"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[Fierce1]

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

Stats really don't tell the whole story.

[Celts17Pride]

I wonder if we were to rank the most likely to least likely Celtics trade targets, where would they be? Before we all get our hopes crushed when Ainge likely does nothing lol

IMO my list:

Ellington
Nance Jr.
Barnes
Gordon
Collins
Lonzo
Drummond

My list is

No trade - Most likely
H Barnes - Next likely
J Grant - Least likely

That’s it. Hope I am wrong

[Feed Your Head]

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

Stats really don't tell the whole story.

Jaylen holds the ball for 6+ seconds on only 11% of his scoring possessions. He dribbles 7+ times on 8.5% of them.

Ingram holds the ball for 6+ seconds on 29% of his scoring possessions. Ingram dribbles 7+ times on 19% of them as well. Stats do tell the whole story when it comes to this.

When it comes to posting, quality>quantity.

[Fierce1]

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

If you combine both then that would be Tatum and Jaylen unassisted on 58.5% of their baskets.

Ingram and Zion will only be 49% unassisted on their baskets.

Celts duo will still be higher.

But the eye test will tell you Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

The ball movement gets killed if one player keeps dribbling the ball.
Celts have 3 players who do that on a regular basis.

[Duke4life831]

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

Stats really don't tell the whole story.

They have stats for this stuff.

Jaylen Brown:
Time per possession: 2.7 seconds
Average seconds per touch: 2.9 seconds
Average dribbles per touch: 2.3

Brandon Ingram:
Time per possession: 3.9 seconds
Average seconds per touch: 3.8 seconds
Average dribbles per touch: 2.7

The thing is, both Ingram and Brown touch the ball very little (Brown especially) for perimeter scorers. Now if you were to combine these stats for Tatum/Brown vs Ingram/Zion for the season, Tatum/Brown touch the ball more. But that is mainly because it wasnt up until late January is when the Pels started using Zion more on the ball. Again its clear as day watching that team that the path theyre going is Zion/Ingram run the offense and the offense runs through them.

[SMTBSI]

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

If you combine both then that would be Tatum and Jaylen unassisted on 58.5% of their baskets.

Ingram and Zion will only be 49% unassisted on their baskets.

Just a heads up, but you can't really average them that way. You have to adjust for usage. If the two players on each teams have made different numbers of field goals, their respective percentages will have different weights.

Now in this case it happens that Zion and Ingram, and Tatum and Brown, are close enough together in makes that it probably won't affect the numbers much. But just something to keep in mind in the future. This kind of case you cannot do a simple average like that.

This was not a basketball comment, just a math comment.

[Feed Your Head]

But the eye test will tell you Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

The eye test lies.

[Fierce1]

Jaylen holds the ball for 6+ seconds on only 11% of his scoring possessions. He dribbles 7+ times on 8.5% of them.

Ingram holds the ball for 6+ seconds on 29% of his scoring possessions. Ingram dribbles 7+ times on 19% of them as well.

Stats do tell the whole story when it comes to this. When it comes to posting, quality>quantity.

That's just one half of the equation.

What about Tatum's 67% to Zion's 42%?

Jaylen's 50% is close to Ingram's 56%.

In the end the duo of Tatum and Jaylen still do a lot more iso than the Pelican duo.

[Feed Your Head]

Jaylen holds the ball for 6+ seconds on only 11% of his scoring possessions. He dribbles 7+ times on 8.5% of them.

Ingram holds the ball for 6+ seconds on 29% of his scoring possessions. Ingram dribbles 7+ times on 19% of them as well.

Stats do tell the whole story when it comes to this. When it comes to posting, quality>quantity.

That's just one half of the equation.

What about Tatum's 67% to Zion's 42%?

Jaylen's 50% is close to Ingram's 56%.

In the end the duo of Tatum and Jaylen still do a lot more iso than the Pelican duo.

You said Jaylen does much more dribbling and ISO than Ingram. If you can’t admit you are wrong, nobody will take you seriously as a poster.

But the eye test will tell you Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

The eye test lies.

Yeah, it's subjective.

I think Jaylen is still a better player than Ingram.
But Ingram is just more polished.

What does this have anything to do with how much they dribble or go ISO? You could have added that into any of your other posts man lol.

[Fierce1]

But the eye test will tell you Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

The eye test lies.

Yeah, it's subjective.

I think Jaylen is still a better player than Ingram.
But Ingram is just more polished.

[Duke4life831]

Jaylen holds the ball for 6+ seconds on only 11% of his scoring possessions. He dribbles 7+ times on 8.5% of them.

Ingram holds the ball for 6+ seconds on 29% of his scoring possessions. Ingram dribbles 7+ times on 19% of them as well.

Stats do tell the whole story when it comes to this. When it comes to posting, quality>quantity.

That's just one half of the equation.

What about Tatum's 67% to Zion's 42%?

Jaylen's 50% is close to Ingram's 56%.

In the end the duo of Tatum and Jaylen still do a lot more iso than the Pelican duo.

If you combine Tatum's and Jaylen's ISO frequency, youre looking at 26% of the time (18.7 for Tatum and 7.5 for Brown). Compare that to the Pels where if you were to combine them, it would be 23% of the time. This is not even factoring in the big uptick for Zion in this category over the last month and half (it was hovering around 4% prior, 10% now).

But lets say we forget all the numbers and say its close between both duos when it comes to how much they have the ball. Youre still proving the point that the Pels would have no interest or need for Kemba. Because if the Celtics duo have the ball too much which makes Kemba a bad fit with them, even if the Pels duo is just slightly behind them in amount of touches, that would then make Kemba a bad fit for the Pels duo.

[Fierce1]

You said Jaylen does much more dribbling and ISO than Ingram. If you can’t admit you are wrong, nobody will take you seriously as a poster.

I'm not going to dispute your stats.
But I still believe the stats don't tell the whole story.

A compromise would be I'll give you the Jaylen vs. Ingram comparison and I get the Tatum vs. Zion comparison.

In the end the Jays still do more iso than the Pelican duo.

[Fierce1]

If you combine Tatum's and Jaylen's ISO frequency, youre looking at 26% of the time (18.7 for Tatum and 7.5 for Brown). Compare that to the Pels where if you were to combine them, it would be 23% of the time. This is not even factoring in the big uptick for Zion in this category over the last month and half (it was hovering around 4% prior).

But lets say we forget all the numbers and say its close between both duos when it comes to how much they have the ball. Youre still proving the point that the Pels would have no interest or need for Kemba. Because if the Celtics duo have the ball too much which makes Kemba a bad fit with them, even if the Pels duo is just slightly behind them in amount of touches, that would then make Kemba a bad fit for the Pels duo.

Like I said, the Celts just move on if that's the case.

I'm just throwing out a trade idea.

But I like your idea of Kemba going to a 3rd team.

[fallguy]

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

Jaylen does a lot more dribbling than Ingram.

Stats really don't tell the whole story.

Jaylen holds the ball for 6+ seconds on only 11% of his scoring possessions. He dribbles 7+ times on 8.5% of them.

Ingram holds the ball for 6+ seconds on 29% of his scoring possessions. Ingram dribbles 7+ times on 19% of them as well. Stats do tell the whole story when it comes to this.

When it comes to posting, quality>quantity.

I tip my cap to you, sir.

[Fierce1]

What does this have anything to do with how much they dribble or go ISO? You could have added that into any of your other posts man lol.

We have to factor in dribbling and the shot clock winding down.

If Jaylen keeps dribbling when the shot clock is about to expire, he will be forced to shoot a forced shot.

That's what I mean about the eye test.

There are times where Jaylen keeps dribbling when he should just pass the ball because there was really nowhere to go.

That's the area where Ingram is better.
Ingram is more polished on offense.

[Feed Your Head]

[Fierce1]

All I'm saying is if the Pels are afraid of Lonzo's impending free-agency, maybe there's a chance the Pels would take Kemba and 1st rounders.

But if the Pels plan on keeping Lonzo long term then Kemba to the Pelicans will not happen.

There's really a chance another team will give Lonzo an offer sheet worth 20-25m per year.

Are the Pels ready for that scenario?

That's something to think about.

[Duke4life831]

All I'm saying is if the Pels are afraid of Lonzo's impending free-agency, maybe there's a chance the Pels would take Kemba and 1st rounders.

But if the Pels plan on keeping Lonzo long term then Kemba to the Pelicans will not happen.

There's really a chance another team will give Lonzo an offer sheet worth 20-25m per year.

Are the Pels ready for that scenario?

That's something to think about.

But again if the Pels dont want to be stuck paying Lonzo who is a great fit 20-25 mil per year. Why would Kemba who is a horrible fit on 36 and 37 mil for the two seasons after this one a better scenario?

[Fierce1]

All I'm saying is if the Pels are afraid of Lonzo's impending free-agency, maybe there's a chance the Pels would take Kemba and 1st rounders.

But if the Pels plan on keeping Lonzo long term then Kemba to the Pelicans will not happen.

There's really a chance another team will give Lonzo an offer sheet worth 20-25m per year.

Are the Pels ready for that scenario?

That's something to think about.

But again if the Pels dont want to be stuck paying Lonzo who is a great fit 20-25 mil per year. Why would Kemba who is a horrible fit on 36 and 37 mil for the two seasons after this one a better scenario?

Because Kemba only has 2 years left.

If you add Bledsoe's 18.1m next season and Lonzo's potential 80-100m new contract, the Pels would save money in the long run.

And again, if the Pels are willing to pay Lonzo 20-25m per year, Kemba to the Pels will never happen.

[MagicBagley18]

Well we’ve really gotten ourselves into quite the pissing match here huh fellas! I knew bringing up Jaylen brown would get us through this Saturday night here in the sub forum