GT: Game #42 - Charlotte @ Lakers (Mar 18th)

[DY_nasty]

Bonnell has incinuated since last night it was directly meant for Zeller, even saying PJ might start next game.

yeah and that's kinda....

if we're really gonna get up in arms about effort to the point where we call guys out and throw a fit in a post-game after back to backs against two VERY good teams - then its odd to be calling guys out now. and not Zeller of all people. I'm critical of the guy all the time but its not because of effort. some things he just straight up can't do. asking him to chase guards along the perimeter is one of them.

And as good as PJ is playing now, his effort was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse for the front half of the season and JB was not only playing the guy in crunch time but running offense through him

its just hard for me to grasp i guess. zeller has been here for ages and his effort has never been a talking point before. its hard to tell without seeing the interview though.

[Braggins]

Hayward has scored single digits in three of the last four games and they were all games against good teams where he needed to step up. His overall play has been good, but we're effectively paying him 40 million, which is in the realm of guys like Lebron and Jokic, and its clear that he is multiple tiers below those guys.

[DY_nasty]

Hayward has scored single digits in three of the last four games and they were all games against good teams where he needed to step up. His overall play has been good, but we're effectively paying him 40 million, which is in the realm of guys like Lebron and Jokic, and its clear that he is multiple tiers below those guys.

i genuinely feel like hayward still struggles with being the #1 option after his boston stint

he's too nice

[Braggins]

I mean...I get that their roles overlap a bit and that it's fun when Monk is making shots, but when he plays like this he's so much worse than Devonte when Devonte doesn't hit shots. Bad Monk is way, way worse than bad Graham.

Things I think about when we talk about decisions for next summer. I want to believe in Monk, but I haven't forgotten that he can play like this.

Eh, Monk was barely involved this game. He missed the few shots he took and had a couple of bad turnovers. Definitely his worst game, but Devonte has still had more bad games this season and hes usually not hitting his shots. Devonte has shot below 40% in 20 of the 30 games hes played in this season. The expectations are so low for this guy that people no longer even expect him to hit shots anymore and its considered a nice game for him if he shoots over 30% and doesn't turn the ball over.

If Monk was shooting 36% this season the consensus would be that he is out of the league after his rookie contract. Devonte is three years older and still hasn't shot 40% from the field for a season and hes still somehow considered a foundational piece. I definitely get that Devonte can have more impact with his passing than Monk when they aren't hitting shots, but Devontes low risk playmaking ability and stable ball handling is not that impactful and thats the main thing he offers other than mediocre outside shooting.

edit: I feel like Devontes biggest value to the team right now is that he can organize the offense and get us into our sets when LaMelo is playing like an inconsistent rookie and can't be relied upon, but that is only going to get less and less important as LaMelo gets better.

[yosemiteben]

I still don't get calling Devonte's playmaking low risk. Like...would we be happier if we turned it over more?

Devonte is 30th in the league in assists per 100 possessions, right there with guys like SGA and FVV.

I really don't get the "he's not a risk taker" take.

[DY_nasty]

yeah braggins i don't think we've been consistent on expectations with a few guys this year but its been a mixed bag top to bottom to be fair

I still don't get calling Devonte's playmaking low risk. Like...would we be happier if we turned it over more?

Devonte is 30th in the league in assists per 100 possessions, right there with guys like SGA and FVV.

I really don't get the "he's not a risk taker" take.

dude just went 3-8 as in 3-8 3s only - that's a lot of not actually probing the defense going on man. real easy to protect the ball when you're not going anywhere with it.

hell, i think the few times he drove were for a set play for a lob, flopping into caruso (which is actually a big step up considering the tae was hesitant to drive on seth curry of all people...), and pathetic biyombo based action that everyone should despise.

compare that to lamelo, monk, and rozier who will go to the rim hard no matter how bad the refs get and force defenses to collapse/respect the drive at all times. plus he's incredibly slow bringing the ball up and getting into actions compared to other guys. we're not so good as a team that we can allow defenses to get set up and beat them honestly for long stretches.

one thing that i think people missed too is that borrego largely got away from the full and 3/4 traps he used to encourage pacing when graham sat. we've been at the natural pace we needed for offense lately.

[yosemiteben]

I definitely would agree that Graham doesn't attack the rim. Is that what we mean when we say "low risk playmaking ability"?

[DY_nasty]

I definitely would agree that Graham doesn't attack the rim. Is that what we mean when we say "low risk playmaking ability"?

its one of the biggest things that sticks out but hardly all-encompassing. there's also the fact that he doesn't play east-west ball at all and is rarely ever driving the baseline too.

i actually looked it up just now too. wasn't socked to see lamelo and gordon so high on the list but graham behind guys like satoranky and cam payne when it comes to driving the ball https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?sort=DRIVES&dir=1 which is worse than i thought

shai drives the ball nearly five times more than devonte does. fred 3x

considering graham's volume shooting habits and the drive data.... geez its actually worse than i thought

[Liver_Pooty]

Personally I think our guys give incredible effort 95% of the time. Like mentioned before they are just limited in what they can do. PJ has played at times a little lazy'ish, but that wasn't the case last night. Not a fan of Borregos post game rant at all.

[DY_nasty]

Personally I think our guys give incredible effort 95% of the time. Like mentioned before they are just limited in what they can do. PJ has played at times a little lazy'ish, but that wasn't the case last night. Not a fan of Borregos post game rant at all.

we got guards regularly guarding centers on a regular basis and guys do exactly what they're told in leaving shooters wide open then running at them from 10ft away like they're told even when they know its stupid

i don't think JB knows what a low effort team looks like.

[yosemiteben]

Dy I'm 100% with you that Devonte's inability to penetrate, get to the rim, and convert is a huge limiter to his game and by a wide margin his biggest weakness.

[Braggins]

I definitely would agree that Graham doesn't attack the rim. Is that what we mean when we say "low risk playmaking ability"?

I see him as good, but definitely not elite, in terms of vision + passing skill and hes not someone who is going to create a ton of scoring opportunities for guys that wouldn't otherwise be there without his involvement. He'll hit the open man at a good rate with elite assist/to, though. That definitely has value, but with Devonte I'm not sure the net result is that good when you consider it on balance with the downside of running our offense through a guy who puts so little pressure on the defense as much as we do.

I think a big part of the problem is that Borrego relies on him to do too much. Hed probably look a lot better if he was playing like 12-15 mpg and spent most of his time spotting up or occasionally attacking on secondary actions after getting us into our sets, which lets be honest, is going to be the long term role on this team for any backup PG with his skill set because of how good LaMelo is. Borrego still relies on him to run offense quite a bit and he even somehow still gets priority a lot of the time in end of quarter isolation situations, the latter of which is especially baffling to me. You're rarely going to get really bad possessions running things through Devonte, but you also end up spending way too much time caught in a loop where he just keeps running pick and rolls that don't progress anything because the defense simply doesn't help and sits on his passing lanes while switching any ball screen action if they really need to without worrying about being punished.

It feels like hes a crutch for Borrego. Borrego trusts him more than just about anyone and it seems like its killing Borrego to limit his role as much as he already has (which isn't far enough imo). I might be reading into things too much with that last statement, but him benching LaMelo for most of the stretch run in the 4th last night for Devonte was a real wtf moment.