Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[payitforward]

...stupid move though it would seem to be, it looks like Troy Brown will soon be an ex-Wizard. In which case once again we will have honored the time-tested Ernie Grunfeld tradition of wasting draft picks.

Well depends on what we get for him...

Yes, of course it does -- every player on every team should be available to be traded: it just depends on the deal. On what you get.

In this case -- & I hope I'm wrong about this! -- the scuttlebutt that the Wiz have been saying Troy is "extremely available" makes me think we don't much care what we get for him.

"Thunder trade Hamidou Diallo to Pistons for Svi Mykhailiuk"
That's a pretty interesting trade imo w
Two decent young players for each other.

It's a pretty decisive win for Detroit as far as I can tell.

[Ruzious]

Neto is a really good defender

Honestly, I don't know what you and nate are watching with Neto. He's at the bottom of NBA caliber athletes - he makes up for being under-sized by being slow, and even at 6'1, his arms are short. He has a decent 1st step. but by the time he's on his second step, he's lost that advantage. Once a player gets a step on him, he's done - no matter how crafty he is - he has no physical tools to do anything about it. His effort is definitely there, but his physical ability just isn't. And he's averaging 3.7 assists per 36 minutes - which is too low for an NBA PG. The Wiz signed him for $1.9 mi. I think that tells you something that probably nobody else thought he was worth more than that, or was it his dream to battle Ish Smith to try to be the Wiz 2nd string PG? He hustles his arse off and has the occasional good game, but he'd probably be best off playing in Europe. He has zero trade value, imo.

[nate33]

Neto is a really good defender

Honestly, I don't know what you and nate are watching with Neto. He's at the bottom of NBA caliber athletes - he makes up for being under-sized by being slow, and even at 6'1, his arms are short. Once a player gets a step on him, he's done - no matter how crafty he is - he has no physical tools to do anything about it. His effort is definitely there, but his physical ability just isn't. And he's averaging 3.7 assists per 36 minutes - which is too low for an NBA PG. The Wiz signed him for $1.9 mi. I think that tells you something that probably nobody else thought he was worth more than that, or was it his dream to battle Ish Smith to try to be the Wiz 2nd string PG? He hustles his arse off and has the occasional good game, but he'd probably be best off playing in Europe. He has zero trade value.

Yeah, he's short and short-armed, but he moves his feet well and has a strong, low center of gravity. He defends a lot like VanVleet. He is limited in that he can't switch onto bigs, but he is pretty good at the point of attack. He's also a 39% 3-point shooter who averages 2 steals per 36 and never turns the ball over.

[Ruzious]

Neto is a really good defender

Honestly, I don't know what you and nate are watching with Neto. He's at the bottom of NBA caliber athletes - he makes up for being under-sized by being slow, and even at 6'1, his arms are short. Once a player gets a step on him, he's done - no matter how crafty he is - he has no physical tools to do anything about it. His effort is definitely there, but his physical ability just isn't. And he's averaging 3.7 assists per 36 minutes - which is too low for an NBA PG. The Wiz signed him for $1.9 mi. I think that tells you something that probably nobody else thought he was worth more than that, or was it his dream to battle Ish Smith to try to be the Wiz 2nd string PG? He hustles his arse off and has the occasional good game, but he'd probably be best off playing in Europe. He has zero trade value.

Yeah, he's short and short-armed, but he moves his feet well and has a strong, low center of gravity. He defends a lot like VanVleet. He is limited in that he can't switch onto bigs, but he is pretty good at the point of attack. He's also a 39% 3-point shooter who averages 2 steals per 36 and never turns the ball over.

Van Vleet probably has 30 pounds on him - maybe more. They don't compare at all. Neto's a better shooter than Ish, but that's about it. He's not an efficient scorer. Stop making me talk bad about him. I like that he hustles and is a good teammate.

[dckingsfan]

Honestly, I don't know what you and nate are watching with Neto. He's at the bottom of NBA caliber athletes - he makes up for being under-sized by being slow, and even at 6'1, his arms are short. Once a player gets a step on him, he's done - no matter how crafty he is - he has no physical tools to do anything about it. His effort is definitely there, but his physical ability just isn't. And he's averaging 3.7 assists per 36 minutes - which is too low for an NBA PG. The Wiz signed him for $1.9 mi. I think that tells you something that probably nobody else thought he was worth more than that, or was it his dream to battle Ish Smith to try to be the Wiz 2nd string PG? He hustles his arse off and has the occasional good game, but he'd probably be best off playing in Europe. He has zero trade value.

Yeah, he's short and short-armed, but he moves his feet well and has a strong, low center of gravity. He defends a lot like VanVleet. He is limited in that he can't switch onto bigs, but he is pretty good at the point of attack. He's also a 39% 3-point shooter who averages 2 steals per 36 and never turns the ball over.

Van Vleet probably has 30 pounds on him - maybe more. They don't compare at all. Neto's a better shooter than Ish, but that's about it. He's not an efficient scorer. Stop making me talk bad about him. I like that he hustles and is a good teammate.

What is most amazing about this is we talk about 3PG lineups, the first two being Ish and Neto effectively moving Westbrook to SF and Beal to PF

[likwitdesi]

There are plenty of minutes available for Troy Brown. But at a certain point this becomes a senseless discussion.

likwitdesi "knows" that Troy Brown shouldn't play, because he "knows" that Troy Brown is a bad player. How he "knows" these things is anyone's guess, but obviously it can't be based on Troy's play last year.

In any case, stupid move though it would seem to be, it looks like Troy Brown will soon be an ex-Wizard. In which case once again we will have honored the time-tested Ernie Grunfeld tradition of wasting draft picks.

When you have nothing, you resort to personal attacks, which is exactly what you have done here.

Last year was last year. Troy has sucked this year and you haven't bothered trying to defend his play because you can't. He had first dibs on being a part of the rotation but fell out of it due to his poor play and has been replaced by guys playing better basketball. What he has going for him is he can handle the ball well, has some size and rebounds well for his size. Besides that, I can't think of much else.

He was also Ernie's pick, not Tommy's. He also has one option year left on his deal. It's not like he's Rui with 2 years left or Deni with 3 years left.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Yeah, he's short and short-armed, but he moves his feet well and has a strong, low center of gravity. He defends a lot like VanVleet. He is limited in that he can't switch onto bigs, but he is pretty good at the point of attack. He's also a 39% 3-point shooter who averages 2 steals per 36 and never turns the ball over.

Van Vleet probably has 30 pounds on him - maybe more. They don't compare at all. Neto's a better shooter than Ish, but that's about it. He's not an efficient scorer. Stop making me talk bad about him. I like that he hustles and is a good teammate.

What is most amazing about this is we talk about 3PG lineups, the first two being Ish and Neto effectively moving Westbrook to SF and Beal to PF

Yeah, I like Westbrook as a three and D guy except he can’t shoot and doesn’t defend.

[NatP4]

Specifically mentions Richaun Holmes:

Read on Twitter

[gambitx777]

I just think he will cost too much .

Specifically mentions Richaun Holmes:

Read on Twitter

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[gambitx777]

Whiteside and ramsey for kings
For troy brown jr

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

...Neto's a better shooter than Ish, but that's about it. He's not an efficient scorer.... he hustles and is a good teammate.

This year & on his career as well, Neto is about an average-efficiency scorer -- but on a bit below average usage. Overall, however, he is having his best year. The biggest factor driving those numbers, however, is he isn't turning the ball over & he's way better than average in steals.

As to Ish, his shooting has been incomprehensibly bad. The guy is 40% from the line this year! But... the rest of his numbers have been absolutely great overall: look for yourself.

[payitforward]

There are plenty of minutes available for Troy Brown. But at a certain point this becomes a senseless discussion.

likwitdesi "knows" that Troy Brown shouldn't play, because he "knows" that Troy Brown is a bad player. How he "knows" these things is anyone's guess, but obviously it can't be based on Troy's play last year.

In any case, stupid move though it would seem to be, it looks like Troy Brown will soon be an ex-Wizard. In which case once again we will have honored the time-tested Ernie Grunfeld tradition of wasting draft picks.

When you have nothing, you resort to personal attacks, which is exactly what you have done here....

I'm not sure what you read as a personal attack -- but whatever it is, that's not how I intended it. So, I'm happy to apologize.

...Last year was last year. Troy has sucked this year and you haven't bothered trying to defend his play because you can't....

Fair enough -- he's been very bad.

...He had first dibs on being a part of the rotation but fell out of it due to his poor play and has been replaced by guys playing better basketball. What he has going for him is he can handle the ball well, has some size and rebounds well for his size. Besides that, I can't think of much else.

He was also Ernie's pick, not Tommy's. He also has one option year left on his deal. It's not like he's Rui with 2 years left or Deni with 3 years left.

These are all reasonable points. Nothing to disagree with.

OTOH, he is 21 years old. His having played very well last year combined with being so young makes me optimistic about his future.

But, really, my problem is not that we would trade him -- for the right deal, every player should be tradable.

My problem was with Mayo's tweet saying that the Wizards had let everyone know that he was "extremely available," which seemed to suggest that we'd take just about anything in return for him. That struck me as right in the Ernie tradition.

Hey, who knows? The deadline may pass with Troy still a Wizard. As to how he turns out in the league, we'll get to see.

[payitforward]

Whiteside and ramsey for kings
For troy brown jr

Ramsey seems like a talented kid. Why do you want Whiteside?

[gambitx777]

To then turn around and trade Mo or Robin.. I like the bagley trade ideas too but that's assuming they can't get more for him else where and don't want too much for him.

I think brown for a useful center in Whiteside and a young talent in ramsey is a pretty damn good deal.

Whiteside and ramsey for kings
For troy brown jr

Ramsey seems like a talented kid. Why do you want Whiteside?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

As to Ish, his shooting has been incomprehensibly bad. The guy is 40% from the line this year! But... the rest of his numbers have been absolutely great overall: look for yourself.

Yeah, I really like everything I see from Ish, except that the ball doesn't actually go through the basket when he shoots.

[payitforward]

How an NBA player can be 40% from the line I just don't understand.

[likwitdesi]

There are plenty of minutes available for Troy Brown. But at a certain point this becomes a senseless discussion.

likwitdesi "knows" that Troy Brown shouldn't play, because he "knows" that Troy Brown is a bad player. How he "knows" these things is anyone's guess, but obviously it can't be based on Troy's play last year.

In any case, stupid move though it would seem to be, it looks like Troy Brown will soon be an ex-Wizard. In which case once again we will have honored the time-tested Ernie Grunfeld tradition of wasting draft picks.

When you have nothing, you resort to personal attacks, which is exactly what you have done here....

I'm not sure what you read as a personal attack -- but whatever it is, that's not how I intended it. So, I'm happy to apologize.

...Last year was last year. Troy has sucked this year and you haven't bothered trying to defend his play because you can't....

Fair enough -- he's been very bad.

...He had first dibs on being a part of the rotation but fell out of it due to his poor play and has been replaced by guys playing better basketball. What he has going for him is he can handle the ball well, has some size and rebounds well for his size. Besides that, I can't think of much else.

He was also Ernie's pick, not Tommy's. He also has one option year left on his deal. It's not like he's Rui with 2 years left or Deni with 3 years left.

These are all reasonable points. Nothing to disagree with.

OTOH, he is 21 years old. His having played very well last year combined with being so young makes me optimistic about his future.

But, really, my problem is not that we would trade him -- for the right deal, every player should be tradable.

My problem was with Mayo's tweet saying that the Wizards had let everyone know that he was "extremely available," which seemed to suggest that we'd take just about anything in return for him. That struck me as right in the Ernie tradition.

Hey, who knows? The deadline may pass with Troy still a Wizard. As to how he turns out in the league, we'll get to see.

Honestly, given he is blocked here, hopefully the organization does do him a favor and trade him somewhere he can get minutes as a PG or point forward and work on his game. Also he is due $5M next season - given Ted is cheap and luxury tax sensitive, I'd rather they use those $ elsewhere assuming they get an expiring contract in return

[The Consiglieri]

A lot of relief with the losses to this point post all star break. It was really important to not build a winning streak that could lead to some stupid decisions before the deadline. Looking at the schedule last week I projected 1-6 to 3-4 before the deadline, and w/that 0-3 start, getting hopeful we can avoid some catastrophic win now stupidity. I know "losing" is a good thing angle isn't gonna sit well with a lot of people, but if I can't get Beal dealt at the deadline we can at least hopefully avoid some stupid win now, impress upon Beal we are willing to sell out the future to make him happy stupidity, and w/each loss, those kind of idiotic deals seem less likely. Fingers crossed we go 1-6 or worse out of the break. We can't trust the chuckleheads in charge, we need the luck that losses bring that force sanity upon them.

[pcbothwel]

Agreed. Whether its Masai or still Tommy, we need assets and flexibility this summer to make any jump next year (Along with a new coach). It seems the only way to do this is gather top 40 draft pick(s) and reduce Salary to sign FA (Using Full MLE).
Trading Bertans (And maybe Brown) seems to be the best way to move forward.

[payitforward]

...Hey, who knows? The deadline may pass with Troy still a Wizard. As to how he turns out in the league, we'll get to see.

Honestly, given he is blocked here, hopefully the organization does do him a favor and trade him somewhere he can get minutes as a PG or point forward and work on his game. Also he is due $5M next season - given Ted is cheap and luxury tax sensitive, I'd rather they use those $ elsewhere assuming they get an expiring contract in return

Here's my problem with that idea: it means that in 3 years you have turned the #15 pick in the draft into nothing at all.

Just prior to that, the Wizards turned their 2017 R1 pick into nothing at all
Just prior to that, the Wizards turned their 2016 R1 pick (a lottery pick) into nothing at all (actually less than nothing: we had to give a R2 pick to get rid of Kieff).
Just prior to that, the Wizards turned their 2015 draft pick (plus 2 R2 picks) into "an expiring salary" -- i.e. nothing at all.

If you liked any of those deals in any way, if you thought trading Oubre for Ariza was a good idea, if you thought the trade for Bojan Bogdanovic was pretty good, if your opinion was that it was not a bad idea to trade for Markieff Morris....

...if any of those seemed like it was sensible, then you have a basis on which to look at the current "plan" (if there is one -- hasn't happened yet!) to move Troy Brown for "an expiring contract in return," & recognize "this is more of the same stuff that got us where we are today!"

Now, if you disagree, fine; show me where I'm wrong. But, unless you can, I see no other way to look at this.