Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him?

[Spree2Houston]

Lonzo would open up Obi’s game as well

[Buttah304]

Maybe they are just young, like the Knicks, but what's the deal with NO? Zion, Ingram, and Ball (assuming we all say he's good enough we'd want). Wouldn't you expect them to be better, at least in the standings?

(In fairness, I think it's an off year for everyone and standings are not what you'd expect for many teams)

They're terrible defensively, a large part is cause Zion can't guard anyone, but national media doesn't say a word about it.

I cannot stress this enough. Zion and Ingram have hands down the worst chemistry between two “stars” in the NBA. They are two individuals playing their own game not making each-other better. Watch some of their games and I promise you it will become clear as day. They also have no identity.

And like you said - Zion is an atrocious defender. Not bad or very bad. He’s ghastly.

[Buttah304]

Rich man's Elfrid Payton. He's a point guard that will never, ever get fouled and get to the line. If he is a PnR initiator nobody respects his off the dribble 3 enough to care and they just sag and go under. Good $6 million a year bench guard who can defend and maybe get out on the break with a unit that can run. His spot up 3 ball is at least league average now and so I think he can cancel his flight to China.

Calling him a rich mans Payton is one of the worst player comparisons that I have ever seen. They literally play nothing alike.

Sag and go under a guy who shot 47% from 3PT over 16 games in February on 8.5 attempts?

Are you watching cricket?

[HarthorneWingo]

Rich man's Elfrid Payton. He's a point guard that will never, ever get fouled and get to the line. If he is a PnR initiator nobody respects his off the dribble 3 enough to care and they just sag and go under. Good $6 million a year bench guard who can defend and maybe get out on the break with a unit that can run. His spot up 3 ball is at least league average now and so I think he can cancel his flight to China.

Calling him a rich mans Payton is one of the worst player comparisons that I have ever seen. They literally play nothing alike.

Sag and go under a guy who shot 47% from 3PT over 16 games in February on 8.5 attempts?

Are you watching cricket?

What are you giving up for him?

[Buttah304]

Rich man's Elfrid Payton. He's a point guard that will never, ever get fouled and get to the line. If he is a PnR initiator nobody respects his off the dribble 3 enough to care and they just sag and go under. Good $6 million a year bench guard who can defend and maybe get out on the break with a unit that can run. His spot up 3 ball is at least league average now and so I think he can cancel his flight to China.

Calling him a rich mans Payton is one of the worst player comparisons that I have ever seen. They literally play nothing alike.

Sag and go under a guy who shot 47% from 3PT over 16 games in February on 8.5 attempts?

Are you watching cricket?

What are you giving up for him?

Dallas 23

[HarthorneWingo]

Calling him a rich mans Payton is one of the worst player comparisons that I have ever seen. They literally play nothing alike.

Sag and go under a guy who shot 47% from 3PT over 16 games in February on 8.5 attempts?

Are you watching cricket?

What are you giving up for him?

Dallas 23

Would you consider adding a 2nd, Knox, or Obi if demanded?

[WargamesX]

What are you giving up for him?

Dallas 23

Would you consider adding a 2nd, Knox, or Obi if demanded?

I would on all of that but I would hesitate on Obi. He’s better served as draft night trade bait. I also think we pay less if we sign and trade for Ball.

[WargamesX]

Maybe they are just young, like the Knicks, but what's the deal with NO? Zion, Ingram, and Ball (assuming we all say he's good enough we'd want). Wouldn't you expect them to be better, at least in the standings?

(In fairness, I think it's an off year for everyone and standings are not what you'd expect for many teams)

They're terrible defensively, a large part is cause Zion can't guard anyone, but national media doesn't say a word about it.

I cannot stress this enough. Zion and Ingram have hands down the worst chemistry between two “stars” in the NBA. They are two individuals playing their own game not making each-other better. Watch some of their games and I promise you it will become clear as day. They also have no identity.

And like you said - Zion is an atrocious defender. Not bad or very bad. He’s ghastly.

Griffin really made a bad team, and this is exactly why I thought we would have a chance at Ingram.

Also Zion main issue is that he is short. He’s a 6’7 wrecking ball PF but defensively that doesn’t work

Griffin has made a mess of those guys, letting Jrue go for picks was smart’ish (taking back Bledsoe wasn’t) but Steven Adams as a center is bad. They got two pieces that operate best in transition, Ingram who could operate independently of that, and in theory had Reddick for the half court, so he uses their space/assets to trade for a old school half court center?

If he is smart (which is questionable) he’ll try to get a shooter this offseason and maybe chase Lowry/Conley if the price is good.

Their team is just badly made together

[Synciere]

As long as he keeps shooting well he’s worth a big offer in free agency from us. His defense has always been good. I’d made an offer pre deadline just to have matching rights honestly.

[prophet_of_rage]

They're terrible defensively, a large part is cause Zion can't guard anyone, but national media doesn't say a word about it.

I cannot stress this enough. Zion and Ingram have hands down the worst chemistry between two “stars” in the NBA. They are two individuals playing their own game not making each-other better. Watch some of their games and I promise you it will become clear as day. They also have no identity.

And like you said - Zion is an atrocious defender. Not bad or very bad. He’s ghastly.

Griffin really made a bad team, and this is exactly why I thought we would have a chance at Ingram.

Also Zion main issue is that he is short. He’s a 6’7 wrecking ball PF but defensively that doesn’t work

Griffin has made a mess of those guys, letting Jrue go for picks was smart’ish (taking back Bledsoe wasn’t) but Steven Adams as a center is bad. They got two pieces that operate best in transition, Ingram who could operate independently of that, and in theory had Reddick for the half court, so he uses their space/assets to trade for a old school half court center?

If he is smart (which is questionable) he’ll try to get a shooter this offseason and maybe chase Lowry/Conley if the price is good.

Their team is just badly made together

They need Steven Adams to protect the rim. Zion can't really do it at the NBA level. They need a different guard from Eric Bledsoe. And they need bench depth.

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[Gorilla Monsoon]

I like Lonzo. Always did. But I'm afraid Lavar would cause serious trouble in NY. That's my only hesitation, aside from the price tag.

Just as it goes for Lowry- if the Pelicans are asking for too much in a trade (Quick, RJ and Mitch are all off the table for either PG), then I'd rather wait til the summer and try to make an offer the Pels won't match.

I just hope the Knicks can find a way to replace Payton before the trade deadline. We need either a facilitator or shooter at PG if not both. Unfortunately Payton is neither.

[nedleeds]

Rich man's Elfrid Payton. He's a point guard that will never, ever get fouled and get to the line. If he is a PnR initiator nobody respects his off the dribble 3 enough to care and they just sag and go under. Good $6 million a year bench guard who can defend and maybe get out on the break with a unit that can run. His spot up 3 ball is at least league average now and so I think he can cancel his flight to China.

Calling him a rich mans Payton is one of the worst player comparisons that I have ever seen. They literally play nothing alike.

Sag and go under a guy who shot 47% from 3PT over 16 games in February on 8.5 attempts?

Are you watching cricket?

I'm watching a dude who shoots only spot up 3's. He can't dribble and take a 3. So a pick and roll at least in basketball, not cricket, requires dribbling Lonzo can't and doesn't shoot any 3's off the dribble ala any threatening modern point guard (Harden, Dame, Kemba, Walker, even IQ who plays for the foul off the high pnr). Actually, he can't really dribble at all, which is why he can't get to the basket despite his spot up % being pretty good this year.

Do you all know they actually track this stuff now? With computers.

[K_ick_God]

He has a lot of bad shooting games. I don’t like the fit.

[dakomish23]

13th in the NBA with 103 3 pointers made.

Closest Knick is Randle at 70.

[aggo]

we do need a PG

but more than needing a PG,

we need a player that can score as we have one of the worst offenses in the league at PG/SG/SF.


On that balance, I dont think Lonzo is the right player.


A guy like Lavine would add a ton more wins to this specific team than Lonzo IMO.


Rose/IQ
Lavine/IQ
RJ/Burks

== dream spot for the knicks IMO.

[JCS]

Most people still see Lonzo as a PG, but today he's much more of a really good 3&D wing, who happens to have excellent court vision.

He has the size, he hits 3s on high volume shooting, is clearly a plus defender, and does not need the ball in his hands all the time to have a positive impact.

Plugging him with RJ, Randle, and Quickley who all love to create offense with the ball as well makes a ton of sense in my opinion.

Btw he will get at least 20M/year offers this summer in restricted free agency. I still like it and wouldn't mind the Knicks being the team overpaying a bit for him, I think he'd be such a massive improvement over Payton and he fits the timeline. Still think the Pels will match though

[MadGrinch]

“ if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

I seriously wonder why people believe acquiring Lonzo is a good idea, I don't see how he has more value for the Knicks than Frank Ntilikina.

If you want Lonzo to come in and run the offense i'd say yes he does that better than Frank , but New Orleans doesn't even want that , they started the season with Bledsoe running point but eventually running things through Ingram and Zion as much as the guards and have gone from 17th(last season) to 7th in offensive efficiency in the process.

the Knicks aren't going to take the point forward duties from Julius to give to Lonzo for the same reasons they took the ball from Elfrid , he's not a good enough scorer to leverage the defense into doubling and giving up easier shots.

So now he's instead of the next Jason Kidd , he's the next Kirk Hinrich , which is a good player , but not worth near 20 mil. a season, so why pay him based on skills that won't be used because in all honesty because the idea of Lonzo running point and the actual practice of Lonzo running point are 2 very different things.

and Lonzo will likely get paid about 10 more million a season than Frank to be a 3 and D guy who can at times play point guard. A role I'm not sure Lonzo is better at , Frank is the better defender , and shoots a higher % from 3 on much lower attempts .but when you add in their likely paychecks , its an easy decision.

[robillionaire]

Is there any indication that the pelicans actually want to trade him

[TheGreenArrow]

What are you giving up for him?

Dallas 23

Would you consider adding a 2nd, Knox, or Obi if demanded?

I’d do Dallas pick a 2023 2nd rd pick and knox or frank!!!

[Huey Freeman]

Btw he will get at least 20M/year offers this summer in restricted free agency. I still like it and wouldn't mind the Knicks being the team overpaying a bit for him, I think he'd be such a massive improvement over Payton and he fits the timeline. Still think the Pels will match though

Which team this summer has $20MM in cap space to sign Lonzo that actually really needs him?
I need to check the list but NOLA has a lot of cap room and should keep him, Kira isn't ready. They need to trade Bledsoe.

SAS = I don't see Pop doing it, and IMO they don't really need him.
CLE = They don't need him.
MEM= They don't need him.
DAL = They don't need him. I think he would be a bad fit with Luka.
MIA = Maybe. I'm not sure what Pat Riley is looking for but I guess he fits the mold of a defender that moves the ball.
CHI = Maybe. How is Coby White playing this season?
CHA = IMO they don't really need him besides the great media coverage the Ball brothers would attract. $20MM is steep when they need a big man first and foremost.
OKC = They have Shai and I don't know if they want to use $20MM adding a guard that takes the ball out of his hands.
HOU = They don't need him.They're already paying John Wall.
NYK = we actually could use Lonzo more than the other teams.

All in all, I guess NOLA can S&T him which opens up other teams but that is risky to depend on especially when the trade deadline is approaching and you can possibly get a pick AND a young player in hand now. DAL '23 pick + Kev should be enough, and NYK can S&T him as well...if need be.

NOLA may just let the market dictate Lonzo's worth. Lonzo may not get the offers he's looking for and NOLA may match whatever he gets unless he implores them not to.