Rui Hachimura

[NatP4]

It’s such a positionless games nowadays that it really doesn’t matter what we (or the team) call or label Rui.

Last night against the Bucks you could argue that he played 3 positions (PF,SF,C) all about the same amount of minutes.

Obviously, it doesn’t matter what anyone labels Rui or any other player.

Personnel groupings/lineup decisions do matter though. Rui does not give you typical PF production or skillset. You have to make up the lost rebounds and rim protection somewhere(you aren’t making it up with 3 guard lineups and Wagner/Lopez/Len at the C position).

[NatP4]

I agree with that, Nate(even though all of those players impact the game defensively and block far more shots and protect the rim much better than Rui, and half of them average more than 8 rebounds per36).

The NBA is ball handlers, wings, and bigs. The wizards lack in couple areas:

1. No C that can rebound at average-above average rate or protect the rim

2. Coach that refuses to play numerous wing players, chooses to overplay ball handlers.

It’s simple, and I know you will disagree with this, but you would much rather have year 2 Bonga(and the player Avdija is going to become) than Rui.

[doclinkin]

It’s such a positionless games nowadays that it really doesn’t matter what we (or the team) call or label Rui.

Last night against the Bucks you could argue that he played 3 positions (PF,SF,C) all about the same amount of minutes.

Obviously, it doesn’t matter what anyone labels Rui or any other player.

Personnel groupings/lineup decisions do matter though. Rui does not give you typical PF production or skillset. You have to make up the lost rebounds and rim protection somewhere(you aren’t making it up with 3 guard lineups and Wagner/Lopez/Len at the C position).

Some of Rui's reduced boarding may be a Westbrook effect. I haven't looked recently but when I did I noticed that the teams Westbrook has played on do not tend to have a higher rebounding% than their opponents. In other words for all that the may average a triple double, he is taking those boards from teammates as much as he is from opposing players.

(In fact the years when OKC significantly outboarded the opponent, the difference maker was on the offensive boards, which tended to be a result of Stephen Adams being a superior offensive boardsman, and of Russ chucking up many many misses).

Rui is playing a face up game far from the basket, Westbrook crashes the paint hunting loose boards, it does not surprise me at all that Rui's rebounding numbers have taken a dip.

[DCZards]

It’s simple, and I know you will disagree with this, but you would much rather have year 2 Bonga(and the player Avdija is going to become) than Rui.

I disagree with that. Rui is showing that he has the chops to someday be an above average defender. Yes, he needs to improve offensively…like continuing to display the 3pt shooting and offensive confidence and aggressiveness that we’ve seen the past couple of games.

Rui will likely never rebound like a traditional PF but if he’s able to get that average up to around 7.5-7.8 per 36 he’ll be fine. Rui is currently at 7.0 rebs per 36 for his career. At 7.5 per 36 he’ll be right there with top PFs like Pascal Siakam and Tobias Harris.

I’ve been a leading advocate for Bonga but I’m beginning to question his ability to be anything but an 8th or 9th man. And it’s not just about his lack of PT. When Bonga has been given an opportunity he hasn’t done a whole lot with it. Rui’s size, strength and offensive versatility makes him a much better prospect than Bonga, imo.

I think Deni will be a very good NBA player. His playmaking skills and IQ will help ensure that. However, Deni lacks Rui’s athleticism and defensive versatility.

Rui at 18 pts and 7 rebs per 36…and playing above average D and shooting 36% plus from 3 is realistic and a win for the Zards. Let’s hope he gets there.

[nate33]

It’s simple, and I know you will disagree with this, but you would much rather have year 2 Bonga(and the player Avdija is going to become) than Rui.

I disagree with that. Rui is showing that he has the chops to someday be an above average defender. Yes, he needs to improve offensively…like continuing to display the 3pt shooting and offensive confidence and aggressiveness that we’ve seen the past couple of games.

Rui will likely never rebound like a traditional PF but if he’s able to get that average up to around 7.5-7.8 per 36 he’ll be fine. Rui is currently at 7.0 rebs per 36 for his career. At 7.5 per 36 he’ll be right there with top PFs like Pascal Siakam and Tobias Harris.

I’ve been a leading advocate for Bonga but I’m beginning to question his ability to be anything but an 8th or 9th man. And it’s not just about his lack of PT. When Bonga has been given an opportunity he hasn’t done a whole lot with it. Rui’s size, strength and offensive versatility makes him a much better prospect than Bonga, imo.

I think Deni will be a very good NBA player. His playmaking skills and IQ will help ensure that. However, Deni lacks Rui’s athleticism and defensive versatility.

Rui at 18 pts and 7 rebs per 36…and playing above average D and shooting 36% plus from 3 is realistic and a win for the Zards. Let’s hope he gets there.

I agree with DCZards' disagreement.

Bonga had some nice on/off numbers last year, but that's because he played on a flukey team with absolutely horrific defense at every other position, while also having plenty of offense at every other position. It was a team uniquely suited to adding an extremely low-usage wing with above-average defense.

The current team doesn't have that luxury. We now play centers who are bad offensive players with no perimeter shot, and we play a PG that isn't a threat from the perimeter, allowing teams to pack the lane. Putting another zero offense starter on the court would be a disaster.

I also think that Rui is now as good or even better defensively than Bonga. Bonga was extremely foul prone.

[NatP4]

Of course it depends on the amount of 3pt attempts, but yeah that would be great.

But right now at 23 years old he’s a 16&6 on 56% TS and below average defense(no, he is not a better defender than Bonga, that is an obnoxious and false take) Bonga gave us 10&6 on 61% TS with elite defense last year as a 20 year old. Right now, Deni rebounds and defends better than Rui.

It’s ball handlers, wings, and bigs. Rui is either a well below average big, or an average to slightly below average wing.

[Ruzious]

It’s simple, and I know you will disagree with this, but you would much rather have year 2 Bonga(and the player Avdija is going to become) than Rui.

I disagree with that. Rui is showing that he has the chops to someday be an above average defender. Yes, he needs to improve offensively…like continuing to display the 3pt shooting and offensive confidence and aggressiveness that we’ve seen the past couple of games.

Rui will likely never rebound like a traditional PF but if he’s able to get that average up to around 7.5-7.8 per 36 he’ll be fine. Rui is currently at 7.0 rebs per 36 for his career. At 7.5 per 36 he’ll be right there with top PFs like Pascal Siakam and Tobias Harris.

I’ve been a leading advocate for Bonga but I’m beginning to question his ability to be anything but an 8th or 9th man. And it’s not just about his lack of PT. When Bonga has been given an opportunity he hasn’t done a whole lot with it. Rui’s size, strength and offensive versatility makes him a much better prospect than Bonga, imo.

I think Deni will be a very good NBA player. His playmaking skills and IQ will help ensure that. However, Deni lacks Rui’s athleticism and defensive versatility.

Rui at 18 pts and 7 rebs per 36…and playing above average D and shooting 36% plus from 3 is realistic and a win for the Zards. Let’s hope he gets there.

Deni's still going to fill out some and has the same ability to move his feet laterally. I'd like to see him get in deeper crouches on defense - it seems like he's too upright a lot of the time. Seems clear that neither of them will ever be shot-blockers, but they both can become solid defenders. One thing Rui has fallen off this season is offensive rebounding. His defensive rebounding is almost exactly the same as last season. it'd be nice to see him get some put-backs - like he and Bryant did last season.

[NatP4]

The wizards defensive rating is 20 points better per 100 possessions with Bonga on the court vs Rui. I’m sure that is also a fluke though.

It continues to blow my mind. People project Rui like he’s some 19 year old rookie. He played 3 full seasons at Gonzaga and 2400 NBA minutes. He’s 23 years old. This is what he is. He won’t magically morph into an elite defensive player, or a rim protector, or a rebounding machine. He might steadily improve his scoring efficiency and become a 16-18 point 60% TS player.

[nate33]

Of course it depends on the amount of 3pt attempts, but yeah that would be great.

But right now at 23 years old he’s a 16&6 on 56% TS and below average defense(no, he is not a better defender than Bonga, that is an obnoxious and false take) Bonga gave us 10&6 on 61% TS with elite defense last year as a 20 year old. Right now, Deni rebounds and defends better than Rui.

It’s ball handlers, wings, and bigs. Rui is either a well below average big, or an average to slightly below average wing.

Bonga did not provide "elite" defense. He provided above-average defense, which just seemed like elite because he was playing alongside Isaiah Thomas, Thomas Bryant, a rookie Hachimura, and a defensively disengaged Bradley Beal.

And his high TS% was because he had essentially the lowest usage rate in the league. It's not hard to post a high TS% when the only time you shoot is a dunk on a fast break or a wide open 3 from the corner. He was someone the defense didn't even have to account for. It didn't hurt so much last year because we had so much outside shooting that using Bonga's man to pack the paint didn't hurt as much. This year, it would be a disaster.

[nate33]

The wizards defensive rating is 20 points better per 100 possessions with Bonga on the court vs Rui. I’m sure that is also a fluke though.

You read way too much into on/off numbers on small sample sizes without accounting for teammates. Believe it or not, Scott Brooks, an ex NBA player and a veteran coach, might actually know something about basketball. That doesn't make him infallible, but you should at least consider for a moment that he has some rationale for doing what he is doing. He sees these guys every day in practice. He is playing Hachimura over Bonga for a reason.

[NatP4]

The wizards defensive rating is 20 points better per 100 possessions with Bonga on the court vs Rui. I’m sure that is also a fluke though.

You read way too much into on/off numbers on small sample sizes without accounting for teammates. Believe it or not, Scott Brooks, an ex NBA player and a veteran coach, might actually know something about basketball. That doesn't make him infallible, but you should at least consider for a moment that he has some rationale for doing what he is doing. He sees these guys every day in practice. He is playing Hachimura over Bonga for a reason.

Yes, because Hachimura was the 9th overall pick in the draft.

Interesting choice of hill to die on, Scott Brooks&Rui Hachimura.

[nate33]

The wizards defensive rating is 20 points better per 100 possessions with Bonga on the court vs Rui. I’m sure that is also a fluke though.

You read way too much into on/off numbers on small sample sizes without accounting for teammates. Believe it or not, Scott Brooks, an ex NBA player and a veteran coach, might actually know something about basketball. That doesn't make him infallible, but you should at least consider for a moment that he has some rationale for doing what he is doing. He sees these guys every day in practice. He is playing Hachimura over Bonga for a reason.

Yes, because Hachimura was the 9th overall pick in the draft.

Interesting choice of hill to die on, Scott Brooks&Rui Hachimura.

I don't think you will find many people willing to die on the hill of Isaac Bonga either. The guy has a PER of 4.6.

[nate33]

There's also the issue of how best to develop them. Bonga has a pretty good feel for the game, but he has terrible technical skills and fundamentals. He can get better by working alone in a gym at shooting, footwork, and handling the ball.

Rui is the opposite. His technical skills are quite good, he just lacks a great feel for the game. He'll improve the most by getting minutes.

[smoothSeph]

He’s a SF not a PF.

I don't get it, is this a bad thing?

No. The team just thinks he’s a PF for whatever reason.

I’m pretty sure a lot of guys in the organization were talking about him being an SF this off-season.

I have no problem with starting 2 SFs, but obviously that means we’d have to do some work on the C position.

[NatP4]

I don't get it, is this a bad thing?

No. The team just thinks he’s a PF for whatever reason.

I’m pretty sure a lot of guys in the organization were talking about him being an SF this off-season.

I have no problem with starting 2 SFs, but obviously that means we’d have to do some work on the C position.

Agreed.

[dckingsfan]

Comparing Rui to Bonga on D and seeing that Bonga is better doesn't make Bonga all-world. It just shows that Rui has a very long way to go. That isn't hating on Rui - it just is where he is at right now.

[DCZards]

Comparing Rui to Bonga on D and seeing that Bonga is better doesn't make Bonga all-world. It just shows that Rui has a very long way to go. That isn't hating on Rui - it just is where he is at right now.

It’s not being a hater to believe that Bonga is a better defender than Rui...but it’s wrong to ignore (or deny) the tremendous strides that Hachimura has made—and continues to make—as a defender.

[prime1time]

Watch on YouTube

Rui just continues to improve and improve. It's funny how coming off his two best games of his career posters insist on focusing on his supposed weaknesses instead of having an honest conversation about how much he's improved. For example, Rui's cutting and passing in this game is just impressive. He didn't show his passing skill much at Gonzaga, but every now and then when playing for Japan he'd make a pass that made me go "ooh." At 4:31 Rui matches up with Holiday. He locks him up, forces him into a tough layup, grabs the rebound, leads the transition, then finds Advija for an easy dunk. That play in so many ways shows you the growth of Rui. At Gonzaga he was a flat out bad defender of smaller guards. Now he's way better. I remember watching Rui play for team Japan and he would lead a fastbreak have wide open players, and just barrell to the hoop. The fact that he slowed down, surveyed the court and made the right decision getting the ball to Advija, just shows so much growth. Perhaps, more than anything it shows how the game is slowing down for him.

People insist and insist on talking about how bad his defense is. But you'll notice a consistent trend. They will never talk about specifics. How many players in the league are making the play Rui does at 3:27? How about the play at 4:17? People who criticize Rui's defense hide behind vague season-based stats that can not. The only defensive statistic I'd really trust is if there was a NBA equivalent of PFF grades. Where someone who understands what the defense is trying to do, what the offense is trying to do and what each defensive player's responsibility is to watch each play and gives a grade. As far as Bonga goes, he's DOA on all these plays. If we put Bonga on Giannis, he'd blow through him like wind through a pile of leaves.

You can tell a lot about a poster when all they want to talk about with young players is how good they are in the present, and now how they are growing. The growth in Rui's game this season has been is immense. Not all scoring is equal. It's been fascinating to see his mind adapt to the NBA game. Up until this season Rui was allowed to just do whatever he wanted to do offensively with the focus being on scoring. Now with Westbrook and Beal being such high usage players he has to adapt. No longer can he just do. He has to find a way to fit what Beal and Westbrook do. So now we see Rui cutting way more frequently. We also see Rui shooting way more 3's. Why because that's the shot teams are giving him. And while he didn't complete the pass, I LOVE the play at 2:!5.

It's sad how much this thread has descended into whether or not Rui is a good player right now. Like that even matters. With young players the most important aspect of the game is growth. And right now Rui's showing it in spades. When the Wizards drafted him, this what they envisioned. It's funny how the goalposts move for a player.

: So, let’s start with the shot. Hachimura has always seemed a lot more comfortable to me shooting off the dribble as opposed to shooting directly off the catch because his shot doesn’t have a ton of arc. He tends to play very upright, and when he takes jumpers off the dribble, his favored move is to get to his step-back (particularly to the left). Taking that step back allows him to get some natural leg bend, and it helps him with the arc and the touch of his shot. I pulled some shots of Hachimura below from over the last year. Every jumper has a story, particularly while it’s still developing. I’ve grabbed some from early in the college season, mid-season, then the NCAA Tournament. Then, after, I added a bunch of the jumpers he’s taken in Vegas so far.

What you’re seeing in Las Vegas is a lot of the same problems you saw at Gonzaga. Ultimately, concerns about Hachimura’s jumper come down to two factors: the inconsistent hitch that he occasionally gets at the top, and his balance. Let’s start with the latter first, because I think it’s the biggest problem but also think it’s more fixable. I’m a firm believer that a jumper starts with shot preparation, balance, and footwork. With Hachimura, you there’s a real lack of consistency there, and it affects the rest of the process. In part, it’s that lack of bend mentioned above. Too often, he doesn’t engage his lower half enough to get power on his shot, which means it’s all coming from his arms. I think that’s why you sometimes see the hitch at the top. Sometimes, he needs the split-second load to get a bit more power on the shot to get it to the basket. In my opinion, you can see this best when he doesn’t get perfect balance, particularly on that step-back. When he’s leaning back, or just slightly off from wrong-footing the jumper, he’ll often leave the ball short on the front of the rim. But when he takes a really solid hop-step into the action, the shot looks smooth and fluid. When he’s balanced, has some time and gets some bend from his knees, the hitch irons itself out a bit and it looks much more like the one-motion jumper coaches strive to get for their players.

So what does that mean for Washington? Well, it means that I think Hachimura has a chance to shoot it at a reasonable clip at some point. Lower-body mechanics are fixable, especially for a coordinated kid. But it’s going to be a project, and it might look kind of ugly early on as he works through these things. And that moniker of “project” can likely be said for the rest of his game, too. The lack of reactivity on defense is steadily apparent in Vegas. Teaching him reads and where he needs to be is going to be absolutely essential. His feel on defense is low. He’s also not passing the ball at all in Vegas, really, other than to make escape passes. That’s another of Hachimura’s long-scouted question-marks. Can he make plays for others in decisive manners instead of just trying to make it all happen himself? This is likely a consequence of playing as the focal point of his team’s offense in Japanese competition throughout both his formative years as well as his time with the national team now. Finally, if he does want to be that primary scorer, his handle needs to tighten up substantially. I included a clip above of him getting hounded and pretty consistently losing the ball before turning it over. He just loses control of the ball a bit too often unless he’s moving decisively in a straight line.

Again, these are skills that can be worked through for a player who has come to basketball late. The athleticism is there. Where you see Hachimura shine best is when he just uses his motor to run the floor hard and create offense through effort. He doesn’t have a ton of vertical pop around the basket, but his combination of physical strength and quickness with his first step catches similarly-sized players by surprise. But given all of this, it’s easy to see why Hachimura was one of the most polarizing players in the draft for front office folks. There were legitimately some who felt the upside was worth taking in the top-six of this draft. Others didn’t grade him as a first-rounder because they didn’t want to undertake the heavy skill-based development that was necessary for him to reach his ceiling. The good news is that in Washington, he’s got time now. The organization isn’t expecting to compete this year. They’ll take it slow with him, and let it all come organically. Because of that, this was a good situation for him to end up in.

This was a scouting report about Rui after summer league. His growth from then till now has just been phenomenal. And it's just not fair to him and the amount of hard work he's put in, to not have put where he is at a player into context. This kid is the real deal. And, I'm going to be honest. If it takes him becoming an objectively/universally accepted "good player" for you to be able to see that, then you're just not a good basketball analyst. While we argue about how much better of a defender Bonga is than Rui, how about we get a dose of actual reality.

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[prime1time]

Another takeaway from that is how many bad shots did you see? Rui at Gonzaga and Rui last year took bad shots. That has beenn eliminated from his game. While it's awkward, he gives up the ball. And as much as I don't like how many long twos he takes, that way better than forcing bad shots. Another thing, look at how quick his possessions are with the ball. Either he makes a move, or he's giving up the ball. The challenge for him is that he's just starting to incorporate this new style. But the more reps he gets the better he's going to be. The Bucks are a good defensive team and for a large portion of the game, he was guarded by last year's defensive player of the year. Yet he played the two best games of his career. Regardless of where his career goes from here, what he did in these two games should end any conversation of whether or not Rui can be a good player. The only question now is can he be consistent. In terms of tools and skills, he has it all already. It's a question of can he get to the point where via pattern recognition he can process the game mental/b-ball iq aspect of the game quick enough to just go out and play. Because right now, even in these two games he's moving slowly because he's processing slow. Part of it is understandable given that he's being asked to approach the game in a fundamentally different way but he needs to get quicker.

Watch on YouTube

Most fans would be ecstatic if their 2nd-year player just had this kind of performance against Giannis. But because it's Rui and we are the Wizards, instead we get to debate who's a better defender Rui or Bonga.

[payitforward]

It’s such a positionless games nowadays that it really doesn’t matter what we (or the team) call or label Rui.

Last night against the Bucks you could argue that he played 3 positions (PF,SF,C) all about the same amount of minutes.

Yup. And in particular, the "power forward" position has gone by the wayside. Basically, you have a center, big wings, and guards. Both wings need to be switchable 1-4, or preferably 1-5; and both wings should be 3-point threats; but neither wing really has much more rebounding responsibility than the other wing (or the guards, for that matter). Basically, you want a center who pulls down double digit rebounds and everyone else to average between 5 and 8...

This is interesting & there's a lot of truth to it, but it's not altogether accurate. That is, there's still a sizable difference between the rebounding of guys listed as 4s & those listed as 3s.

Here are the average rebounds/48 minutes per position in 2010-11 & 2019-20:

2010-11 -- 1=4.8, 2=5.5, 3=7.0, 4=11.1, 5=12.7
2019-20 -- 1=6.1, 2=6.3, 3=7.6, 4=10.2, 5=14.4

First thing to note is that, overall, rebounds have gone up. The reason should be obvious: many more 3-pt. attempts (which go in at a lower rate). Presumably, this also accounts for the rise in average # of rebounds by guards -- more 3's mean more long rebounds.

This makes rebounding more important now than ever. Therefore, although it's true that PFs average @ 1 fewer than a decade ago, it is slightly more important for a 4 to be at least an average rebounder now than it was back then.

&, of course, since an "average" team wins an average number of games, it will always be better to be above average at rebounding and/or everything else -- then, now & always!

...Rui's 6.6 boards a game are pretty anemic....

But, Rui doesn't get 6.6 boards per game. He gets 5.5 boards per game. He gets 6.6 boards per 36 minutes.

...but if he got it up in the 7.5 to 8 range, he'd be normal....

Still, it's true that if he got up to 7.7 rebounds per 36 minutes, he would rebound as well as an average NBA 4.

Average does not equal "normal" however. Rui is a starter, & that's not the level of an average starter -- it's the average level of all @160+ guys who play any minutes at the 4.

...That's how much guys like Millsap, Clarke, Zion, Olynyk, PJ Washington, Tillman, Turner and Draymond average.

OTOH, Tristan Thompson gets 13.4 boards per 36 minutes. Sabonis gets 11. MPJr. gets 9.5, Kyle Kuzma gets 9, Jamychal Green gets 10.4, etc. etc. etc.

So, it's all about who you compare him with, & what you're comparing. Thus, the guys on your list may do other things at a higher level than Rui; if Rui gets 25% more boards to equal one of them, that doesn't mean he's become a player at that guy's level, does it?

Let's take Xavier Tillman as an interesting comparison for Rui:

Tillman gets 8 rebounds per 36 minutes, so to equal him, Rui only has to get slightly over 20% more rebounds. & to equal Tillman in assists, Rui only has to get 45% more of them. He just needs 30% more steals to equal Tillman in steals minus turnovers too. Oh, & Rui would need to block 10 times more shots....

Then again, Rui scores a few more points per 36 minutes than Tillman does, but Tillman has a slightly higher TS%. Tillman also fouls more than Rui. So, he's not better than Rui at everything. But, here's the thing:

overall, Xavier Tillman is playing at a much higher level than Rui Hachimura. He's also a rookie. He's also a little more than a year younger than Rui. & he was the 35th pick in the draft -- not the #9 pick. Memphis isn't "all in" on the kid.

I also doubt that Memphis fans feel they have to arrange the numbers & comparisons with the idea that they might make Tillman look like a potential star of the future.