Around the NBA

[SUN]

Griffin pulling a more lowkey Vince Carter and getting his smile and legs back after a buyout would be a pleasant surprise. He truly seems cooked though.

[starbosa10]

Wow
Griffin ending up to be a $60,000,000 mistake. What GM has that one on their Rezzer? We dodged that bullet.

Will be interesting to see what castoff we embrace. Is Jones being coy till KLove takes a buyout?

I would have to think we are monitoring the buyout market given we opened up a spot on the roster

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

[wheezy]

Forgot to look/post but here is the Suns portion of last Friday's 10 things from Lowe. No videos this time! And I would tend to agree with his PS.

Spoiler:

3. Phoenix without both star guards
I assume Monty Williams will scrap this in the playoffs, but any minutes the Phoenix Suns -- 16-3 in their past 19 games! -- play without both Chris Paul and Devin Booker feel needlessly precarious.

Opponents have outscored the Suns by four points per 100 possessions with both All-Stars resting. The Suns have scrounged only 100 points per 100 possessions in those minutes -- four below the Oklahoma City Thunder's cellar-dwelling offense.

The Booker-Paul pairing feels like a strong case for fairly extreme staggering in the way the Houston Rockets staggered Paul and James Harden. Both guys dominate the ball and frolic in the midrange. The Suns are plus-14 points per 100 possessions when Paul goes solo, and plus-11 in Booker-only minutes, per NBA.com.

That said, the Suns have started rolling with both stars on the floor after losing those minutes over the first six weeks. Since Feb. 1, Phoenix has walloped opponents by 14 points per 100 possessions when Paul and Booker play together. Some star duos have such a powerful amplifying effect on each other that maximizing their shared time ends up the right call. Booker and Paul are developing synergy, including on set plays.

Both stars are dangerous shooters capable of starting possessions away from the ball. The Paul-Booker pick-and-roll could be a situational weapon, since Booker can bully some point guards on switches. Williams might be playing the smart long game by sacrificing some meaningless regular-season minutes to ignite chemistry between his stars.

In the playoffs, though, staggering appears the right call.

PS: Despite what the numbers say now, I still think the Suns' original starting lineup -- with Jae Crowder at power forward -- is their best starting five.

[lilfishi22]

I'm probably just making up a narrative but those negative non-CP3/Booker minutes played likely would've been impacted by Dario (who's been really f'n good this season) missing a good chunk of the season and Cam Payne also missing a bunch of games and only just starting to look like himself.

In the long run, I'm not nearly as worried as Lowe when it comes to non-CP3/Booker minutes because I doubt there would be much non-CP3/Booker minutes in the playoffs and Dario/Payne provides good continuity when CP3/Book are off.

[Revived]

I kinda agree with what fishi said about Saric and Payne missing games. But at the same time, yes we absolutely should be staggering their minutes anyway. There should only be like a 2 min stretch (at most) in a half in which both aren’t on the court. Of course I’m excluding injury or foul trouble scenarios in which there may be a larger stretch of time with both off the court.

If Payne can get his form back then with him and Saric, we can withstand some games with both of them on the bench. Of course this is also if Saric can stay healthy.

Against most good teams though (the type we play in the playoffs like Lowe mentioned), staggering their mins will absolutely be needed.

[wheezy]

Yeah I think once the playoffs start we'll get back to a rotation somewhat similar to the bubble games, where CP3 and Book are staggered and Book is out there playing with Payne and that crew. Hopefully Saric stays healthy the rest of the way though. Seemed like he really found his groove in the bubble last season and is absolutely going to factor into how far we're able to go this year.

[Bogyo]

A Payne/Moore/Cam/Frank/Dario lineup should have enough playmaking (Payne and Dario) and smart, crisp passing (Moore/Cam/Frank) to survive 2+2 minutes in each half without Book or Paul. If you stagger in other starters it could even be better. So yeah, while all things considered it's not ideal to have them both sit at the same time, we should do OK in these situations.

*edit: some of the bad numbers could also be coming from blowout games where none of them was on the floor for the last couple minutes. I've just checked, we've had 12 games this year where the final difference was more than 15 points. I'm pretty sure both of them were sitting in the last couple of minutes of those games - for a good reason.

[bwgood77]

A Payne/Moore/Cam/Frank/Dario lineup should have enough playmaking (Payne and Dario) and smart, crisp passing (Moore/Cam/Frank) to survive 2+2 minutes in each half without Book or Paul. If you stagger in other starters it could even be better. So yeah, while all things considered it's not ideal to have them both sit at the same time, we should do OK in these situations.

*edit: some of the bad numbers could also be coming from blowout games where none of them was on the floor for the last couple minutes. I've just checked, we've had 12 games this year where the final difference was more than 15 points. I'm pretty sure both of them were sitting in the last couple of minutes of those games - for a good reason.

I was thinking of the blowout minutes too.

But basically this stuff needs to be monitored if used. Given that they score 114 ppp with both or Paul alone, and 110 with Booker alone, but 100 with neither, which is lower than OKC, that is not worth playing much even if you subtract the minimal garbage minutes.

We also don't typically play a lot of garbage minutes...only 1-2 minutes a game anyway.

There really is no need not to have those minutes unless absolutely needed. 16 with both and 16 with one, for each of them is not that many minutes..or even more with Booker and no Paul if Paul needs less than 32 minutes....especially in the playoffs.

[SunsRback4Good]

Shaq and Barkley heated argument over Chris Paul MVP case

Watch on YouTube

[lilfishi22]

Shaq is an idiot on the show. He was one of the most dominant players in NBA history, has the rings, has been an MVP, 4x Finals MVP and basically every other accolade you could collect but the guy is a really poor analyst.

I agree that CP3 probably isn't MVP in the league but how can you argue that he can't be in the conversation? This point that Shaq is making about only one player can be MVP and so only a singular player who could actually win MVP can be considered in the MVP conversation is so stupid. So in the year where Steph won unanimous MVP, we shouldn't even talk about Lebron? KD? Kawhi?

It's a conversation not a fact

[Saberestar]

Wow, the Rockets have thrown in the towell and they are playing just raw young players and journaymen.

Eric Gordon injured for the rest of the season (or close to it), PJ Tucker will be traded or bought out, Cousins already waived, Wall resting and Oladipo does not want to sign an extension with them.

They are done. Good for us because they were a playoff team at the start of the season...but now they look a bottom team in the West for years to come.

[Fo-Real]

Wow, the Rockets have thrown in the towell and they are playing just raw young players and journaymen.

Eric Gordon injured for the rest of the season (or close to it), PJ Tucker will be traded or bought out, Cousins already waived, Wall resting and Oladipo does not want to sign an extension with them.

They are done. Good for us because they were a playoff team at the start of the season...but now they look a bottom team in the West for years to come.

Getting Oladipo instead of LeVert and Allen was criminally stupid!!

[bwgood77]

Wow, the Rockets have thrown in the towell and they are playing just raw young players and journaymen.

Eric Gordon injured for the rest of the season (or close to it), PJ Tucker will be traded or bought out, Cousins already waived, Wall resting and Oladipo does not want to sign an extension with them.

They are done. Good for us because they were a playoff team at the start of the season...but now they look a bottom team in the West for years to come.

Getting Oladipo instead of LeVert and Allen was criminally stupid!!

Yeah, what the hell? Why wouldn't they want Allen? I can in some ways see wanting Dipo over LeVert (though LeVert is one of my favorite non-Suns), especially if they knew about LeVert's injury, but Dipo was kind of rumored to want to go to specific places.

Wall has played really well for them though, but with Wood being out so long, and Wall and Dipo in and out with injuries, they hurt. They still have Wall who looks a lot better than I'm sure most expected, Wood, quite a few picks and whatever they can get in a Dipo trade, so they might not be too bad of a team...big problem is they are in the west so relatively speaking, they will be bad.

[Fo-Real]

Wow, the Rockets have thrown in the towell and they are playing just raw young players and journaymen.

Eric Gordon injured for the rest of the season (or close to it), PJ Tucker will be traded or bought out, Cousins already waived, Wall resting and Oladipo does not want to sign an extension with them.

They are done. Good for us because they were a playoff team at the start of the season...but now they look a bottom team in the West for years to come.

Getting Oladipo instead of LeVert and Allen was criminally stupid!!

Yeah, what the hell? Why wouldn't they want Allen? I can in some ways see wanting Dipo over LeVert (though LeVert is one of my favorite non-Suns), especially if they knew about LeVert's injury, but Dipo was kind of rumored to want to go to specific places.

Wall has played really well for them though, but with Wood being out so long, and Wall and Dipo in and out with injuries, they hurt. They still have Wall who looks a lot better than I'm sure most expected, Wood, quite a few picks and whatever they can get in a Dipo trade, so they might not be too bad of a team...big problem is they are in the west so relatively speaking, they will be bad.

And Oldipo has NO INTENTION of staying!! No chance he resigns with them.

[Kerrsed]

Wall/LeVert/HouseJr/Wood/Allen would have been a real nice starting 5 with some room for improvement at SF. If your a team like the Rockets and giving up your playoff-spot and superstar players, that would have been a real nice rebuild on the fly.

But i think that Houston instead just wanted to clean house and tank this season. One of the best drafts in recent memory, some saying it is rivaling the 2003 draft, if you are completely rebuilding, this is the draft that you want to use, not just because of the "Star Power" at the top of the draft, but also because of the depth of talent that will also be available later on. New owners, New FO, clearing house, getting rid of all the big money contracts that they can, so they can rebuild in the upcoming drafts and play/pay a bunch of youngins on rookie contracts.

Could have had a 26 year old LeVert locked into a 3 year deal making $16M a season along with Allen on his amazing 1 year $4M contract, but pass that up for a washed up injury riddled Oladipo making $21M on an expiring contract??? Makes no sense whatsoever basketball wise.

I also think they wernt expecting Wall to be playing as well as he has, and were more hoping that he would once again injure himself so they wouldnt have to pay him and could write it off and have the league cover it. 30 years old and had only played 73 games in the last 3 seasons total while returning from not having played for almost 2 years. You trade a walking Triple-Double in Westbrook for that??? Nah fam, you were hoping for the worst and it backfired. Dump his best friend and lets see how sh*tty we can really make this team play!

[bwgood77]

Wall/LeVert/HouseJr/Wood/Allen would have been a real nice starting 5 with some room for improvement at SF. If your a team like the Rockets and giving up your playoff-spot and superstar players, that would have been a real nice rebuild on the fly.

But i think that Houston instead just wanted to clean house and tank this season. One of the best drafts in recent memory, some saying it is rivaling the 2003 draft, if you are completely rebuilding, this is the draft that you want to use, not just because of the "Star Power" at the top of the draft, but also because of the depth of talent that will also be available later on. New owners, New FO, clearing house, getting rid of all the big money contracts that they can, so they can rebuild in the upcoming drafts and play/pay a bunch of youngins on rookie contracts.

Could have had a 26 year old LeVert locked into a 3 year deal making $16M a season along with Allen on his amazing 1 year $4M contract, but pass that up for a washed up injury riddled Oladipo making $21M on an expiring contract??? Makes no sense whatsoever basketball wise.

I also think they wernt expecting Wall to be playing as well as he has, and were more hoping that he would once again injure himself so they wouldnt have to pay him and could write it off and have the league cover it. 30 years old and had only played 73 games in the last 3 seasons total while returning from not having played for almost 2 years. You trade a walking Triple-Double in Westbrook for that??? Nah fam, you were hoping for the worst and it backfired. Dump his best friend and lets see how sh*tty we can really make this team play!

You think they declined on LeVert and Allen to tank? I don't think they sign Wood to a 3 year deal if they wanted to tank...and they wanted Dipo. They still want him.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I don't know why they didn't want Allen. If you are tanking to go young, he's the type of player you want to find when rebuilding...though maybe the view Wood as a C.

Now if you meant they decided to tank after all their injuries to start the season even though they started it with Wall/Gordon/House Jr/Tucker/Wood and then added Dipo with the Harden trade, and now are willing to deal Tucker, Dipo (if they think he's unlikely to stay), Gordon, etc....I agree...I think at this point it's worth being sellers..obviously the west is too tough to make it and these guys are all expiring anyway...wouldn't make sense to keep them...unless you can't get a good return on Dipo and hope he re-signs.

Since so much of the league his hovering around 500, any team that sells around now should be able to finish with one of the worst 4 records...and the bottom 4 almost all have equal odds at the top pick (bottom 3 are equal).

[dremill24]

Wow, the Rockets have thrown in the towell and they are playing just raw young players and journaymen.

Eric Gordon injured for the rest of the season (or close to it), PJ Tucker will be traded or bought out, Cousins already waived, Wall resting and Oladipo does not want to sign an extension with them.

They are done. Good for us because they were a playoff team at the start of the season...but now they look a bottom team in the West for years to come.

Getting Oladipo instead of LeVert and Allen was criminally stupid!!

Yeah, what the hell? Why wouldn't they want Allen? I can in some ways see wanting Dipo over LeVert (though LeVert is one of my favorite non-Suns), especially if they knew about LeVert's injury, but Dipo was kind of rumored to want to go to specific places.

Wall has played really well for them though, but with Wood being out so long, and Wall and Dipo in and out with injuries, they hurt. They still have Wall who looks a lot better than I'm sure most expected, Wood, quite a few picks and whatever they can get in a Dipo trade, so they might not be too bad of a team...big problem is they are in the west so relatively speaking, they will be bad.

I find the combination of your disdain for isolation play and affinity for LeVert interesting. Care to elaborate?

[bwgood77]

Getting Oladipo instead of LeVert and Allen was criminally stupid!!

Yeah, what the hell? Why wouldn't they want Allen? I can in some ways see wanting Dipo over LeVert (though LeVert is one of my favorite non-Suns), especially if they knew about LeVert's injury, but Dipo was kind of rumored to want to go to specific places.

Wall has played really well for them though, but with Wood being out so long, and Wall and Dipo in and out with injuries, they hurt. They still have Wall who looks a lot better than I'm sure most expected, Wood, quite a few picks and whatever they can get in a Dipo trade, so they might not be too bad of a team...big problem is they are in the west so relatively speaking, they will be bad.

I find the combination of your disdain for isolation play and affinity for LeVert interesting. Care to elaborate?

You're right it's probably pretty irrational. I think it comes down to a few things. Probably first and foremost because I really liked him in the draft and because I really like high iq players who have great court vision and look to make plays for others, particularly if they are not point guards and they still share the ball. Coming out he was a very well rounded player averaging about 5 assists per game on about a 3/1 ast/to ratio, and he was somewhere near that this year too. I also really like shooters and he shot almost 45% from 3.

I also pulled for him because I felt it was unfortunate he had dealt with so many injuries, and then has continued to do so, and then of course the most recent one is frightening.

But he is up there in isos in the league too. I have always thought of him as a great piece, like a 3rd guy on a team or a glue guy, but his he has increasingly iso'd, especially going into last year, though he spent much of it as kind of "the guy" as well. He's not a great iso player either. So yes, that would be the part of his game I could do with less of.

In general I like ball movement and scoring within the offense more, and for example, my favorite non Sun is probably Jokic, and although Embiid is great at what he does, I much prefer the type of game that Jokic brings.

Of course I love the season we are having and our two main players are two of the biggest isolation players in the game.

And if iso'ing works, it's hard to argue against. I enjoyed Harden's game a lot more before it became so iso heavy. I love parts of Doncic's game but obviously he does a lot of iso.

In general, if you can score a point per possession iso'ing I think it's fine...and I know LeVert is below that, so I think he should probably do less of it.

What I like least is when someone dribbles a lot to find the right spot to iso, especially if they are being defended. I really enjoy watching the flow of the game and a beautiful offense with ball movement more than a one man show of great moves and shots, even if it works most of the time. I don't really enjoy watching Harden these days even though he is the best iso player in the game.

I guess there are just reasons I always kind of pulled/pull for LeVert...feeling he was a very solid all around player who dropped too far in the draft because of injuries and then maybe that drop was warranted because the injuries continued....and then he starts to finally get his recognition and has his most recent issue.

Funny thing is I kind of felt similarly about Brogdon. Then of course you have Warren who I'm one of the few people who liked, also unfortunately dealing with a ton of injuries...now I know he wasn't a passer but I loved watching the way he could score in all sorts of ways. Throw in Sabonis and his great passing....I'd have to say the Pacers, when healthy, are probably the most intriguing team to me after the Suns...and they have an AZ alum putting up a recent triple double too.

Of course I hope we crush them tonight.

[King4Day]

Thought this was pretty funny