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So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

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What is the pivot now that Harden is gone? Votes can be changed

Beal
32
33%
Lavine
24
25%
Smaller moves around the edges
41
42%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1921 » by sixers hoops » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:05 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
I think trading for him in general is probably off the table if they aren't at least open to re-signing him.

Regardless, are expecting this team to try and duck the tax in 2 of the next 3 years while their star is playing at an MVP level? I mean, Daryl's got experience doing that for a cheap owner, but I have to imagine taking those cuffs off of him was part of the selling point on coming here

If that's the case maybe we should be focusing more of salary dump idea to get them under this year with the caveat that they're "opening up roster spots for buyout guys"


12M a year certainly didn't hurt.

The Harris group sends mixed messages, but until further notice IMO we should err on the side of assuming they will cheap out on repeater tax. Because they have been bad owners up to this point.

Well the only way for them to prove they would pay the repeater tax is by actually paying the repeater tax. And trading Green for someone they could sign is a step towards doing that.

The logic just seems kind of circular here.


Yeah. It’s tough to discuss potential moves without knowing for certain they will continue to pay the tax. I never thought they were cheap in the Hinkie/Colangelo years. The reason we had a small payroll was because we weren’t wasting cap space when we weren’t ready to compete. We had to make moves just to hit the floor at times. Josh Harris wasn’t really faced with an opportunity to spend until the Embiid, Simmons, Harris, Hortford contracts hit.

Over the last year, him being the first owner to try to cut and reduce pay of employees early in the pandemic was definitely a reminder that he has his eye on the bottom line. Then after the Hortford trade, Sixers Beat, if I’m paraphrasing correctly, discussed the likelihood of Morey needing to get under the luxury tax enough to use their midlevel while staying under the tax threshold this summer. If the roster doesn’t have a legit chance to win a title, I don’t see him approving the steep repeater penalties to get stuck in the second round again. However, ownership has shown they’ll shell out big money if it helps the value of the franchise. Looking at the practice facility, contracts of our star players, etc, so I think they would pay under the right circumstances.

I think Ive come to the conclusion reading between the lines, any move to re-sign a player and exceed the tax threshold has to be sold to ownership as a championship addition. So if Morey makes a trade for an expiring contract, like Lowry, I can’t give it a complete grade until we re-sign the player. In contrasting with Jimmy Butler, we gave up no young players or picks, and maintained cap room to sign another max player, so that trade had little long term downside. Sending out a pick or Maxey, not getting to the finals, then letting the player walk would be dumb. If they think Lowry puts us as a favorite to come out of the East, then you have to do it, but I’m not seeing it.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1922 » by sixers hoops » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:15 pm

youngcrev wrote:
sixers hoops wrote: To me, Lowry is likely a rental because I don’t believe Harris is going to pay the repeater tax unless it is for a more impactful piece. I think if they could get Beal and it meant several years of luxury tax, maybe he signs off. However, I don’t believe he signs off to pay repeater tax for Lowry.

However, if the luxury tax isn’t a concern and we are going to re-sign Lowry, then that greatly changes my opinion. I would then consider throwing in a first. While I don’t think it’s wise to pay Lowry big money, it’s not my money and it would only be two years or so, so not huge long term damage.


I think trading for him in general is probably off the table if they aren't at least open to re-signing him.

Regardless, are expecting this team to try and duck the tax in 2 of the next 3 years while their star is playing at an MVP level? I mean, Daryl's got experience doing that for a cheap owner, but I have to imagine taking those cuffs off of him was part of the selling point on coming here

If that's the case maybe we should be focusing more of salary dump idea to get them under this year with the caveat that they're "opening up roster spots for buyout guys"


I got the feeing they may try to duck the steeper repeater tax, but mainly from a Sixers Beat where they discussed the importance of the Horford trade in giving breathing room to use the midlevel. It’s possible I misunderstood, or it’s outdated info at this point, or it was just a benefit of the trade they were pointing out and I am running to much with it.

In my head, any trade we discuss, I think we have to look at the possibility Morey doesn’t have carte blanche with the spending. If he is tied by luxury tax concerns, we are really limited in what we can do long term. If Harris doesn’t care, then that opens up a lot more possibilities to me.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1923 » by youngcrev » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:22 pm

the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
12M a year certainly didn't hurt.

The Harris group sends mixed messages, but until further notice IMO we should err on the side of assuming they will cheap out on repeater tax. Because they have been bad owners up to this point.

Well the only way for them to prove they would pay the repeater tax is by actually paying the repeater tax. And trading Green for someone they could sign is a step towards doing that.

The logic just seems kind of circular here.


Fair enough. Which brings us to if a 35 year old 6 foot nothing PG is really the guy that could put the team over the top.


You say that like he's not currently a really good player. He's been 6 foot his whole career and has never been very explosive. His game has aged amazingly well. He'd be the 3rd best player on this team. Whether that's enough to put them over the top is a reasonable question, but I guess that kinda depends on how far away you think this team currently is.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1924 » by youngcrev » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:37 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
sixers hoops wrote: To me, Lowry is likely a rental because I don’t believe Harris is going to pay the repeater tax unless it is for a more impactful piece. I think if they could get Beal and it meant several years of luxury tax, maybe he signs off. However, I don’t believe he signs off to pay repeater tax for Lowry.

However, if the luxury tax isn’t a concern and we are going to re-sign Lowry, then that greatly changes my opinion. I would then consider throwing in a first. While I don’t think it’s wise to pay Lowry big money, it’s not my money and it would only be two years or so, so not huge long term damage.


I think trading for him in general is probably off the table if they aren't at least open to re-signing him.

Regardless, are expecting this team to try and duck the tax in 2 of the next 3 years while their star is playing at an MVP level? I mean, Daryl's got experience doing that for a cheap owner, but I have to imagine taking those cuffs off of him was part of the selling point on coming here

If that's the case maybe we should be focusing more of salary dump idea to get them under this year with the caveat that they're "opening up roster spots for buyout guys"


I got the feeing they may try to duck the steeper repeater tax, but mainly from a Sixers Beat where they discussed the importance of the Horford trade in giving breathing room to use the midlevel. It’s possible I misunderstood, or it’s outdated info at this point, or it was just a benefit of the trade they were pointing out and I am running to much with it.

In my head, any trade we discuss, I think we have to look at the possibility Morey doesn’t have carte blanche with the spending. If he is tied by luxury tax concerns, we are really limited in what we can do long term. If Harris doesn’t care, then that opens up a lot more possibilities to me.


Looks like we'll have more room than I was thinking under the tax next year, so my assumption that it's pretty unavoidable was a bad one.

We're at 116 for the 8 guys with 140 as the projected tax mark.

So you could actually hand out a decent sized deal and stay under if you were good with going with minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Or use MLE and keep some guys.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1925 » by stormi » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:01 pm

Free Collin Sexton, he's obviously disgruntled and would like out

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1926 » by Kobblehead » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:05 pm

Kevin Love is such a clown. Remember when he threw the hissy fit in the middle of a possession because he was mad at Collin Sexton?
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1927 » by the_process » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:45 pm

stormi wrote:Free Collin Sexton, he's obviously disgruntled and would like out

Image


Sexton would fit like a glove here.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1928 » by zaz102 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:56 pm

the_process wrote:
stormi wrote:Free Collin Sexton, he's obviously disgruntled and would like out

Image


Sexton would fit like a glove here.
Unless I'm missing something here, I'm sure Cleveland wants to get rid of Love too.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1929 » by sixers hoops » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:12 pm

youngcrev wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
I think trading for him in general is probably off the table if they aren't at least open to re-signing him.

Regardless, are expecting this team to try and duck the tax in 2 of the next 3 years while their star is playing at an MVP level? I mean, Daryl's got experience doing that for a cheap owner, but I have to imagine taking those cuffs off of him was part of the selling point on coming here

If that's the case maybe we should be focusing more of salary dump idea to get them under this year with the caveat that they're "opening up roster spots for buyout guys"


I got the feeing they may try to duck the steeper repeater tax, but mainly from a Sixers Beat where they discussed the importance of the Horford trade in giving breathing room to use the midlevel. It’s possible I misunderstood, or it’s outdated info at this point, or it was just a benefit of the trade they were pointing out and I am running to much with it.

In my head, any trade we discuss, I think we have to look at the possibility Morey doesn’t have carte blanche with the spending. If he is tied by luxury tax concerns, we are really limited in what we can do long term. If Harris doesn’t care, then that opens up a lot more possibilities to me.


Looks like we'll have more room than I was thinking under the tax next year, so my assumption that it's pretty unavoidable was a bad one.

We're at 116 for the 8 guys with 140 as the projected tax mark.

So you could actually hand out a decent sized deal and stay under if you were good with going with minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Or use MLE and keep some guys.


Yeah. We have some room to add, but I think anything involving trading and re-signing the common names like Lavine, Oladipo, Lowry, etc, would be likely a luxury tax commitment.

I think moving Green, Scott, Maxey, and some firsts, if we could get an all-star level guy, would be the best-case scenario, but we be a perennial tax commitment. Not sure who we could get for that type of package, but to get an impact guy and re-sign would be ideal.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1930 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:41 am

Detroit reportedly just looking for a 2nd for Ellington. He and Bjelica should be affordable depth adds.

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1931 » by Kobblehead » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:12 am

Too much, tbh. Neither are worth anything through trade.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1932 » by elchengue20 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:39 pm

Im not giving up anything for Wayne freaking Ellington.

Maybe a late 2nd for Bjelica because he fits a need.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1933 » by sixers hoops » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:35 am

elchengue20 wrote:Im not giving up anything for Wayne freaking Ellington.

Maybe a late 2nd for Bjelica because he fits a need.


Late 2nds are often throwaways or sold anyway. However, I really like drafting with as many seconds as possible. Get as many potential Shake, Bball Paul, and Joe prospects as possible. It takes a lot to hit on second rounders, so I like taking as many of those guys into camp as possible.

However, years where we have three or four seconds, trading a late one for a rental is prob a good use since we can only carry so many rookies year after year.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1934 » by DCasey91 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:41 am

Oladipo looked the goods (called 5 goods after the break ones so 3-4 to go). If you want to swing for it now I’d take him because the cost isn’t going to be big.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1935 » by Negrodamus » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:21 am

With the way Thybulle is playing, I think it’s time to trade Danny. Him and Maxey would be a good foundation for a legit vet.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1936 » by shlo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:43 am

Really wish the Sixers took a low risk high rewards flyers on Kevin Porter Jr. Obviously he'd be getting a lot fewer minutes in Philly, but this guy has tons of potential. Granted, also head case potential. But definitely worth a 2nd rounder.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1937 » by 51X3RF4N » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:03 am

Green, Scott and Maxey for Lowry is still very likely if you ask me.

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1938 » by DCasey91 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:34 am

Swap Maxey for Milton and I’m on board for pretty much any move that’s makes us better (pretty similar contract but Maxey has the best upside out of the youngsters easily. Just wished we had two to raffle it going forward. Not high on Milton).
Bouknight outside or around top ten would really be interesting for Morey. Fits the youngster positional
needs.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1939 » by Negrodamus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:13 am

PJ Tucker to the team that just beat us.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors 

Post#1940 » by mithrandir17 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:40 am

MIL just trades its FRP like it means nothing. You cant expect Morey to match that. Tucker does not deserve to be traded for a FRP no matter how late it is.

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