Who is more at fault for this mess of a season Brad or Danny?

[Spin Move]

This season has gone badly. Arguments can be made about why, so make them.

I personally believe that Brad is more at fault then Danny. We have alot more high end talent then many teams who are outperforming us. We have had injuries and illness and that is a major part of the problem but the biggest problem to me is Brad's coaching. Our offense lacks any creativity and there is not nearly enough movement. We have JT, JB Sd Kemba who are all above average scorers Kemba once you remove his awful start has averaged around 19 points a game. Brad has failed to put our role players in position to succeed. I think he is a good coach, I am not saying fire him but he is more of a reason then Danny that we are not doing well.

JT JB Smart and Kemba all well above average nba players
Robert Williams and Thies are both above average role player
Thompson is playing like a leage average player, Pritchard looks like a solid nba backup right there is an 8 man rotation of players who belong in the NBA.

Hayward wanted to be the man that is why he went to Charlotte, I don't think we can blame danny for not pulling of the Indana trade at this point Hayward did not want to go to indy and we could not make him. Danny salvaged the situation by getting a huge TPE though clearly the loss of Hayward has greatly impacted us. I think Nesmith will be good, he was solid when he finally got consistent burn but despite our very limited amount of shooting outside of the starters Brad does not play our next best shooter.

I think injuries/covid have played a major role in our lack of cohesion but I think we should have won more games with the roster we have.

I think both the Thompson and Teague signings were misses for Danny, but I think Brad is more at fault for what is going on now.

[GoGreen]

Ainge Ainge Ainge.

Now that's not to let Brad off the hook, these guys are not playing hard, but this roster... good Lord this roster is truly bad. Danny really has messed this team up. Brad can't make chicken parm from chicken ****

[return2glory]

Nice thread.

To me it’s not even not even close. Danny all the way. He has lost his touch over the past 3 years. Can’t make any trades, has sucked with his recent draft picks and hasn’t been able to sign free agents. Half the roster he has are made up of 12 man material.

IMO, Brad is still a top 5 coach in this league. I’m a little concerned if he will stick around for this **** show. Danny has been a huge disappointment the last 2-3 year. Brad got them to the ECF despite Danny sitting on his ass.

This is the first time ever that I wouldn’t mind he Danny moved on. And I’m a huge Ainge fan.

And I will also say this. Tatum and Brown aren’t as good as people think. Neither one is a true leader. They don’t make their teammates better. Their rebounding and getting to the line and drawing fouls hasn’t improved over all season. And their ability to play defense has taken a step down. They are both good talents and no means the main reason for this horrible season and they aren’t as good as people here make them out to be.

[BRUNiNHO91]

To me it's Brad.

Danny gave this dude the best 1 to 9 roster that the NBA has had in years and he couldn't make it past the 2nd round. He couldn't get the best out of Kyrie or Hayward.. Rondo quit on him years ago, Kyrie quit on him, his buddy Hayward left him to be in CHARLOTTE the first chance he got..Horford left, Rozier left, Morris left.. And now you can slowly start to see Jaylen and Jayson quitting on him also...

Dude knows the game of basketball, there is no doubt about it.. but he is a manager of kids.. Not men. He is not a winner, has never been a winner and frankly, doesn't know how to win. This season isn't really his fault, but we don't have a better squad today because he couldn't get it done with a better squad and led us to believe 'less is more'..and here we are today with a lot of 'less'.

Btw, haven't even touched on Kemba Walker. I guarantee that Kemba Walker goes back to being a 25ppg killer the minute he leaves this garbage ass system behind.

I also think he is the reason Boston doesn't take more risks. I see him being very scared of coaching the tougher personalities of the NBA.

[Ill News]

It's obviously Ainge.

OP is right in that we have top-end talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Time Lord, but they're also young players who have a lot to learn despite all their playoff experience. They're not at their peak yet, which means they should be surrounded by players who either complement their game or can help them grow. Ainge has failed to provide that for two seasons now. Kemba was a nice get, but he's proven to be not much a leader too and he's a defensive liability. He's also regressed.

Ainge's recent picks have been lackluster too. His only hits have been Time Lord and Pritchard, and Pritchard doesn't have that high of a ceiling. The rest have disappointed: Langford is constantly injured and is superfluous behind Tatum and Brown, Nesmith looks like a pup out there (though he was getting better when he was receiving playing time), and Grant Williams looks like a career journeyman who might even wash out of the league at this point. Having lottery picks who can't contribute is a disaster. I highly doubt Brad is consciously choosing not to play them; he probably sees that those guys just aren't good or ready enough to see minutes, because he has been generous with minutes to young players in the past.

The veteran additions of Thompson and Teague are downright terrible. Thompson is severely limited while Teague plays like he just had a lobotomy. Kanter and Wanamaker last season were much more productive than Ainge's additions this year.

I'm not saying Brad and the players don't deserve blame, they do. It's just that they're all underperforming because the pieces just don't fit, and that's all on Ainge because he's the architect of this current team. His offseason was terrible, letting Hayward walk with nothing but a TPE to show for it, which he probably won't use until the offseason. Which means Ainge just wasted everyone's time this season, and probably wasted a year of Tatum and Brown who have been brilliant.

Ainge has been a great GM in the past, but the past two years have tarnished his reputation. It seems like he's gotten himself into a mess that he can't fix easily.

[1st banana]

Went with Danny but only because there wasn’t a both option. Danny has no excuse not to be making small depth acquisitions in competitive years and wants to walk the line between growth and title. If the jays are the cornerstones then add complimentary pieces around them. I could say more but we all know.

Brad same **** different day. The nba has quietly passed him by seemingly. Every **** or good team we play is firing away open 3s and we’re shooting fading deep crap twos and loafing on defense. Love the guy and all but he’s about as fiery and animated as a turnip.

I’m about two weeks of **** play away from rooting against us for draft reasons. If we don’t see a drastic change in play immediately then we’re ****, and that’s probably green teamish to give them that long.

[flintsky21]

Danny all the way.

You've got G-League level guys like Semi, Grant and Teague all averaging 18 minutes per game. You overplayed your hand with Hayward where you could have at least netted a starting center and a reliable shooter in return. You traded a first round pick that was eventually used on a player that would end up being better than the 2 guys you actually drafted (Desmond Bane), and all because you wanted to save a spot for guys like Semi and Javonte and so you could correct a mistake from the previous season (signing Kanter). You used your MLE on a center, and now you're stuck with having an emerging center that needs more minutes, a solid center that also warrants minutes, and your biggest offseason acquisition all sharing a single position. Your only other offseason signing is a washed-up vet when you already have like 5 pointguards in the roster.

[Bleeding Green]

Maybe the two best players are just growing. They are presently completely incapable of making their teammates better. Is this just normal growth of a young team? I mean, I don't get why Stevens plays double bigs, or Jeff Teague, or Semi Ojeleye, especially as his team is .500. I dunno why the top three players are allowed, possession after possession, to take such terrible shots, as if it's the end goal of every possession to take a fadeaway 2. Every other team in the NBA has figured it out. What is taking the Celtics so long? To me it seems like Stevens has no offensive plan and just lets the best players do whatever they want. If they know what to do, great. But when they are 22, 24, and washed, now what?

I'm blown away at how awful this team is. A few months ago they were nearing an NBA Finals appearance. Now they are an easy sweep in the first round.

[jirrit]

Brad Stevens cannot light fire under these guys.

[Krkrich]

The root of the issue is Danny's fault. The roster he constructed this year was terrible. There really isn't a plan anymore. We let a lot of talent leave and haven't brought in quality replacements. He wasted all those draft picks instead of packaging some of them. He dropped the ball.

With all that said, Brad pisses me off too. I just don't think he's the right guy, despite getting us to the ECF multiple seasons. I think this team needs a coach who can get fired up, especially a team that's so young. Brad doesn't provide any energy. I'm sick of his stupid clipboard and the silly smirk that's always on his face. I'm tired of the poor rotations and just overall piss poor game planning and in game adjustments. I hope he takes the job at Indiana.

[Bill Bradley]

Makes no sense to choose Ainge over Brad if you think Brown, Tatum, Timelord, Smart, and Pritchard were good picks. That’s an entire future starting five he drafted and the jury is out on Nesmith because Brad won’t play him.

Ainge has made mistakes but I am glad he didn’t trade for Myles Turner because we know that It would mean that Timelord’s emergence would not have happened. And the only guy Celtics lost who I miss is Rozier who probably left because of Brad.

It does seem Ainge has lost his balls a bit, like how he didn’t trade Kyrie immediately when it was clear he was sabotaging the team and wanted out, but I feel like some of the complaints about not upgrading end of the bench garbage for slightly better garbage is nitpicking.

The real issue is that Brad still has a small college mentality and plays tryhards and veterans over more talented players with more upside. How long did it take him to elevate guys like Brown and Timelord in the rotation when it was obvious to everyone else they provided the best chance of winning games? Brad makes guys no other coach would play a regular part of his rotation and constantly loses games because of it.

[MrGreenRunsDeep]

Can’t blame Ainge... all the blame goes to Brad Stevens. Good players left under the coaching of Brad Stevens . I think kyrie leaving was the hint to other players that Brad Stevens ain’t the good coach.

[FlatearthZorro]

Can’t blame Ainge... all the blame goes to Brad Stevens. Good players left under the coaching of Brad Stevens . I think kyrie leaving was the hint to other players that Brad Stevens ain’t the good coach.

Kyrie is a very mentally unstable, self-absorbed person. Kyrie's departure was nobody's fault. Not Brad, nor Danny. The organization treated him like a freaking KING. He repaid us by acting like a complete diva and putting on one of the worst playoff performances I've seen.

When it comes to who I blame more- it's Danny. We haven't had even a middle of the pack bench for around 4 years maybe. None of the guy Danny has brought in to help have even done anything mediocore. Both Danny and Brad deserve the blame, but Danny could've/should've done so much better. Watch as he doesn't add anybody this deadline either. I suspect he lets the TPE expire, too.

[Fencer reregistered]

Crossposting from the Fire Ainge thread:

I don't think the issue here is Ainge's personnel selection. He had a terrible offseason except in the draft. It happens. Many personnel moves fail, even ones made by Red Auerbach or Jerry West.

Brad, however, is having his second year in the past three of ineffective coaching, and the one sandwiched between had some imperfections too. I get that this is one of the hardest years to coach in a long time, but Brad seems to be doing worse than a number of his peers. And Ainge hasn't done anything useful we can detect to get Brad onto a better path.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here and thinking I know what Brad should do to improve in this year that teaching is so extraordinarily difficult, at least at the 100,000-foot level:
-- Pick a scheme and a matching rotation ...
-- ... so as to reduce the volume of what needs to be effectively taught!
-- Work with Ainge to agree on rotation tradeoffs between immediate results and player development.

And at the 30,000-foot level I have a pretty good idea of what the rotations and offensive schemes should be:
-- A multiple-actions offense, heavy on the high screens, because that's what Stevens has been trying to teach all along.
-- A P&R center (Theis/Time Lord) doing P&R things, other offensive help (passing, seals, high screens), and switchable defense.
-- A natural PG (Smart/Pritchard) to keep the offense flowing and reset it as needed.
-- The top creative scorers (Tatum, Walker, Brown) staggered in the lineup as much as possible.
-- More variety in who's involved in P&Rs and DHOs (if all you have is a hammer, get a broad variety of nails).
-- Emphasis on moving without the ball, with willingness to do that smartly being a huge determinant of who does or doesn't get minutes. WIth that plan, Nesmith would get minutes. Grant would play better or sit (it could either way). Etc.

[JediMasterRevan]

One thing I really hate is that even though the team is only 500 and is really not in alot of games, guys like nesmith are not getting any minutes.

He is lotto pick and has far far far more potential than guys like semi.

[akidlittle]

Mostly all of this is a result of a one bad luck trade. If we hadn't made a move acquiring Kyrie... No Kyrie, no Kemba, no bad blood with IT, SGA or Sexton in the roster... Who's responsible for the trade? Ig Ainge... But at the same time everyone was so happy when we traded for Kyrie... Some moves take time to evaluate

[JediMasterRevan]

As much as i hate some parts of the roster Damny did not plan on Kemba sucking, or injuries happening.

Brad, was never really a huge fan of his and its becoming less and less

[BillessuR6]

Stevens. What is our offensive and defensive system? Brand of basketball we are playing is not winning basketball.

We have more talent on this team than our record is showing. Sure, we are top heavy but Stevens isn`t getting the most out of his guys...

[jirrit]

The fact he’s flattered by a college says enough. He’s just not built to be a top top coach. Much promise and a super chill guy who wouldnt harm anyone but we need some FIRE, some name calling, some UBUNTU and no I’m not calling for Doc but..

[BigTrade92]

There’s a good reason there’s a 32 page “Fire Ainge” thread and not a “Fire Stevens” one in sight.

This roster is an abomination. G-Leaguers and guys who should be working at Planet Fitness are our key depth. Can’t win with that.

The problem has been Ainge for a few years now. He needs to go.