Trade Discussion 22/23

[ozwizard8]

I don't know if Cuban would lie or not, but I agree with his assessment.

Bubble and playoff KP is a top 20 player. His meniscus injury has a very high probability of a full recovery. And since he is only 25, his chances of reaching that level of play again are good. I agree that his chance of further injury is a concern. But finding someone else who could reach that level of productivity is very difficult.

It's kinda like trading Embiid when he was getting injured in his first seasons. Even for the last offseason, I'd not totally surprised if 76ers selected the go with Simmons instead of Embiid. But they knew they would not get any player good as Embiid if they ever trade him. I don't think Mavs can get a player as good as KP in a trade scenario. At least not now. Maybe after this season.

The question is how much is a 36 year old LaMarcus Aldridge worth?

LMA cant be your starter C if you compete for playoffs. He's too slow and he doesn't offer rim protection. Although he can make 3s, he's more comfortable in mid-range. I'd like him for MLE or vet min. In general, I think Mavs have been good on offense. I'd be interested in players that can play the defensive side as well. Someone to defend Kawhi-A.Davis etc would be nice.
But he might get close to $10m from some team. Gallo got a nice contract so who knows?

[Jethrobodine123]

Well Mark and everyone else in the Mavs FO have to say these things if they have any hope of preserving trade value or maintaining any leverage in possible discussions. You have to give off the impression that you are fine walking away with what you have... like going to a dealership to buy a new car.

Not saying that means anything... I don’t expect Porzingis to be moved this year of anytime soon for that matter, but honestly, if Cuban were to say anything else other than what he said, it would just be a poor negotiating strategy and you’d be left with a Detroit/Blake Griffin scenario where no one is about to give anything of value for a guy the team doesn’t even want

Not a chance he goes anywhere unless we get an offer we can't refuse (aka Beal). Cubes has been about as clear as he ever has been about it and there's no reason to not believe him. He doesn't exactly have a history of making false statements with such conviction.

I mean, I agree with you that odds are he’s almost surely not going anywhere, but I do disagree that it’s because of what Mark is saying. You would have to be a complete and total moron to own the team and say that one of your players (let alone starters... let alone stars) isn’t part of your plans going forward, unless you’re comfortable buying them out... Which is out of the question. It’s a total leverage play. If Cuban went on ESPN saying that yes, they’ve made/taken calls about KP but can’t seem to find a deal, imagine what that does for Porzingis’ confidence or what it does to the locker room, or even what it would do for his trade value after the interview aired.

My guess (and I have nothing to back this up other than suspicion) is that Porzingis asked for a trade and Donnie put out feelers to see what kind of return they could get. They probably were getting lowballed and took him back off the market until he can hopefully regain his bubble form when they will revisit.

I’ve been following KP’s career from get go. Being a Canadian from the East Coast and not a New Yorker, I was able to not take his trade personally like many of the Knicks fans have done. I continued watching him with the Mavs and have been enjoying watching every game the last couple of years. It’s also my guess that he may have been the one that initiated a request to be traded. Just a theory, no inside information, but i’ve noticed KP showing some frustration at not getting a pass when he was open, either on the 3 pt line or close to the basket. I’ve noticed it so many times that I’ve wondered if anything was going on between he and Luka. Being a former athlete it's something that stands out to me when I see someone being almost freezed out of the play. I don’t know if they think he takes it too easy by taking too many 3s (he’s been attacking the basket more the past couple of games) but there is something going on, no doubt in my mind.

Also, agree with JD45, bubble KP is a top 20 player. You saw his potential in the 28/14 game, he was dominant. Coming back from those knee surgeries is not easy and it’s tough to get your timing back, it can take a while. There have been times, since coming back this year, when he’s looked like he’s lost some of that freakish athleticism that he had before the injures, other times he’s looked every bit as athletic. Now one thing that’s been attacked lately, has been his defensive capabilities. He was always a terrific defensive presence and a great rim protector, he always played hard on both sides of the ball. Had potential to be a great two way player, still does. I just wonder if his lacklustre play on the defensive end during a few games was another hint that he was looking to get out of Dallas.

All just my humble opinion.

J

[Mavrelous]

It's a test for Luka also, you need to feed your big man to keep him happy, BTW, KP clearly aired his frustration with Luka dominating the ball postgame press in OKC.

[Archx]

It's a test for Luka also, you need to feed your big man to keep him happy, BTW, KP clearly aired his frustration with Luka dominating the ball postgame press in OKC.

Maxi and DFS are more capable of getting themselves open shots than KP. After he sets a poor screen he just stands there and is waiting for Santa Claus to arrive or something. I get really triggered when people suggest Luka is not feeding him the ball. Barkley and Shaq both talked about this many times, if KP wants the ball, get in the post and freaking demand it. Set your legs and body and work for it!
So far, we all know how bad KP has been in the post and last game vs SAS, he actually moved around a lot. Was running to the rim, set more screens for Luka than i can remember and was ACTIVE. KP can only blame himself or his freaking knee like he always does...

But people need to observe more how many times Doncic gestures towards his teammates to swing the ball around when KP gets in to the post area. It's really a simple math, bubble KP was active and had a lot of energy, so far this season, KP was anything but active. We all know how many times he just camped the 3pt line and was not moving at all.

[Mavrelous]

No one absolving KP, but Luka needs to keep feeding him every time he gets into the post, remeber, it's Luka's team, and just based on the body language and demeanor, he is the adult, and KP is a bit childish, so if Luka wants this team to be more than play in/1st round exist, he needs to take care of his big man.

[JD45]

I haven't noticed a KP/Luka pick and roll in a long time. They just do pick and pops with Luka going to the basket. It does seem odd.

They have been trying to get KP the ball in the post more. Carlisle had previously said it was Luka calling those plays and the coach doesn't like post ups. It is all a bit strange. KP is a terrific offensive talent, and a lot more of the offense should be built around him. The offense seems to be a lot of just give Luka the ball and run the screens he calls while everyone else stands at the 3 point line. I am sure there is more to it than that, but there doesn't seem to be much sophistication to it. I rarely ever see the Mavs score and think it was a nice play design. It always seems to be individual effort.

[ozwizard8]

It's a test for Luka also, you need to feed your big man to keep him happy, BTW, KP clearly aired his frustration with Luka dominating the ball postgame press in OKC.

Maxi and DFS are more capable of getting themselves open shots than KP. After he sets a poor screen he just stands there and is waiting for Santa Claus to arrive or something. I get really triggered when people suggest Luka is not feeding him the ball. Barkley and Shaq both talked about this many times, if KP wants the ball, get in the post and freaking demand it. Set your legs and body and work for it!
So far, we all know how bad KP has been in the post and last game vs SAS, he actually moved around a lot. Was running to the rim, set more screens for Luka than i can remember and was ACTIVE. KP can only blame himself or his freaking knee like he always does...

But people need to observe more how many times Doncic gestures towards his teammates to swing the ball around when KP gets in to the post area. It's really a simple math, bubble KP was active and had a lot of energy, so far this season, KP was anything but active. We all know how many times he just camped the 3pt line and was not moving at all.

Sometimes, Doncic sags KP off when he has open 3pt look. But I must say, those are not wide open, set-feet looks. Mostly, pick n pop looks. Its not a good idea to overuse pick n pop because it makes your offense 1 dimensional. Doncic likes to run the offense versatile. KP also look for the ball even if he is open for a halfcourt shot. KP somehow thinks his half-court shots are good or some of his weird angle, poor leg setting shots are ok. They're not and Doncic does the right thing and deny him.

I think they talked about this internally and decided to pass the ball when KP gets a position inside. Luka usually does that with a hockey pass and it works well so far.

A good offensive player does not mean who scores 25 ppg. KP should get the ball where he command double teams, help defense. Only S.Curry and Lillard gets that high attention of defense for that halfcourt-3pt shot range. KP won't be getting that for most of the games. However, KP would get a lot of double team due to mismatches inside. And that should create open shots, driving lanes.

[Archx]

It's a test for Luka also, you need to feed your big man to keep him happy, BTW, KP clearly aired his frustration with Luka dominating the ball postgame press in OKC.

Maxi and DFS are more capable of getting themselves open shots than KP. After he sets a poor screen he just stands there and is waiting for Santa Claus to arrive or something. I get really triggered when people suggest Luka is not feeding him the ball. Barkley and Shaq both talked about this many times, if KP wants the ball, get in the post and freaking demand it. Set your legs and body and work for it!
So far, we all know how bad KP has been in the post and last game vs SAS, he actually moved around a lot. Was running to the rim, set more screens for Luka than i can remember and was ACTIVE. KP can only blame himself or his freaking knee like he always does...

But people need to observe more how many times Doncic gestures towards his teammates to swing the ball around when KP gets in to the post area. It's really a simple math, bubble KP was active and had a lot of energy, so far this season, KP was anything but active. We all know how many times he just camped the 3pt line and was not moving at all.

Sometimes, Doncic sags KP off when he has open 3pt look. But I must say, those are not wide open, set-feet looks. Mostly, pick n pop looks. Its not a good idea to overuse pick n pop because it makes your offense 1 dimensional. Doncic likes to run the offense versatile. KP also look for the ball even if he is open for a halfcourt shot. KP somehow thinks his half-court shots are good or some of his weird angle, poor leg setting shots are ok. They're not and Doncic does the right thing and deny him.

I think they talked about this internally and decided to pass the ball when KP gets a position inside. Luka usually does that with a hockey pass and it works well so far.

A good offensive player does not mean who scores 25 ppg. KP should get the ball where he command double teams, help defense. Only S.Curry and Lillard gets that high attention of defense for that halfcourt-3pt shot range. KP won't be getting that for most of the games. However, KP would get a lot of double team due to mismatches inside. And that should create open shots, driving lanes.

Luka and KP should run PnR 24/7. Stockton and Malone could have won 2 rings with the same principle if it wasn't for MJ. I guess KP is not fully there yet to play like that and his weak screens are no help either. I mean, if WCS can look great in PnR action i see no reason why it couldn't work with a much superior player than WCS.

[ozwizard8]

Luka and KP should run PnR 24/7. Stockton and Malone could have won 2 rings with the same principle if it wasn't for MJ. I guess KP is not fully there yet to play like that and his weak screens are no help either. I mean, if WCS can look great in PnR action i see no reason why it couldn't work with a much superior player than WCS.

With all those injuries and the ongoing recovery, KP kinda hesitates for hard cuts and challenged lobs. He still does those but I understand that is not his #1 option. Honestly, his p&p game is also good so it does not matter much.
The game is so different than 30 years ago. During that Jazz era, there weren't this much help defense. Its not that simple to run p&r or pick n pop all game anymore.
Nonetheless, the Doncic-KP two men game should be bread and butter for Mavs in playoffs similar to Murray-Jokic.

[Archx]

Luka and KP should run PnR 24/7. Stockton and Malone could have won 2 rings with the same principle if it wasn't for MJ. I guess KP is not fully there yet to play like that and his weak screens are no help either. I mean, if WCS can look great in PnR action i see no reason why it couldn't work with a much superior player than WCS.

With all those injuries and the ongoing recovery, KP kinda hesitates for hard cuts and challenged lobs. He still does those but I understand that is not his #1 option. Honestly, his p&p game is also good so it does not matter much.
The game is so different than 30 years ago. During that Jazz era, there weren't this much help defense. Its not that simple to run p&r or pick n pop all game anymore.
Nonetheless, the Doncic-KP two men game should be bread and butter for Mavs in playoffs similar to Murray-Jokic.

Players got better and are making more long shots than ever, more or less things are happening around the 3pt line, in the 90's and later on, offense was oriented more towards the basket.
But, PnR game is still and always will be one of the best, if not the best, option on offense. It completely opens up everything. Every team runs it but obviously not every team has perfect players for that. Mavs run a ton of PnR action with Luka and it obviously works, they did it before Luka even arrived but he's one of the best along with CP3. I'm just saying, KP needs to figure it out sooner than later because SAS game proved it that he can play much more effective than just standing around the 3pt line.

[Jethrobodine123]

It's a test for Luka also, you need to feed your big man to keep him happy, BTW, KP clearly aired his frustration with Luka dominating the ball postgame press in OKC.

Maxi and DFS are more capable of getting themselves open shots than KP. After he sets a poor screen he just stands there and is waiting for Santa Claus to arrive or something. I get really triggered when people suggest Luka is not feeding him the ball. Barkley and Shaq both talked about this many times, if KP wants the ball, get in the post and freaking demand it. Set your legs and body and work for it!
So far, we all know how bad KP has been in the post and last game vs SAS, he actually moved around a lot. Was running to the rim, set more screens for Luka than i can remember and was ACTIVE. KP can only blame himself or his freaking knee like he always does...

But people need to observe more how many times Doncic gestures towards his teammates to swing the ball around when KP gets in to the post area. It's really a simple math, bubble KP was active and had a lot of energy, so far this season, KP was anything but active. We all know how many times he just camped the 3pt line and was not moving at all.

KP has always been a bit tentative when it comes to screens, always trying to avoid full contact, but it's understandable if you're 7'3" with a light build you're lower body takes a pounding and add to that a couple of knee surgeries, well you can see where I'm going with this...

J

[Jethrobodine123]

I haven't noticed a KP/Luka pick and roll in a long time. They just do pick and pops with Luka going to the basket. It does seem odd.

Having played some ball, there have been times when I thought to myself, man KP was really open there after the P&R, there was a huge window to throw him the ball, at times he was well ahead of his defender, with an easy dunk but Luka would just look him off. I've seen it many many times. I could sense some frustration there and can't say I blamed him. I just feel there's something there.

The Mavs have been playing so much better the last 10-12 games, it's hard to believe they would shake things up now unless it was KP looking for a greener pasture.

J

[Darren]

KP, J-Rich, Iwundu for Markkanen, Carter, Porter, anyone?

[dirkules_41]

KP, J-Rich, Iwundu for Markkanen, Carter, Porter, anyone?

No way

[JD45]

KP, J-Rich, Iwundu for Markkanen, Carter, Porter, anyone?

I think those are all players the Mavs would value and like to have on the team. But KP is by far the better player in the deal and while there are complaints about his injury history, he as played more games the last 2 seasons than Markkanen or Porter.

[Mike lorenzo]

If KP didn't play 80 games ..will give you 60. along the lines of Embiid, Davis (Top) or Gallinari, Porter (Good) ...
I guess KP is in the middle, in terms of talent ...
if he plays Playoff, I think we could live with this ..
If the coin lands on the other side ... it kills us.
He was risky for the Mavs ,without being a great FA destination ... and no chances in the Draft .. Having so much money tied up ...
to a guy who is unfortunately made of glass ...
I think a trade with Pelicans might make sense.
KP seems to be a perfect fit with Zion ... at least on paper.
Option 1
KP / Johnson / Dallas 26 / Green for Ingram / Adams

Option 2 (eat Bledsoe as compensation)
Johnson / KP for Bledsoe / Ingram.

Option 3
KP / Green / Dallas26 for Ingram / Hayes ...

What do you think ..

[Mavrelous]

NOP won't trade a player who they commited the max to, for KP.
I do think KP is a great fit in NOP next to Zion, but I don't think they are willing to part with Ingram.
Maybe in the offseason, if they continue to suck, and KP gives another bubble-like second half season, things will change.

[ozwizard8]

If KP didn't play 80 games ..will give you 60. along the lines of Embiid, Davis (Top) or Gallinari, Porter (Good) ...
I guess KP is in the middle, in terms of talent ...
if he plays Playoff, I think we could live with this ..
If the coin lands on the other side ... it kills us.
He was risky for the Mavs ,without being a great FA destination ... and no chances in the Draft .. Having so much money tied up ...
to a guy who is unfortunately made of glass ...
I think a trade with Pelicans might make sense.
KP seems to be a perfect fit with Zion ... at least on paper.
Option 1
KP / Johnson / Dallas 26 / Green for Ingram / Adams

Option 2 (eat Bledsoe as compensation)
Johnson / KP for Bledsoe / Ingram.

Option 3
KP / Green / Dallas26 for Ingram / Hayes ...

What do you think ..

These are fair trade offers but we don't know what GM's thinking.
KP's upside is greater but the injury concerns kinda balance out the values of those players. KP can impact the game on defense with blocks/rim protection and on offense when he finds his rhythm, he can look like 7'3 KD for some stretches.

Honestly, I suspect that Ingram is a bad team good stats guy. If you give him the ball many times, then he'll have that 20-25 ppg. I am not sure if he adds that much value though. And personality-wise, his interest in the game is kinda susceptible. I'd not mind signing him at FA if he was available but I am not sure if Mavs should part ways with KP for him. NOP probably don't want to give up on him either. Having both Zion-KP injury concerns would be too much for them.

Mavs primary need is defense. Mavs miss rim protection and rebounding from time to time. The biggest issue seems to be defending elite wingmen. There is no single player to lockdown players like Kawhi-Lebron etc but you can have some personnel to slow down those players. Even Micheal Porter Jr. torches Mavs every time.
I think Luka/Mavs need S.Marion and T.Chandler. Marion was a very good defender at SF/PF and Chandler was offering rim protection and rebounding for Dirk. On offense, Dirk's offensive firepower was enough. Of course, Mavs had J.Kidd and J.Terry for secondary scoring options but those parts are not that hard to find. THJ-Seth-Brunson type of players can replicate J.Terry on offense.

I think KP's fit with Doncic is pretty good. For playoffs, KP is a great player to have for almost any team when he is healthy.
Mavs just needs better versions of DFS-WCS to have that Marion-Chandler defensive setting. WCS lacks strength, defensive BBIQ and rebounding compared to Tyson Chandler. DFS is a great teammate but he's not that tall or athletic to challenge Lebron/MPJ as much as Marion did. Its also important to note that, DFS-Kleber would defend better if they had a strong rim protector C behind. Waiting until the 21 FA makes sense. Let's see if WCS improves furthermore. I think he has physical tools. A solid 25 minutes from a defensive C would help a lot. And I really hope for DFS to take a step forward to become an elite defender like Tucker.

I think KP is a top 30 maybe top 20 player and I am not sure if we should trade him until getting some other rim protector big men. Ingram would not solve Mavs problems.

[Mike lorenzo]

If KP didn't play 80 games ..will give you 60. along the lines of Embiid, Davis (Top) or Gallinari, Porter (Good) ...
I guess KP is in the middle, in terms of talent ...
if he plays Playoff, I think we could live with this ..
If the coin lands on the other side ... it kills us.
He was risky for the Mavs ,without being a great FA destination ... and no chances in the Draft .. Having so much money tied up ...
to a guy who is unfortunately made of glass ...
I think a trade with Pelicans might make sense.
KP seems to be a perfect fit with Zion ... at least on paper.
Option 1
KP / Johnson / Dallas 26 / Green for Ingram / Adams

Option 2 (eat Bledsoe as compensation)
Johnson / KP for Bledsoe / Ingram.

Option 3
KP / Green / Dallas26 for Ingram / Hayes ...

What do you think ..

These are fair trade offers but we don't know what GM's thinking.
KP's upside is greater but the injury concerns kinda balance out the values of those players. KP can impact the game on defense with blocks/rim protection and on offense when he finds his rhythm, he can look like 7'3 KD for some stretches.

Honestly, I suspect that Ingram is a bad team good stats guy. If you give him the ball many times, then he'll have that 20-25 ppg. I am not sure if he adds that much value though. And personality-wise, his interest in the game is kinda susceptible. I'd not mind signing him at FA if he was available but I am not sure if Mavs should part ways with KP for him. NOP probably don't want to give up on him either. Having both Zion-KP injury concerns would be too much for them.

Mavs primary need is defense. Mavs miss rim protection and rebounding from time to time. The biggest issue seems to be defending elite wingmen. There is no single player to lockdown players like Kawhi-Lebron etc but you can have some personnel to slow down those players. Even Micheal Porter Jr. torches Mavs every time.
I think Luka/Mavs need S.Marion and T.Chandler. Marion was a very good defender at SF/PF and Chandler was offering rim protection and rebounding for Dirk. On offense, Dirk's offensive firepower was enough. Of course, Mavs had J.Kidd and J.Terry for secondary scoring options but those parts are not that hard to find. THJ-Seth-Brunson type of players can replicate J.Terry on offense.

I think KP's fit with Doncic is pretty good. For playoffs, KP is a great player to have for almost any team when he is healthy.
Mavs just needs better versions of DFS-WCS to have that Marion-Chandler defensive setting. WCS lacks strength, defensive BBIQ and rebounding compared to Tyson Chandler. DFS is a great teammate but he's not that tall or athletic to challenge Lebron/MPJ as much as Marion did. Its also important to note that, DFS-Kleber would defend better if they had a strong rim protector C behind. Waiting until the 21 FA makes sense. Let's see if WCS improves furthermore. I think he has physical tools. A solid 25 minutes from a defensive C would help a lot. And I really hope for DFS to take a step forward to become an elite defender like Tucker.

I think KP is a top 30 maybe top 20 player and I am not sure if we should trade him until getting some other rim protector big men. Ingram would not solve Mavs problems.

Ingram's idea .. I don't see another achievable young "big player" .. don't get me wrong, I love the KP game, fear for its knees..not sure it's a good idea in the long run..that is how we seem to want to build Ideally I would want Turner / Anunoby..I don't see how we could catch them, even with KP available

[JJP]

Probably one of the least likely players to be traded is KP. There's just very little out there that would be a good match even if they wanted to trade.

It's far more likely someone like Johnson and/or a rookie get traded. Maybe Richardson. Maybe Hardaway. But the only trade scenario that seems likely is something much smaller than most of what's in this thread.