict player movement and space. There should be other.guys in the league that can do that but maybe not many at the 6'7 size.

A few shorter players have that ability. What do you think of Lonzo as a Dray replacement? It's not perfect because he's not an anchor but it could be something.

Would be tough for it not to be a big, because we're so perimeter based. And our defense is so dependent on having a swiss army knife like him.. I dunno that Bam even fits in. Itd have to be someone like AK47.. thats always been one of my best comps for Dray. But ultimately, if he goes away, just retires tomorrow... I think we're sunk. That's how important he is. We could lose Klay and be better off than if we lost Dray.

How about Wiggins, Wiseman, Poole for Lonzo, Adams, Hart? Is that a good basis for a trade?

Curry, Lonzo, Klay, Green, Adams
Lee, Hart, Paschall, Looney

I probably wouldn't, simply because I just dont believe much in Lonzo as a starter. I do like Adams and Hart though.. but i dont know the Pels situation well enough to make an offer. But if we could center something around Wiggins-Adams, I'm at the very least intrigued

[and1GS]

Adams would be a great fit. Does a lot of the Bogut stuff we need as we look to have more offense initiators.

[Warriors Analyst]

If the team looks like they didn't have a plan it is because of mistakes they made before KD left. The inability of the team to get Damian Jones and Jordan Bell to the next level is the main culprit. Jones got injured in his designated make or break season so that's just unfortunate but Kerr deserves blame for not playing Bell more unless Bell was really an incorrigible headcase which I'm not convinced of. In hindsight the DeMarcus Cousins signing was a big mistake too.

What? Jordan Bell didn't even last the duration of a 10-day contract with the Wizards, who suck ass and are in desperate need of bodies at the 5. Jones sucks too and was always fated to suck because he has little feel for the game at his size.

The issue wasn't that the Warriors didn't get them to the next level. The issue was having Jones and Evans on the roster in the 2019 playoff run, taking McKinnie over Danuel House Jr. or Kendrick Nunn (although I am pretty sure my skin would crawl watching him play with his domestic violence issues), and not developing a single playable wing in 2015-19.

[HiRez]

Adams would be a great fit. Does a lot of the Bogut stuff we need as we look to have more offense initiators.

Yeah, I've thought the same thing...maybe the most Bogut-like player in the league (even apart from the Aus-NZ connection). Does a lot of the dirty work in the trenches, Bogut/Zaza-style. We don't have anyone who does that outside of Draymond right now, Chriss doesn't really and it doesn't look like Wiseman is going to be that kind of player either. Looney does to some extent but he's not a 7-ish-foot bruiser who moves bodies around under the rim. Unfortunately Adams also shares Bogut's horrendous freethrow shooting.