"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[ddb]

now hearing the John Collins interest from Boston is very real. I asked why when considering that Collins has already turned down so much money....Here's the reasoning I got.

#1- Ainge can keep the large Hayward TPE for offseason which is ideal
#2- Celts feel like if he comes here, does well, and likes it that he would be more receptive to taking a reasonable extension.
#3- They like his game and fit with the J's
#4- If they cannot come to agreement with him beyond this year they can work out a S&T

So basically for Boston this is all going to come down to what Atlanta wants back in return and if it's reasonable.

Any mention of Rondo coming back in the deal?

nope. Rondo gets paid way too much next season to be a back up. Plus with age, etc. not gonna happen

[ILC]

now hearing the John Collins interest from Boston is very real. I asked why when considering that Collins has already turned down so much money....Here's the reasoning I got.

#1- Ainge can keep the large Hayward TPE for offseason which is ideal
#2- Celts feel like if he comes here, does well, and likes it that he would be more receptive to taking a reasonable extension.
#3- They like his game and fit with the J's
#4- If they cannot come to agreement with him beyond this year they can work out a S&T

So basically for Boston this is all going to come down to what Atlanta wants back in return and if it's reasonable.

In the beginning of the offseason, danny said he's looking for a big, who can play both the 4 and the 5 (which is why he went after millsap) so it makes sense.

But the S&T math doesnt work with Kemba on the roster. To execute a sign & trade, they need to stay under the hard cap which is essentially impossible with Kemba on the roster next year.

Ainge also specifically mentioned not going after guys who are entering free agency - singled these guys out. Sure, I don’t believe everything or much ainge says publicly and I’d bet the interest is real but I don’t see it happening

He mentioned that along the lines of someone being a rental. We don't want incoming FAs because we can lose them when bad teams have a lot of cap space. Collins is RFA so Celtics still have all the control.

[gocelts]

Smart vs Williams?

Smart. He's just battle tested. He can realistically start on a championship team.

I like what Williams is doing, but as a full time starter, I still see some holes in his game that I don't think can be fixed. Putting on more muscle to bang with the "big" bigs may limit that superior athleticism. He'll never be a stretch big with a 3 point jumper. The same criticism of him disappearing at times as a rookie still holds true a little today. Smart never disappears. ..AND I LIKE WILLIAMS, I just think Smart is someone you win championships with.

[zoyathedestroya]

But the S&T math doesnt work with Kemba on the roster. To execute a sign & trade, they need to stay under the hard cap which is essentially impossible with Kemba on the roster next year.

Does the team sending the player out get hard-capped? I thought it was just the team receiving the player. In this scenario we'd have Collins and S&T him elsewhere if we can't agree on terms, right?

Both teams who do the s&T get hard capped I thought. We were technically hard capped last year after the Rozier Kemba S&T

A team is hard-capped only when they're the recipient of the S&T'd player. Kemba was an S&T even though we didn't have to do it that way.

[MagicBagley18]

In the beginning of the offseason, danny said he's looking for a big, who can play both the 4 and the 5 (which is why he went after millsap) so it makes sense.

But the S&T math doesnt work with Kemba on the roster. To execute a sign & trade, they need to stay under the hard cap which is essentially impossible with Kemba on the roster next year.

Ainge also specifically mentioned not going after guys who are entering free agency - singled these guys out. Sure, I don’t believe everything or much ainge says publicly and I’d bet the interest is real but I don’t see it happening

He mentioned that along the lines of someone being a rental. We don't want incoming FAs because we can lose them when bad teams have a lot of cap space. Collins is RFA so Celtics still have all the control.

But he also mentioned it in regards to way more teams having money than there are good players which means good players are going to be over paid which goes in direct contradiction to ddb saying they think they can get him on a reasonable contract extension

[ddb]

If Smart is going, then I won’t be happy. My silver lining will be the fact that I will be able to buy a Smart jersey on sale.

If I’m the Hawks, I’m asking for Timelord, a pick, and Smart.

I think even Atlanta knows that isn't happening. no way in hell. I do not see Smart or Timelord being traded. It would be between Nesmith & Langford and I'm sure the sticky point is Atlanta wants a first and Ainge is probably trying to sell them on 2 2nds or Grant

If a first and Nesmith or Langford is enough to get the job done, you don’t let Schlenk off the phone before he changes his mind. You call the league office immediately for a trade call while you text Langford or Nesmith with your other phone to thank them for their time in Boston.

Unfortunately we also need to remember that Danny and staff know and see Langford & Nesmith much more then we do. Plus they are invested in those kids. I think Ainge probably values them as prospects much more then we do. I could actually see Ainge turn down Nesmith or Langford & a 1st for Collins. sounds crazy now but in 2 years we could look back and be like "glad Danny didn't do that deal for Collins". just saying in case Ainge doesn't pull the trigger. for me I would deal 1 of those kids in a deal BECAUSE we have two similar projects. different style players, but similar prospects if that makes sense

[Fencer reregistered]

Okay you nerds.

Smart or Timelord.

If you could only keep one.

I reject that premise.

[BK_2020]

Langford and Nesmith, if they pan out, fill two needed gaps: a large ballhandler who can breakdown defenses and a knock-down shooter. Collins doesn't fill any need unless we have a desperate need for a tiny no-D lob-catcher with a subpar 3 point shot who complains publicly about touches.

[ILC]

now hearing the John Collins interest from Boston is very real. I asked why when considering that Collins has already turned down so much money....Here's the reasoning I got.

#1- Ainge can keep the large Hayward TPE for offseason which is ideal
#2- Celts feel like if he comes here, does well, and likes it that he would be more receptive to taking a reasonable extension.
#3- They like his game and fit with the J's
#4- If they cannot come to agreement with him beyond this year they can work out a S&T

So basically for Boston this is all going to come down to what Atlanta wants back in return and if it's reasonable.

Any mention of Rondo coming back in the deal?

nope. Rondo gets paid way too much next season to be a back up. Plus with age, etc. not gonna happen

There has to be someone coming back to match the salaries. Even if it's Theis, Nesmith, Pritchard going there, but especially Smart they have to send back 7m or so and I doubt they're giving Snell who's important for them with all wing injuries. They have Rondo and Snell from expendable salaries.

[djFan71]

Does the team sending the player out get hard-capped? I thought it was just the team receiving the player. In this scenario we'd have Collins and S&T him elsewhere if we can't agree on terms, right?

Both teams who do the s&T get hard capped I thought. We were technically hard capped last year after the Rozier Kemba S&T

A team is hard-capped only when they're the recipient of the S&T'd player. Kemba was an S&T even though we didn't have to do it that way.

[Bad-Thoma]

now hearing the John Collins interest from Boston is very real. I asked why when considering that Collins has already turned down so much money....Here's the reasoning I got.

#1- Ainge can keep the large Hayward TPE for offseason which is ideal
#2- Celts feel like if he comes here, does well, and likes it that he would be more receptive to taking a reasonable extension.
#3- They like his game and fit with the J's
#4- If they cannot come to agreement with him beyond this year they can work out a S&T

So basically for Boston this is all going to come down to what Atlanta wants back in return and if it's reasonable.

And what exactly are we giving up for this rental? What would ATL think would be reasonable here?

Nesmith or Langford, Grant, 2 2nds.

Sign me up, sheeeeeeeeeeeeit that'd be a great deal for the C's.

[MagicBagley18]

If ainge passes down langford amd nesmith plus a 1st for Collins then I’ll slap him personally and I’m not even high on Collins

[ILC]

Yeah that is not happening. If that was enough to get him he'd be traded long time ago.

Guys like George Hill are going to be traded for 2 2nds, Collins is not leaving without a 1st, young player and at least someone on the level of Theis to help somewhat replace his production. They want to make the playoffs

[MagicBagley18]

Dude there’s no way Collins value is grant Langford and 2 2nds come on fellas

[zoyathedestroya]

Both teams who do the s&T get hard capped I thought. We were technically hard capped last year after the Rozier Kemba S&T

A team is hard-capped only when they're the recipient of the S&T'd player. Kemba was an S&T even though we didn't have to do it that way.

Take out "cap stuff" and that meme is perfect.

Also, you don't meme me. I meme you. But since you're a mod, I will allow it.

[MagicBagley18]

Imagine ainge pulls off Collins for grant Langford 2 2nds we’d be dancing in the street

[jeremym480]

ddb is right, the interest in Collins is VERY real.

Doesn’t mean they will get him, but they badly want to pair him with the Jays.

This post feels... informed.

Call it semi-informed. It’s why yesterday I told
GoCelts123 that he shouldn’t be so quick to rule out the Collins thing.

Do not hold me to it lol, just passing it along that they are interested in him. Not exactly breaking news, he’s a great fit with the Jays.

SEMI-informed

[GoGreen]

Smart vs Williams?

Smart. He's just battle tested. He can realistically start on a championship team.

I like what Williams is doing, but as a full time starter, I still see some holes in his game that I don't think can be fixed. Putting on more muscle to bang with the "big" bigs may limit that superior athleticism. He'll never be a stretch big with a 3 point jumper. The same criticism of him disappearing at times as a rookie still holds true a little today. Smart never disappears. ..AND I LIKE WILLIAMS, I just think Smart is someone you win championships with.

I'd really hate to give up either Smart or Rob. I guess I'd have to go Rob, but that feels like a lot (considering he could be our future starting center) for someone we're not even sure will re-sign here. We'll see...

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Imagine ainge pulls off Collins for grant Langford 2 2nds we’d be dancing in the street

If it were to happen, GB would be like “Wow, I can’t believe Ainge gave up Langford and Williams, plus 2 2nd rounders for a rental!! Langford is a future HOFer! Bad trade!!”

[yeleven11]

Dude there’s no way Collins value is grant Langford and 2 2nds come on fellas

I think you guys are really underrating the cap/contract part of this. Guys who are about to hit RFA in a market filled with teams with a lot of cash to spend dont have that much value. Also, young guys still on rookie contracts are considered valuable. I know the thought here among a lot of people is that Langford and Nesmith have no value around the league because we haven't seen them do anything yet, but I think executives dont see it that way with all these young guys, especially if they liked them in the draft.