"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[MagicBagley18]

Lonzo smart brown Tatum timelord defensive lineup would be fun to watch

[darrendaye]

Kemba, Theis, AND Langford for Ball/Reddick/Aminu? Overvalues Ball, undervalues Kemba and Theis, Reddick is no use to us

Kemba has no value to the Pels, so he cant be undervalued in this scenario. If the Pels wanted Kemba, they couldve had him this summer for Jrue, but they didnt.

The Pels have had the #1 offense in the league since the end of January, that is when they went to more of a point forward offense led by Zion and Ingram. So if they didnt want Kemba this summer before they switched to the Zion/Ingram led offense. They definitely dont want him now.

Again to use Kemba to get Lonzo, a third team is going to be needed.

Is the problem that we're making Kemba the headliner? Maybe we can sneak him in through the backdoor by putting his name last in these trade ideas to the Pelicans.

[Duke4life831]

Kemba, Theis, AND Langford for Ball/Reddick/Aminu? Overvalues Ball, undervalues Kemba and Theis, Reddick is no use to us

Kemba has no value to the Pels, so he cant be undervalued in this scenario. If the Pels wanted Kemba, they couldve had him this summer for Jrue, but they didnt.

The Pels have had the #1 offense in the league since the end of January, that is when they went to more of a point forward offense led by Zion and Ingram. So if they didnt want Kemba this summer before they switched to the Zion/Ingram led offense. They definitely dont want him now.

Again to use Kemba to get Lonzo, a third team is going to be needed.

Is the problem that we're making Kemba the headliner? Maybe we can sneak him in through the backdoor by putting his name last in these trade ideas to the Pelicans.

That may just work haha. I can see Ainge pulling that off against Griffin haha.

[zoyathedestroya]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

[31to6]

Get ready for Victor Oladipo!
It won’t make any sense
Maybe there IS no sense

[Andrew McCeltic]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

He gets big counting stats and he’s improving, but yeah, he still sucks - not ready to anchor a defense yet.

[JHTruth]

If you can get lonzo now and then move off kemba in the offseason and then sign lonzo as your starter for much less than kemba’s salary thats a win. Also a philosophical shift from our undersized guards to a big guard in lonzo.

Again lonzo’s probably getting somewhere between 18-22 imo I’d guess but that’s just me spit ballin. You’d have the chance to match any salary but if he truly wants New York or elsewhere klutch and lavar will make it unbearable for us. I don’t think pels would move lonzo after his play lately but if you’re griffin u have to wonder if lonzo is gonna force his way out

Lonzo isn't a fit in NO. He plays a lot off-ball and Ingram and Zion run the offense. Lonzo wants to go somewhere he can be at least a secondary initiator. That may be here not sure. They may want to keep trying to make Tatum the lead initiator but IMHO it's not a natural fit for him.

[JHTruth]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

Not a very sound analysis as Theis almost always plays with the starters while any mins Theis and TL have played together was no doubt with at least one awful scrub.

I'd say Theis is still the more sound defender but Rob simply has much more impact on the game

[MagicBagley18]

If you can get lonzo now and then move off kemba in the offseason and then sign lonzo as your starter for much less than kemba’s salary thats a win. Also a philosophical shift from our undersized guards to a big guard in lonzo.

Again lonzo’s probably getting somewhere between 18-22 imo I’d guess but that’s just me spit ballin. You’d have the chance to match any salary but if he truly wants New York or elsewhere klutch and lavar will make it unbearable for us. I don’t think pels would move lonzo after his play lately but if you’re griffin u have to wonder if lonzo is gonna force his way out

Lonzo isn't a fit in NO. He plays a lot off-ball and Ingram and Zion run the offense. Lonzo wants to go somewhere he can be at least a secondary initiator. That may be here not sure. They may want to keep trying to make Tatum the lead initiator but IMHO it's not a natural fit for him.

Well if he has an issue of New Orleans running plays through Zion and Ingram he’s not gonna get plays ran through him with the jays. Difference here is we can have him run the offense which is what I think he wants but we’d have to move kemba and I agree tatum and be less initiator in spots but not a majority

[31to6]

Almost time for the entire board to debate Fierce at length again!

Go Celtics.

[JHTruth]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

He gets big counting stats and he’s improving, but yeah, he still sucks - not ready to anchor a defense yet.

Depends on what system you're looking at, BPM Rob is a very good defender. EPM and LEBRON Rob is better than Theis. RPM (The only system that doesn't rate Rob highly) and RAPTOR, Theis is better.

Eye test, Theis is just more experienced but has nowhere near the tools of Rob. This is peak Theis while Rob is just really starting out

[MagicBagley18]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

His defense absolutely still needs a lot of work but his awareness has improved. His not jumping at every head fake like he did. Still has a ways to go but he is improving. He also does make the other team think about driving to the rim- it may not be 100% reflected yet in his stats but with his recent extended minutes you can see it and feel it.

He’s def not this defensive juggernaut but he’s improved his iq a lot imo and he provides a lob threat that does have a residual effect on the offense that none of the other centers we have can provide. As well as put bucks etc.

[zoyathedestroya]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

Not a very sound analysis as Theis almost always plays with the starters while any mins Theis and TL have played together was no doubt with at least one awful scrub.

I'd say Theis is still the more sound defender but Rob simply has much more impact on the game

So that usually means Theis goes up against starting bigs, right? Whereas Rob goes up second unit stiffs and scrubby players.

Rob also spends a ton of time alongside Tatum, who usually carries our second units.

Rob is more impactful on offense, but defensively he's just not there yet.

[Fierce1]

And I will argue that I've seen the opposite more. We've had way better games when the ball moves and everyone gets to touch the ball.

That when Tatum, Brown, and Kemba find their teammates in the right spots, they've made open shots.

Whether it's Theis on rolls in the midrange, Timelord on lobs, Semi/Grant in the corner, or Smart on his cuts to the basket.

Timelord, Theis, Javonte, Pritchard, and Semi all have above average true shooting %. Tatum is below average. Kemba is way below league average. They've been shooting it fine.

Brown and Tatum trying to score by themselves in the half court is super predictable offense. And doesn't shift the defense or make the opposing defense work hard.

Yeah, early in the game guys like Theis, Semi, Pritchard, and Javonte are shooting well.
It's in clutch situations that those guys miss shots.

Theis for example, he shoots well for 3 and a half quarters then in crunch time he misses.

Tatum and Brown scoring by themselves in the half-court is super predictable offense, true.
But last season that wasn't that a big of a problem because of Hayward.
Celts just need veteran players who the Jays can trust.

[JHTruth]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

Not a very sound analysis as Theis almost always plays with the starters while any mins Theis and TL have played together was no doubt with at least one awful scrub.

I'd say Theis is still the more sound defender but Rob simply has much more impact on the game

So that usually means Theis goes up against starting bigs, right? Whereas Rob goes up second unit stiffs and scrubby players.

Rob also spends a ton of time alongside Tatum, who usually carries our second units.

Rob is more impactful on offense, but defensively he's just not there yet.

Theis has been a pro player for almost a decade at this point. Rob barely has over 1000 pro minutes. It's not really a fair comparison. I'd predict 28-year old Rob will be so much better than 28-year old Theis it will be frightening. Prime Theis is a nice solid player. Prime Rob will be a monster

[Celts17Pride]

Almost time for the entire board to debate Fierce at length again!

Go Celtics.

No I had a big debate in the game thread and in this thread the other night. I’m good for awhile LOL!

[Andrew McCeltic]

Timelord is so overrated on defense. There, I said it lol.

934 possessions without Theis but with Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 119.4. 8th percentile.
135 possessions with both Theis and Timelord on the floor, Celtics defensive rating is 97.1. 100th percentile.

Huge disparity there.

He gets big counting stats and he’s improving, but yeah, he still sucks - not ready to anchor a defense yet.

Depends on what system you're looking at, BPM Rob is a very good defender. EPM and LEBRON Rob is better than Theis. RPM (The only system that doesn't rate Rob highly) and RAPTOR, Theis is better.

Eye test, Theis is just more experienced but has nowhere near the tools of Rob. This is peak Theis while Rob is just really starting out

Yeah, I’m just being glib. Williams is solid and improving, but he doesn’t have near the situational awareness to dominate the paint defensively. Some of that could be team issues..

[Feed Your Head]

And I will argue that I've seen the opposite more. We've had way better games when the ball moves and everyone gets to touch the ball.

That when Tatum, Brown, and Kemba find their teammates in the right spots, they've made open shots.

Whether it's Theis on rolls in the midrange, Timelord on lobs, Semi/Grant in the corner, or Smart on his cuts to the basket.

Timelord, Theis, Javonte, Pritchard, and Semi all have above average true shooting %. Tatum is below average. Kemba is way below league average. They've been shooting it fine.

Brown and Tatum trying to score by themselves in the half court is super predictable offense. And doesn't shift the defense or make the opposing defense work hard.

Yeah, early in the game guys like Theis, Semi, Pritchard, and Javonte are shooting well.
It's in clutch situations that those guys miss shots.

Theis for example, he shoots well for 3 and a half quarters then in crunch time he misses.

Tatum and Brown scoring by themselves in the half-court is super predictable offense, true.
But last season that wasn't that a big of a problem because of Hayward.
Celts just need veteran players who the Jays can trust.

Theis has a TS of 63% in the last 5 minutes of close games, yeah he doesn’t hit from 3, but he’s only taken a handful on the season in those situations. Part of that is on him for being gun shy, but it’s also on the Jays for not moving the ball enough late.

Jaylen has a TS of 50% in clutch situations, so what’s happening with the offense late in games isn’t working for him either.

Tatum is really efficient in clutch situations, but the ball sticks to him and bogs down the offense some.

[Fierce1]

Almost time for the entire board to debate Fierce at length again!

Go Celtics.

The time to debate is over.

It's time Ainge gives us the verdict.

[Asian Celtic]

I miss the Theis and Tatum pick and roll where Theis seals the opponents bigman leading to a Tatum open layup.