Cavs 2020-21 season

[Stillwater]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

Its fairly obvious dg has to be the guy making pg numbers of passes within the flow of the offense to be a nba level player and has to take and make a minimum of 4 triples a half to make up for what he gives up on defense if hes a starter. Sexton is more than capable of doing what dg currently is doing at the 1 its not now some dual responsibility for failure.

I'm all for Garland learning to trust his shot and evolving in to a high volume 3pt shooter, but I think his defense can be better than average for a PG as he continues to gain experience/strength.

Collin may be disadvantaged being asked to guard SGs, but even that begs the question whether he's actually better guarding quicker/smaller players than slower/taller players when Okoro is generally defending the hardest opposing wing.

man I dont understand the logic you are using here...Sexton isnt exclusively guarding anyone anymore than DG is ...the problem with any undersized guard on defense is the inability to be effective on switches which good offenses easily force them both into, hell the commitment they had or have in DG and Sexton together is the exact reason why they prioritized the defender in Okoro. However I am not sure I agree that DG as good as he may be getting to his spots will effectively disrupt anyone outside of other small guards whereas Sexton has enough lateral speed and strength to at least be able to keep in the game if he had a good defender in the back court with him...I think DG would demand an elite defender at 3 positions in a 7 game series to not be the focus of any playoff exploiting game plan good luck with that

[JonFromVA]

IMO, the benchmark for a viable combo guard with high-usage is to average around 6 apg with at least a 2:1 turnover ratio. Garland is just reaching that mark in his second season, while Collin is still climbing towards it.

Given time, Collin may very well get there, while perhaps Garland can approach the sort of numbers you'd like to see from a true PG (8+ apg and 3:1 turnover ratio); but as for right now ... neither player should be left to run a team by themselves.

As a team, the Cavs are 24th in assists and 30th in turnovers, so, what we desperately need is better ball protection and creation from both of them. That path starts with better floor spacing and reliable rotations, but only starts.

I just want to point out that not even CJ McCollum reaches your "viable combo guard with high-usage" standards. For his career he's averaging 3.2 apg with 1.7 topg and a 26.1 USG%.

CJ is playing next to Lillard, though. He's not being asked to be the primary play-maker. He did raise his assists and lowered his turnovers in the past two seasons, though and still Portland is dead last in the league in assists this season.

The good news for them (not us) is that they're 2nd best in turnovers.

I suppose it depends to some extent what stylistically you want from your team. An iso-heavy/low-assist/low-turnover offense can certainly work.

But what we're doing now won't work, and our future (if this group has one together) is contingent on development and improvement by our young players.

[JonFromVA]

Its fairly obvious dg has to be the guy making pg numbers of passes within the flow of the offense to be a nba level player and has to take and make a minimum of 4 triples a half to make up for what he gives up on defense if hes a starter. Sexton is more than capable of doing what dg currently is doing at the 1 its not now some dual responsibility for failure.

I'm all for Garland learning to trust his shot and evolving in to a high volume 3pt shooter, but I think his defense can be better than average for a PG as he continues to gain experience/strength.

Collin may be disadvantaged being asked to guard SGs, but even that begs the question whether he's actually better guarding quicker/smaller players than slower/taller players when Okoro is generally defending the hardest opposing wing.

man I dont understand the logic you are using here...Sexton isnt exclusively guarding anyone anymore than DG is ...the problem with any undersized guard on defense is the inability to be effective on switches which good offenses easily force them both into, hell the commitment they had or have in DG and Sexton together is the exact reason why they prioritized the defender in Okoro. However I am not sure I agree that DG as good as he may be getting to his spots will effectively disrupt anyone outside of other small guards whereas Sexton has enough lateral speed and strength to at least be able to keep in the game if he had a good defender in the back court with him...I think DG would demand an elite defender at 3 positions in a 7 game series to not be the focus of any playoff exploiting game plan good luck with that

We run a defense that doesn't require switching, it happens sometimes and I'm encouraged by the times Darius stands his ground, gets a steal, or draws a foul more than I'm discouraged by the times he gets bulldozed because adding strength will help there.

But context matters ... there are only a few starting PG's who defend opposing PG's well. It's primarily an offensive position, so, becoming above average at defending PG's is not an especially high bar. Awareness and effort should get the job done.

I'll gladly worry about everything else you mentioned when we lose a 7-game playoff due to Garland's defense.

[Stillwater]

I'm all for Garland learning to trust his shot and evolving in to a high volume 3pt shooter, but I think his defense can be better than average for a PG as he continues to gain experience/strength.

Collin may be disadvantaged being asked to guard SGs, but even that begs the question whether he's actually better guarding quicker/smaller players than slower/taller players when Okoro is generally defending the hardest opposing wing.

man I dont understand the logic you are using here...Sexton isnt exclusively guarding anyone anymore than DG is ...the problem with any undersized guard on defense is the inability to be effective on switches which good offenses easily force them both into, hell the commitment they had or have in DG and Sexton together is the exact reason why they prioritized the defender in Okoro. However I am not sure I agree that DG as good as he may be getting to his spots will effectively disrupt anyone outside of other small guards whereas Sexton has enough lateral speed and strength to at least be able to keep in the game if he had a good defender in the back court with him...I think DG would demand an elite defender at 3 positions in a 7 game series to not be the focus of any playoff exploiting game plan good luck with that

We run a defense that doesn't require switching, it happens sometimes and I'm encouraged by the times Darius stands his ground, gets a steal, or draws a foul more than I'm discouraged by the times he gets bulldozed because adding strength will help there.

But context matters ... there are only a few starting PG's who defend opposing PG's well. It's primarily an offensive position, so, becoming above average at defending PG's is not an especially high bar. Awareness and effort should get the job done.

I'll gladly worry about everything else you mentioned when we lose a 7-game playoff due to Garland's defense.

thats insane thinking to say we run a defense that doesnt "require" switching...I think what you mean is we run a defense that doesnt work because it cannot have any success by switching with DG out there and you are ok with it lol got it.

[jbk1234]

man I dont understand the logic you are using here...Sexton isnt exclusively guarding anyone anymore than DG is ...the problem with any undersized guard on defense is the inability to be effective on switches which good offenses easily force them both into, hell the commitment they had or have in DG and Sexton together is the exact reason why they prioritized the defender in Okoro. However I am not sure I agree that DG as good as he may be getting to his spots will effectively disrupt anyone outside of other small guards whereas Sexton has enough lateral speed and strength to at least be able to keep in the game if he had a good defender in the back court with him...I think DG would demand an elite defender at 3 positions in a 7 game series to not be the focus of any playoff exploiting game plan good luck with that

We run a defense that doesn't require switching, it happens sometimes and I'm encouraged by the times Darius stands his ground, gets a steal, or draws a foul more than I'm discouraged by the times he gets bulldozed because adding strength will help there.

But context matters ... there are only a few starting PG's who defend opposing PG's well. It's primarily an offensive position, so, becoming above average at defending PG's is not an especially high bar. Awareness and effort should get the job done.

I'll gladly worry about everything else you mentioned when we lose a 7-game playoff due to Garland's defense.

thats insane thinking to say we run a defense that doesnt "require" switching...I think what you mean is we run a defense that doesnt work because it cannot have any success by switching with DG out there and you are ok with it lol got it.

There really isn't any statistical evidence to support the idea that Sexton, in his third season, is better defensively than Garland, who is only in his second season.

[JonFromVA]

man I dont understand the logic you are using here...Sexton isnt exclusively guarding anyone anymore than DG is ...the problem with any undersized guard on defense is the inability to be effective on switches which good offenses easily force them both into, hell the commitment they had or have in DG and Sexton together is the exact reason why they prioritized the defender in Okoro. However I am not sure I agree that DG as good as he may be getting to his spots will effectively disrupt anyone outside of other small guards whereas Sexton has enough lateral speed and strength to at least be able to keep in the game if he had a good defender in the back court with him...I think DG would demand an elite defender at 3 positions in a 7 game series to not be the focus of any playoff exploiting game plan good luck with that

We run a defense that doesn't require switching, it happens sometimes and I'm encouraged by the times Darius stands his ground, gets a steal, or draws a foul more than I'm discouraged by the times he gets bulldozed because adding strength will help there.

But context matters ... there are only a few starting PG's who defend opposing PG's well. It's primarily an offensive position, so, becoming above average at defending PG's is not an especially high bar. Awareness and effort should get the job done.

I'll gladly worry about everything else you mentioned when we lose a 7-game playoff due to Garland's defense.

thats insane thinking to say we run a defense that doesnt "require" switching...I think what you mean is we run a defense that doesnt work because it cannot have any success by switching with DG out there and you are ok with it lol got it.

Stillwater, you're the last person on RealGM who should be questioning somebody else's sanity...

[Stillwater]

We run a defense that doesn't require switching, it happens sometimes and I'm encouraged by the times Darius stands his ground, gets a steal, or draws a foul more than I'm discouraged by the times he gets bulldozed because adding strength will help there.

But context matters ... there are only a few starting PG's who defend opposing PG's well. It's primarily an offensive position, so, becoming above average at defending PG's is not an especially high bar. Awareness and effort should get the job done.

I'll gladly worry about everything else you mentioned when we lose a 7-game playoff due to Garland's defense.

thats insane thinking to say we run a defense that doesnt "require" switching...I think what you mean is we run a defense that doesnt work because it cannot have any success by switching with DG out there and you are ok with it lol got it.

Stillwater, you're the last person on RealGM who should be questioning somebody else's sanity...

Given your so called sane takes are usually the lame party line pr laden stinky cheese sandwiches served up at a fish cleaning station with a side of crusty spam ...yeah I can see why you think my Sexton is better takes are insane
The fact that nobody is saying DG is a good defender besides you and JBK is about the only take you have had of late that isnt irrational love of a player who hasnt lived up to the hype that also disagrees with the front offices take of supporting its own for some unknown reason other than trade purposes as if they think they can speak DG into being a good player

[JonFromVA]

thats insane thinking to say we run a defense that doesnt "require" switching...I think what you mean is we run a defense that doesnt work because it cannot have any success by switching with DG out there and you are ok with it lol got it.

Stillwater, you're the last person on RealGM who should be questioning somebody else's sanity...

Given your so called sane takes are usually the lame party line pr laden stinky cheese sandwiches served up at a fish cleaning station with a side of crusty spam ...yeah I can see why you think my Sexton is better takes are insane
The fact that nobody is saying DG is a good defender besides you and JBK is about the only take you have had of late that isnt irrational love of a player who hasnt lived up to the hype that also disagrees with the front offices take of supporting its own for some unknown reason other than trade purposes as if they think they can speak DG into being a good player

Case in point?

I didn't say Garland was a good defender, I said he could become above average for his position.

[jbk1234]

Stillwater, you're the last person on RealGM who should be questioning somebody else's sanity...

Given your so called sane takes are usually the lame party line pr laden stinky cheese sandwiches served up at a fish cleaning station with a side of crusty spam ...yeah I can see why you think my Sexton is better takes are insane
The fact that nobody is saying DG is a good defender besides you and JBK is about the only take you have had of late that isnt irrational love of a player who hasnt lived up to the hype that also disagrees with the front offices take of supporting its own for some unknown reason other than trade purposes as if they think they can speak DG into being a good player

Case in point?

I didn't say Garland was a good defender, I said he could become above average for his position.

I didn't either. Just leave it.

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[Stillwater]

Stillwater, you're the last person on RealGM who should be questioning somebody else's sanity...

Given your so called sane takes are usually the lame party line pr laden stinky cheese sandwiches served up at a fish cleaning station with a side of crusty spam ...yeah I can see why you think my Sexton is better takes are insane
The fact that nobody is saying DG is a good defender besides you and JBK is about the only take you have had of late that isnt irrational love of a player who hasnt lived up to the hype that also disagrees with the front offices take of supporting its own for some unknown reason other than trade purposes as if they think they can speak DG into being a good player

Case in point?

I didn't say Garland was a good defender, I said he could become above average for his position.

sure you didnt but thats what you insinuated and you know thisssss maaaannnn

[JonFromVA]

Given your so called sane takes are usually the lame party line pr laden stinky cheese sandwiches served up at a fish cleaning station with a side of crusty spam ...yeah I can see why you think my Sexton is better takes are insane
The fact that nobody is saying DG is a good defender besides you and JBK is about the only take you have had of late that isnt irrational love of a player who hasnt lived up to the hype that also disagrees with the front offices take of supporting its own for some unknown reason other than trade purposes as if they think they can speak DG into being a good player

Case in point?

I didn't say Garland was a good defender, I said he could become above average for his position.

sure you didnt but thats what you insinuated and you know thisssss maaaannnn

Again, case in point. You make things up then fly off the handle over it.

[Stillwater]

Case in point?

I didn't say Garland was a good defender, I said he could become above average for his position.

sure you didnt but thats what you insinuated and you know thisssss maaaannnn

Again, case in point. You make things up then fly off the handle over it.

I make nothing up... its called an observation as opposed to someone like you that seems to be more interested
in echoing the sentiments of this front office as if that somehow makes you connected to reality.
The truth is a lot of sht goes on that nobody wants to accept but it does.

[JonFromVA]

sure you didnt but thats what you insinuated and you know thisssss maaaannnn

Again, case in point. You make things up then fly off the handle over it.

I make nothing up... its called an observation as opposed to someone like you that seems to be more interested
in echoing the sentiments of this front office as if that somehow makes you connected to reality.
The truth is a lot of sht goes on that nobody wants to accept but it does.

And yet another case in point .... making BS up and drawing BS conclusions.

[jbk1234]

sure you didnt but thats what you insinuated and you know thisssss maaaannnn

Again, case in point. You make things up then fly off the handle over it.

I make nothing up... its called an observation as opposed to someone like you that seems to be more interested
in echoing the sentiments of this front office as if that somehow makes you connected to reality.
The truth is a lot of sht goes on that nobody wants to accept but it does.

This is enough Stillwater. If you can't have a debate without making it this personal, maybe you should take a break for a bit.

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[Stillwater]

Again, case in point. You make things up then fly off the handle over it.

I make nothing up... its called an observation as opposed to someone like you that seems to be more interested
in echoing the sentiments of this front office as if that somehow makes you connected to reality.
The truth is a lot of sht goes on that nobody wants to accept but it does.

This is enough Stillwater. If you can't have a debate without making it this personal, maybe you should take a break for a bit.

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he called me a liar so Id say it works both ways

[jbk1234]

I make nothing up... its called an observation as opposed to someone like you that seems to be more interested
in echoing the sentiments of this front office as if that somehow makes you connected to reality.
The truth is a lot of sht goes on that nobody wants to accept but it does.

This is enough Stillwater. If you can't have a debate without making it this personal, maybe you should take a break for a bit.

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he called me a liar so Id say it works both ways

The dialogue on this board would be greatly improved if you responded to what people actually write instead of what you think they meant.

At this point, the important thing for you to take away from this is I'm about done. I don't like suspending people during Covid because this is one of the few outlets some people have. That doesn't mean it's okay for you to take out your frustrations on your fellow posters. It also doesn't mean I don't have my limits when people are blowing by warnings.

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[Harper4Ferry?]

how long is Love out for again? don't see the update today.

[jbk1234]

how long is Love out for again? don't see the update today.

It's inderteminant. But he really needs to get another MRI and see a specialist at this point.

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[Harper4Ferry?]

how long is Love out for again? don't see the update today.

It's inderteminant. But he really needs to get another MRI and see a specialist at this point.

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Ok, they should probably just cut his leg off at this point.

[jbk1234]

how long is Love out for again? don't see the update today.

It's inderteminant. But he really needs to get another MRI and see a specialist at this point.

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Ok, they should probably just cut his leg off at this point.

All kidding aside, if he's going to need surgery or something, maybe go ahead and just get it. But this is one heck of a calf strain if that's all it is.

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