Cavs 2020-21 season

[JonFromVA]

Oh I am pretty sure its something more than a ten day contract if they trade DG... but yeah I know its nothing hes probably just brought in for a couple practices before the season resumes tomorrow and might have a house in CLE still or something.

I'd be shocked if they trade DG at the deadline, and if he's traded for anything other than Ball +, I'd be done frankly.

I know it seems unlikely anyone is traded but I started laughing when I read and then heard later today on the radio the same echo of local leaks trying to insinuate anyone on a 14 win team in untouchable they listed guess who...Sexton DG Nance Okoro and JFro aka the 5 guys that pretty much nobody thinks they would trade and the only ones with any real trade value like a potential lottery pick.
I would not be at all surprised if any of them were moved at this juncture

Nobody on any team should be untouchable, but the Cavs have made it pretty clear they're not shopping those 5.

But the problem is finding a good trade.

Like I'm sure as we've heard there are teams who'd love to add Larry Nance, but so what? What are they offering? We don't need the 25th pick in the draft. Ears would perk if Denver was offering MPJ for Nance, but from what I hear, they're saving him for a much bigger deal.

We need to raise the value of our players a lot higher, so if we do trade them we get an impact player (or pick) back; otherwise we're just re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

[Stillwater]

I'd be shocked if they trade DG at the deadline, and if he's traded for anything other than Ball +, I'd be done frankly.

I know it seems unlikely anyone is traded but I started laughing when I read and then heard later today on the radio the same echo of local leaks trying to insinuate anyone on a 14 win team in untouchable they listed guess who...Sexton DG Nance Okoro and JFro aka the 5 guys that pretty much nobody thinks they would trade and the only ones with any real trade value like a potential lottery pick.
I would not be at all surprised if any of them were moved at this juncture

I mean Allen should be untouchable for anyone outside of a young star. It's a difficult position to find a two-way player at, he's a great defender, and probably the only reason the Cavs don't get run out of the gym by every opponent.

Well I mean as good as he has been , The Cavs were not getting run out of the gym with pre Allen trade Dre in the starting line up either... and now they are sitting him.
I just dont think any of these players are nearly as untouchable even if hard to replace as most fans want to believe.
I could see them saying no to any Nance offers given how much the defense struggled after he went down but that was also right in tune with the immediate games following a trade with 2 new rotation players being inserted and Dre becoming disgruntled and playing like sht at the same time.
I wouldnt think DG will have any more significant trade value than he does right now if he misses more time between now and the dl tbh where injury issues start to red flag him, so the only question is are they getting a player back they like more or are they just fishing for protected lottery picks that become unprotected in 22 or something...
I could easily see Sexton Okoro as the starting back court to finish the season with no pg or sg returning in a DG trade.
& it wouldnt be any different as if DG sits

[jbk1234]

I know it seems unlikely anyone is traded but I started laughing when I read and then heard later today on the radio the same echo of local leaks trying to insinuate anyone on a 14 win team in untouchable they listed guess who...Sexton DG Nance Okoro and JFro aka the 5 guys that pretty much nobody thinks they would trade and the only ones with any real trade value like a potential lottery pick.
I would not be at all surprised if any of them were moved at this juncture

I mean Allen should be untouchable for anyone outside of a young star. It's a difficult position to find a two-way player at, he's a great defender, and probably the only reason the Cavs don't get run out of the gym by every opponent.

Well I mean as good as he has been , The Cavs were not getting run out of the gym with pre Allen trade Dre in the starting line up either... and now they are sitting him.
I just dont think any of these players are nearly as untouchable even if hard to replace as most fans want to believe.
I could see them saying no to any Nance offers given how much the defense struggled after he went down but that was also right in tune with the immediate games following a trade with 2 new rotation players being inserted and Dre becoming disgruntled and playing like sht at the same time.
I wouldnt think DG will have any more significant trade value than he does right now if he misses more time between now and the dl tbh where injury issues start to red flag him, so the only question is are they getting a player back they like more or are they just fishing for protected lottery picks that become unprotected in 22 or something...
I could easily see Sexton Okoro as the starting back court to finish the season with no pg or sg returning in a DG trade.
& it wouldnt be any different as if DG sits

The Cavs aren't trading Garland for a non-lottery pick. That's preposterous. But I hope you get your wish and we get to see a Sexton/Okoro backcourt over the next two weeks. That out to be enough to put to the bed the idea that's an actual option absence a point-forward type out of the SF position. It will likely lead to an improved draft position as well.

[Stillwater]

I mean Allen should be untouchable for anyone outside of a young star. It's a difficult position to find a two-way player at, he's a great defender, and probably the only reason the Cavs don't get run out of the gym by every opponent.

Well I mean as good as he has been , The Cavs were not getting run out of the gym with pre Allen trade Dre in the starting line up either... and now they are sitting him.
I just dont think any of these players are nearly as untouchable even if hard to replace as most fans want to believe.
I could see them saying no to any Nance offers given how much the defense struggled after he went down but that was also right in tune with the immediate games following a trade with 2 new rotation players being inserted and Dre becoming disgruntled and playing like sht at the same time.
I wouldnt think DG will have any more significant trade value than he does right now if he misses more time between now and the dl tbh where injury issues start to red flag him, so the only question is are they getting a player back they like more or are they just fishing for protected lottery picks that become unprotected in 22 or something...
I could easily see Sexton Okoro as the starting back court to finish the season with no pg or sg returning in a DG trade.
& it wouldnt be any different as if DG sits

The Cavs aren't trading Garland for a non-lottery pick. That's preposterous. But I hope you get your wish and we get to see a Sexton/Okoro backcourt over the next two weeks. That out to be enough to put to the bed the idea that's an actual option absence a point-forward type out of the SF position. It will likely lead to an improved draft position as well.

LOL you clearly didnt even read what I said if you think I think they would trade any of the so called core for a non lottery pick...
and yeah its not my wish since Okoro has not been that great offensively but Sexton is clearly not being utilized to his fullest when used off ball

[jbk1234]

Well I mean as good as he has been , The Cavs were not getting run out of the gym with pre Allen trade Dre in the starting line up either... and now they are sitting him.
I just dont think any of these players are nearly as untouchable even if hard to replace as most fans want to believe.
I could see them saying no to any Nance offers given how much the defense struggled after he went down but that was also right in tune with the immediate games following a trade with 2 new rotation players being inserted and Dre becoming disgruntled and playing like sht at the same time.
I wouldnt think DG will have any more significant trade value than he does right now if he misses more time between now and the dl tbh where injury issues start to red flag him, so the only question is are they getting a player back they like more or are they just fishing for protected lottery picks that become unprotected in 22 or something...
I could easily see Sexton Okoro as the starting back court to finish the season with no pg or sg returning in a DG trade.
& it wouldnt be any different as if DG sits

The Cavs aren't trading Garland for a non-lottery pick. That's preposterous. But I hope you get your wish and we get to see a Sexton/Okoro backcourt over the next two weeks. That out to be enough to put to the bed the idea that's an actual option absence a point-forward type out of the SF position. It will likely lead to an improved draft position as well.

LOL you clearly didnt even read what I said if you think I think they would trade any of the so called core for a non lottery pick...
and yeah its not my wish since Okoro has not been that great offensively but Sexton is clearly not being utilized to his fullest when used off ball

First off, it does benefit Sexton to have someone else as the primary ball handler against good defensive teams. But more importantly, the goal is not to benefit any single player to his fullest. It's to put the best team you can on the court. Beal, who is better than Sexton, has put up career numbers as the only real option since Wall went down and that Wizards team hasn't sniffed the playoffs. I'm sure Kyrie, who is also better than Sexton, would prefer to have the offense run through him but the Nets are better when Harden plays the PG role.

[Stillwater]

The Cavs aren't trading Garland for a non-lottery pick. That's preposterous. But I hope you get your wish and we get to see a Sexton/Okoro backcourt over the next two weeks. That out to be enough to put to the bed the idea that's an actual option absence a point-forward type out of the SF position. It will likely lead to an improved draft position as well.

LOL you clearly didnt even read what I said if you think I think they would trade any of the so called core for a non lottery pick...
and yeah its not my wish since Okoro has not been that great offensively but Sexton is clearly not being utilized to his fullest when used off ball

First off, it does benefit Sexton to have someone else as the primary ball handler against good defensive teams. But more importantly, the goal is not to benefit any single player to his fullest. It's to put the best team you can on the court. Beal, who is better than Sexton, has put up career numbers as the only real option since Wall went down and that Wizards team hasn't sniffed the playoffs. I'm sure Kyrie, who is also better than Sexton, would prefer to have the offense run through him but the Nets are better when Harden plays the PG role.

And the fact that you have come to the conclusion Sexton cannot be the guy the offense runs through to the benefit of the team is beyond me given that opportunity to prove himself has been few and far between, but the flashes of it imo are he has a lot more to prove that will be proven not disproven. Unless of course they are content with letting DG drive the tank from the bench instead of the court and maybe Dotson can take over for DG like he usually does with Sexton continuing to do his scoring thing.
Sexton took control and made a lot of plays in the first half of the last game with DG running next to him though so it does benefit him some in that role when teams are expecting him to shoot and not pass. we shall see.

[jbk1234]

LOL you clearly didnt even read what I said if you think I think they would trade any of the so called core for a non lottery pick...
and yeah its not my wish since Okoro has not been that great offensively but Sexton is clearly not being utilized to his fullest when used off ball

First off, it does benefit Sexton to have someone else as the primary ball handler against good defensive teams. But more importantly, the goal is not to benefit any single player to his fullest. It's to put the best team you can on the court. Beal, who is better than Sexton, has put up career numbers as the only real option since Wall went down and that Wizards team hasn't sniffed the playoffs. I'm sure Kyrie, who is also better than Sexton, would prefer to have the offense run through him but the Nets are better when Harden plays the PG role.

And the fact that you have come to the conclusion Sexton cannot be the guy the offense runs through to the benefit of the team is beyond me given that opportunity to prove himself has been few and far between, but the flashes of it imo are he has a lot more to prove that will be proven not disproven. Unless of course they are content with letting DG drive the tank from the bench instead of the court and maybe Dotson can take over for DG like he usually does with Sexton continuing to do his scoring thing.
Sexton took control and made a lot of plays in the first half of the last game with DG running next to him though so it does benefit him some in that role when teams are expecting him to shoot and not pass. we shall see.

Garland has shared the court for less than half of the games Sexton has played in the NBA. The idea that Sexton's opportunities have been few and far between is just crazy. But again, I just assume he get more opportunities against good or aggressive defenses now. This season.

I don't want to be having the same recycled conversation Sexton's 4th season in the NBA..

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[Stillwater]

First off, it does benefit Sexton to have someone else as the primary ball handler against good defensive teams. But more importantly, the goal is not to benefit any single player to his fullest. It's to put the best team you can on the court. Beal, who is better than Sexton, has put up career numbers as the only real option since Wall went down and that Wizards team hasn't sniffed the playoffs. I'm sure Kyrie, who is also better than Sexton, would prefer to have the offense run through him but the Nets are better when Harden plays the PG role.

And the fact that you have come to the conclusion Sexton cannot be the guy the offense runs through to the benefit of the team is beyond me given that opportunity to prove himself has been few and far between, but the flashes of it imo are he has a lot more to prove that will be proven not disproven. Unless of course they are content with letting DG drive the tank from the bench instead of the court and maybe Dotson can take over for DG like he usually does with Sexton continuing to do his scoring thing.
Sexton took control and made a lot of plays in the first half of the last game with DG running next to him though so it does benefit him some in that role when teams are expecting him to shoot and not pass. we shall see.

Garland has shared the court for less than half of the games Sexton has played in the NBA. The idea that Sexton's opportunities have been few and far between is just crazy. But again, I just assume he get more opportunities against good or aggressive defenses now. This season.

I don't want to be having the same recycled conversation Sexton's 4th season in the NBA..

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Other than a handful of minutes here and there by committee he has not been the point guard on this roster 95% of the time in the past 2 seasons...He has however done plenty to create and make the right pass within the flow of the offense to make anyone believe he could do it at least at an acceptable rate to finish the season if DG is moved or out injured. I am convinced he would exceed expectations because he will have been working behind the scenes on this aspect of his game already big time if they have any interest in making a run at the playoffs .
But If he is the same score first pass later guard to finish the season in an off ball role next to a lesser creator than DG like Dotson or other then we are in the same boat as right now. we just need a bigger pg next to Sexton.
Of course they could trade Sexton for a top 5 pick if DG blows up and Sexton regresses but that aint gonna happen

[jbk1234]

And the fact that you have come to the conclusion Sexton cannot be the guy the offense runs through to the benefit of the team is beyond me given that opportunity to prove himself has been few and far between, but the flashes of it imo are he has a lot more to prove that will be proven not disproven. Unless of course they are content with letting DG drive the tank from the bench instead of the court and maybe Dotson can take over for DG like he usually does with Sexton continuing to do his scoring thing.
Sexton took control and made a lot of plays in the first half of the last game with DG running next to him though so it does benefit him some in that role when teams are expecting him to shoot and not pass. we shall see.

Garland has shared the court for less than half of the games Sexton has played in the NBA. The idea that Sexton's opportunities have been few and far between is just crazy. But again, I just assume he get more opportunities against good or aggressive defenses now. This season.

I don't want to be having the same recycled conversation Sexton's 4th season in the NBA..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Other than a handful of minutes here and there by committee he has not been the point guard on this roster 95% of the time in the past 2 seasons...He has however done plenty to create and make the right pass within the flow of the offense to make anyone believe he could do it at least at an acceptable rate to finish the season if DG is moved or out injured. I am convinced he would exceed expectations because he will have been working behind the scenes on this aspect of his game already big time if they have any interest in making a run at the playoffs .
But If he is the same score first pass later guard to finish the season in an off ball role next to a lesser creator than DG like Dotson or other then we are in the same boat as right now. we just need a bigger pg next to Sexton.
Of course they could trade Sexton for a top 5 pick if DG blows up and Sexton regresses but that aint gonna happen

There have been 12 games that Garland hasn't played in over the last two years and we're only half way through this season.

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[Stillwater]

Garland has shared the court for less than half of the games Sexton has played in the NBA. The idea that Sexton's opportunities have been few and far between is just crazy. But again, I just assume he get more opportunities against good or aggressive defenses now. This season.

I don't want to be having the same recycled conversation Sexton's 4th season in the NBA..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Other than a handful of minutes here and there by committee he has not been the point guard on this roster 95% of the time in the past 2 seasons...He has however done plenty to create and make the right pass within the flow of the offense to make anyone believe he could do it at least at an acceptable rate to finish the season if DG is moved or out injured. I am convinced he would exceed expectations because he will have been working behind the scenes on this aspect of his game already big time if they have any interest in making a run at the playoffs .
But If he is the same score first pass later guard to finish the season in an off ball role next to a lesser creator than DG like Dotson or other then we are in the same boat as right now. we just need a bigger pg next to Sexton.
Of course they could trade Sexton for a top 5 pick if DG blows up and Sexton regresses but that aint gonna happen

There have been 12 games that Garland hasn't played in over the last two years and we're only half way through this season.

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and how many of those minutes was Sexton the lead ball handler and floor general ? He wasnt often even without DG available because they needed him in his scoring role which in most situations was the first option and they have never approached it like there had to be one playmaker or floor general anyway except when DG is playing because thats the only way the see him being in the rotation is facilitating for others given his failures to score without the threat of the pass

[jbk1234]

Other than a handful of minutes here and there by committee he has not been the point guard on this roster 95% of the time in the past 2 seasons...He has however done plenty to create and make the right pass within the flow of the offense to make anyone believe he could do it at least at an acceptable rate to finish the season if DG is moved or out injured. I am convinced he would exceed expectations because he will have been working behind the scenes on this aspect of his game already big time if they have any interest in making a run at the playoffs .
But If he is the same score first pass later guard to finish the season in an off ball role next to a lesser creator than DG like Dotson or other then we are in the same boat as right now. we just need a bigger pg next to Sexton.
Of course they could trade Sexton for a top 5 pick if DG blows up and Sexton regresses but that aint gonna happen

There have been 12 games that Garland hasn't played in over the last two years and we're only half way through this season.

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and how many of those minutes was Sexton the lead ball handler and floor general ? He wasnt often even without DG available because they needed him in his scoring role which in most situations was the first option and they have never approached it like there had to be one playmaker or floor general anyway except when DG is playing because thats the only way the see him being in the rotation is facilitating for others given his failures to score without the threat of the pass

So now Garland is at fault even in the games he doesn't play? Is he also at fault in the rotations where he's on the bench and Sexton is on the floor?

Look, if Garland isn't available before the deadline that should be a good way to test your hypothesis because we've got some decent teams coming up out of the break.

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[Stillwater]

There have been 12 games that Garland hasn't played in over the last two years and we're only half way through this season.

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and how many of those minutes was Sexton the lead ball handler and floor general ? He wasnt often even without DG available because they needed him in his scoring role which in most situations was the first option and they have never approached it like there had to be one playmaker or floor general anyway except when DG is playing because thats the only way the see him being in the rotation is facilitating for others given his failures to score without the threat of the pass

So now Garland is at fault even in the games he doesn't play? Is he also at fault in the rotations where he's on the bench and Sexton is on the floor?

Look, if Garland isn't available before the deadline that should be a good way to test your hypothesis because we've got some decent teams coming up out of the break.

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I have no clue why you think I am suggesting its DGs fault Sexton isnt utilized as a Point Guard by reading what I say... I do think DG is in the way of Sexton showing all he can do to run an offense and would be obvious if he was given that role that DG has had and other s have had but at the same time its obvious the reasons why are for starters they have needed Sextons scoring more than his playmaking and they cant rely on DG to score unless he is a playmaker first scorer 2nd etc.
idk if any of this is worth debating at this time and I really dont see Sexton being given the keys with or without DG on the roster in or out of the line up etc...but if they get enough scoring from another player to justify Sexton moving out of his 1st option scoring need then the only logical choice is him moving into that role as a playmaker or at minimum a more balanced role of score and facilitate etc

[JonFromVA]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

[Stillwater]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

Its fairly obvious dg has to be the guy making pg numbers of passes within the flow of the offense to be a nba level player and has to take and make a minimum of 4 triples a half to make up for what he gives up on defense if hes a starter. Sexton is more than capable of doing what dg currently is doing at the 1 its not now some dual responsibility for failure.

[Revenged25]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

I just want to point out that not even CJ McCollum reaches your "viable combo guard with high-usage" standards. For his career he's averaging 3.2 apg with 1.7 topg and a 26.1 USG%.

[Harper4Ferry?]

This team desperately needs a playmaker at Forward out of the upcoming draft. I won't be shocked if Sexland fails, but Gokoro or Sokoro could work as a backcourt if we got the right small forward.

[jbk1234]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

I just want to point out that not even CJ McCollum reaches your "viable combo guard with high-usage" standards. For his career he's averaging 3.2 apg with 1.7 topg and a 26.1 USG%.

And CJ isn't consider all that valuable a trade asset around the league on his current deal. It's one of the reasons the Blazers haven't traded him for a better fitting player next to Dame.

[jbk1234]

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[JonFromVA]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

Its fairly obvious dg has to be the guy making pg numbers of passes within the flow of the offense to be a nba level player and has to take and make a minimum of 4 triples a half to make up for what he gives up on defense if hes a starter. Sexton is more than capable of doing what dg currently is doing at the 1 its not now some dual responsibility for failure.

I'm all for Garland learning to trust his shot and evolving in to a high volume 3pt shooter, but I think his defense can be better than average for a PG as he continues to gain experience/strength.

Collin may be disadvantaged being asked to guard SGs, but even that begs the question whether he's actually better guarding quicker/smaller players than slower/taller players when Okoro is generally defending the hardest opposing wing.

[jbk1234]

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