"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[MagicBagley18]

Jaylen is easily the 2nd top guy on a championship team.

His play level dropped off when his knee got sore. Healthy he is a stud, unhealthy and he is unimproved on last season.

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

Your asking this board if they expected their binky to continue to shoot mj god levels from mid range?

[BK_2020]

MJ was shooting like 27-32% from 16 ft out three point line in his second three peat. Jaylen is shooting 53.7% from that range and that’s after a massive correction.

[fallguy]

I havent been over here as much as I have in the past (still catching about 80% of Celtics games though). Curious what the feeling is with what direction this team needs to go roster construction wise.

Is everyone sold on Tatum/Brown as the top two guys? Like from here on out every roster move should be based around, "how does this player fit with Tatum/Brown"? Are people looking to keep those two and the rest of the roster is open to be moved?

Or more just of a, we need some small moves like an offensive microwave scorer specialist. Or a defensive big specialist?

Watching this team it feels like yall are kind of just stuck in the middle of everything. Its like they want Tatum/Brown to be the cornerstones of the roster, but havent really begun to build the roster around those two, it feels like Ainge is just trying to collect any kind of talent and hoping Stevens can make it work.

Or are people questioning the Tatum/Brown fit and think it would be best to flip one of them with the hope of a new star blood might get things clicking again in the right direction?

We are counting on Harrison Barnes to deliver our next few championships.

So...

[Feed Your Head]

Jaylen is easily the 2nd top guy on a championship team.

His play level dropped off when his knee got sore. Healthy he is a stud, unhealthy and he is unimproved on last season.

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

Your asking this board if they expected their binky to continue to shoot mj god levels from mid range?

You done did it

[Tyakack]

I havent been over here as much as I have in the past (still catching about 80% of Celtics games though). Curious what the feeling is with what direction this team needs to go roster construction wise.

Is everyone sold on Tatum/Brown as the top two guys? Like from here on out every roster move should be based around, "how does this player fit with Tatum/Brown"? Are people looking to keep those two and the rest of the roster is open to be moved?

Or more just of a, we need some small moves like an offensive microwave scorer specialist. Or a defensive big specialist?

Watching this team it feels like yall are kind of just stuck in the middle of everything. Its like they want Tatum/Brown to be the cornerstones of the roster, but havent really begun to build the roster around those two, it feels like Ainge is just trying to collect any kind of talent and hoping Stevens can make it work.

Or are people questioning the Tatum/Brown fit and think it would be best to flip one of them with the hope of a new star blood might get things clicking again in the right direction?

No, if it were up to me brown would be gone and harden would be here. Instead, harden is on the nets and we are little brother with no chance of beating them until they disband. This patience game is working out splendidly so far. Waiting around while other teams build real contenders is fun. I hope tatum agrees.

[MagicBagley18]

I havent been over here as much as I have in the past (still catching about 80% of Celtics games though). Curious what the feeling is with what direction this team needs to go roster construction wise.

Is everyone sold on Tatum/Brown as the top two guys? Like from here on out every roster move should be based around, "how does this player fit with Tatum/Brown"? Are people looking to keep those two and the rest of the roster is open to be moved?

Or more just of a, we need some small moves like an offensive microwave scorer specialist. Or a defensive big specialist?

Watching this team it feels like yall are kind of just stuck in the middle of everything. Its like they want Tatum/Brown to be the cornerstones of the roster, but havent really begun to build the roster around those two, it feels like Ainge is just trying to collect any kind of talent and hoping Stevens can make it work.

Or are people questioning the Tatum/Brown fit and think it would be best to flip one of them with the hope of a new star blood might get things clicking again in the right direction?

No, if it were up to me brown would be gone and harden would be here. Instead, harden is on the nets and we are little brother with no chance of beating them until they disband. This patience game is working out splendidly so far. Waiting around while other teams build real contenders is fun. I hope tatum agrees.

Once more for the people in the back please

[LuckyLeprechaun]

Jaylen is easily the 2nd top guy on a championship team.

His play level dropped off when his knee got sore. Healthy he is a stud, unhealthy and he is unimproved on last season.

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

Your asking this board if they expected their binky to continue to shoot mj god levels from mid range?

MJs shooting numbers are not god-tier in this era. They were in the 90s, but there's a ton of highly efficient shooters in the league now. It wasn't some Jaylen phenomenon. Of course MJ would probably shoot at way higher numbers in this era if he played in it too.

[Duke4life831]

Jaylen is easily the 2nd top guy on a championship team.

His play level dropped off when his knee got sore. Healthy he is a stud, unhealthy and he is unimproved on last season.

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

You saw something similar with Siakam last year with the Raptors. Started off super hot in his new role with more offensive responsibilities. That lasted 25 games or so. Then he went out for a few games and came back and was never the same. The timing of the injury was more coincidence than anything else. Around that time teams began to finally scout Siakam as more of an offensive threat. His normal basic moves were no longer enough to get consistent baskets in the half court.

Brown opened up crazy hot the first 18 games of the season averaging 27ppg on 62 TS%. The last 16 games though, 21ppg on 53 TS%.

How much is that the knee, how much of that is defenses finally adjusting to his new role, and him struggling to get consistent buckets against a defense that is focused more on him now?

[Duke4life831]

I havent been over here as much as I have in the past (still catching about 80% of Celtics games though). Curious what the feeling is with what direction this team needs to go roster construction wise.

Is everyone sold on Tatum/Brown as the top two guys? Like from here on out every roster move should be based around, "how does this player fit with Tatum/Brown"? Are people looking to keep those two and the rest of the roster is open to be moved?

Or more just of a, we need some small moves like an offensive microwave scorer specialist. Or a defensive big specialist?

Watching this team it feels like yall are kind of just stuck in the middle of everything. Its like they want Tatum/Brown to be the cornerstones of the roster, but havent really begun to build the roster around those two, it feels like Ainge is just trying to collect any kind of talent and hoping Stevens can make it work.

Or are people questioning the Tatum/Brown fit and think it would be best to flip one of them with the hope of a new star blood might get things clicking again in the right direction?

No, if it were up to me brown would be gone and harden would be here. Instead, harden is on the nets and we are little brother with no chance of beating them until they disband. This patience game is working out splendidly so far. Waiting around while other teams build real contenders is fun. I hope tatum agrees.

With younger teams, I usually side with the patience option. But with that said, ya I can see how watching Toronto make a big move to get Kawhi, even though it was only for 1 season, they did bring home the championship. Then ya watching Brooklyn put together that big 3.

Hard for me to say to keep going with the patience route when that is happening around you. Because ya a lot of things need to go right for this patience route to be worth it in the long haul. Tatum and Brown need to reach their ceilings, Ainge needs to also be able to build around them, and you need to hope that once the Nets team is done doing their thing, a new team just doesnt make a move to put together another star studded team.

[Feed Your Head]

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

Your asking this board if they expected their binky to continue to shoot mj god levels from mid range?

MJs shooting numbers are not god-tier in this era. They were in the 90s, but there's a ton of highly efficient shooters in the league now. It wasn't some Jaylen phenomenon. Of course MJ would probably shoot at way higher numbers in this era if he played in it too.

But even guys like Kawhi and Durant are way below where JB was shooting from midrange early in the season. Jaylen is at 54% from 16-3PT, after a huge correction. And he’s taking 12.8% of his shots from there, almost twice as high as his previous career high.

KD shoots 44% from that area for his career and has only had two seasons in the 50s. And he’s arguably the best midrange shooter ever lol.

Kawhi shoots 44.4% from that area for his career, and has only hit 50% once.

It was beyond unsustainable, and the people who said “well his points would only drop 1 or 2 ppg if he hit at a normal percentage” were being silly, because once shots like that stop falling, he becomes much easier to defend.

[MagicBagley18]

I havent been over here as much as I have in the past (still catching about 80% of Celtics games though). Curious what the feeling is with what direction this team needs to go roster construction wise.

Is everyone sold on Tatum/Brown as the top two guys? Like from here on out every roster move should be based around, "how does this player fit with Tatum/Brown"? Are people looking to keep those two and the rest of the roster is open to be moved?

Or more just of a, we need some small moves like an offensive microwave scorer specialist. Or a defensive big specialist?

Watching this team it feels like yall are kind of just stuck in the middle of everything. Its like they want Tatum/Brown to be the cornerstones of the roster, but havent really begun to build the roster around those two, it feels like Ainge is just trying to collect any kind of talent and hoping Stevens can make it work.

Or are people questioning the Tatum/Brown fit and think it would be best to flip one of them with the hope of a new star blood might get things clicking again in the right direction?

No, if it were up to me brown would be gone and harden would be here. Instead, harden is on the nets and we are little brother with no chance of beating them until they disband. This patience game is working out splendidly so far. Waiting around while other teams build real contenders is fun. I hope tatum agrees.

With younger teams, I usually side with the patience option. But with that said, ya I can see how watching Toronto make a big move to get Kawhi, even though it was only for 1 season, they did bring home the championship. Then ya watching Brooklyn put together that big 3.

Hard for me to say to keep going with the patience route when that is happening around you. Because ya a lot of things need to go right for this patience route to be worth it in the long haul. Tatum and Brown need to reach their ceilings, Ainge needs to also be able to build around them, and you need to hope that once the Nets team is done doing their thing, a new team just doesnt make a move to put together another star studded team.

All the while, while hoping your Tatum doesn’t become frustrated and we don’t waste browns extension year waiting on the nets. It’s a fine line. A countdown which started running now that we have both on contract extensions

[Celts17Pride]

We don't really have the ammo it seems. Huh.

Surprising considering how well the Celtics have drafted the last 2-3 years

[Asian Celtic]

Ainge won't do a bad deal and I'm not going to bash him for that. The trick is to find hidden value, as Ainge did with guys like Turner, Crowder and IT.

Hard to find hidden value when the board thinks like this. .

A) "Player puts on empty stats on a weak team."

B) "What has this player won so far"?

C) "He's old and does not fit the timeline."

D) "His salary won't help stay under the tax"

E) "He's just an awful player".


All these narratives always result in underrating other players while overrating ours.

But I trust Danny has way more knowledge than the board does so i'm not losing sleep over what the board thinks.

[Feed Your Head]

We don't really have the ammo it seems. Huh.

Surprising considering how well the Celtics have drafted the last 2-3 years

You’ve been posting at a god tier quality level lately, just wanted to let you know.

[Fierce1]

It's also not a coincidence that Jaylen was playing well when Smart was running the show and Kemba was out.

When the ball moves, Jaylen plays so much better.

It's when Jaylen tries to go 1 on 1 that he becomes inefficient.

[Feed Your Head]

Jaylen is easily the 2nd top guy on a championship team.

His play level dropped off when his knee got sore. Healthy he is a stud, unhealthy and he is unimproved on last season.

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

You saw something similar with Siakam last year with the Raptors. Started off super hot in his new role with more offensive responsibilities. That lasted 25 games or so. Then he went out for a few games and came back and was never the same. The timing of the injury was more coincidence than anything else. Around that time teams began to finally scout Siakam as more of an offensive threat. His normal basic moves were no longer enough to get consistent baskets in the half court.

Brown opened up crazy hot the first 18 games of the season averaging 27ppg on 62 TS%. The last 16 games though, 21ppg on 53 TS%.

How much is that the knee, how much of that is defenses finally adjusting to his new role, and him struggling to get consistent buckets against a defense that is focused more on him now?

I think it’s a combination of everything, but more than anything, was just course correction with his shooting. He was legitimately shooting 30% higher than Durants career numbers from 16-3PT through the first 10-15 games lol.

The knee slowed him down some for sure, but once he stopped hitting those shots that defenses were giving him at a GOAT clip, his offense became easier to defend, obviously.

I hate that it seems like I’m knocking him, but it’s really not the case. Jaylen is just getting judged on a higher curve now, this is the same type of scrutiny Tatum has dealt with the last year and a half. It’s part of the deal of being an all star. Tatum just gets more slack from me because well, he’s shown a lot more over a longer period of time. And he’s almost 2 nba seasons younger, he will be 23 almost all of next season, where Jaylen will be 25 by the time the season starts.

[GoCeltics123]

NBA trade season has been absolutely dead quiet this year.

I mean, outside of the Hamdiou Diallo-Svi I'm not even going to try to type out his last name trade. And that Harden guy

[Fierce1]

Even with Kyrie, the Celts were #5 in the league in assists per game.

In Kemba's first season with the Celts, the Celts were just 25th in assists per game.

This season the Celts are 27th in assists per game.

The ball movement is not good.

[Duke4life831]

The knee was a part of it obviously, but did anyone really expect him to continue being one of the deadliest mid range shooters ever? Over a 10-15 game sample? Once that percentage normalized, he became easier to defend, and he’s struggled to adjust. Part of that is he’s lacking a bit of explosion because of the knee, but a bigger part was correction from an unsustainable start shooting the ball.

It’s no different than Tatum’s percentage from 3 correcting, he wasn’t going to continue shooting 45% from deep in the volume he was taking, especially considering something like 67% of his threes are unassisted.

I’m not saying Jaylen can’t be the 2nd guy in a title team, I just think it’s more likely he will be a #3.

You saw something similar with Siakam last year with the Raptors. Started off super hot in his new role with more offensive responsibilities. That lasted 25 games or so. Then he went out for a few games and came back and was never the same. The timing of the injury was more coincidence than anything else. Around that time teams began to finally scout Siakam as more of an offensive threat. His normal basic moves were no longer enough to get consistent baskets in the half court.

Brown opened up crazy hot the first 18 games of the season averaging 27ppg on 62 TS%. The last 16 games though, 21ppg on 53 TS%.

How much is that the knee, how much of that is defenses finally adjusting to his new role, and him struggling to get consistent buckets against a defense that is focused more on him now?

I think it’s a combination of everything, but more than anything, was just course correction with his shooting. He was legitimately shooting 30% higher than Durants career numbers from 16-3PT through the first 10-15 games lol.

The knee slowed him down some for sure, but once he stopped hitting those shots that defenses were giving him at a GOAT clip, his offense became easier to defend, obviously.

I hate that it seems like I’m knocking him, but it’s really not the case. Jaylen is just getting judged on a higher curve now, this is the same type of scrutiny Tatum has dealt with the last year and a half. It’s part of the deal of being an all star. Tatum just gets more slack from me because well, he’s shown a lot more over a longer period of time. And he’s almost 2 nba seasons younger, he will be 23 almost all of next season, where Jaylen will be 25 by the time the season starts.

And to be clear, Im not using the Siakam comparison as a knock on him either. Siakam showed he could be the #3 guy (#2 in shots but was 3rd behind Kawhi and Lowry in that offense) on a championship team. Its just a really really hard jump to go from that level, to a guy that can consistently get his own against a set half court defense.

Im just not sure Brown is ever going to be that guy, where you can hand him the ball in the half court against a set defense and count on him getting a good look for himself or someone else. Now Brown being able to attack an already rotating defense, that is a hell of a player. But being the guy that can iniate the breakdown of a set defense is just a different kind of skill set.

Teams took away Siakam's spin move, once that happened he became much easier to defend in the half court. Brown's mid range jumper falls back down to his averages, he becomes much easier to defend in the half court.

[mrmorrill]

Im starting to talk myself into a Lonzo trade, assuming he's avbl.

If the Cs could manage to dump Kemba, and trade for Ball and Barnes... man. Ball/JB/JT/Barnes/Rob would be such a nice core to watch develop.

Is dumping Kemba the answer? I mean he’s looking better, I guess moving ball into a starting roll gives more movement but then you put a lot more on the jays shoulders for scoring.