[WOJ] PJ Tucker to MIL

[Prospect Dong]

The early second round picks are more valuable than the last 6 picks of the 1st rd because there is no guaranteed contract tied to 2nd round picks.

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Oh god not this debate again. No, a first is always worth more than a second. You have a wider selection of players and its very rare that the (two year only) guaranteed contract is negative.

Yeah, this. The odds of the difference between a late first rounder's year two salary and the automatic minimum roster charge hurting you are incredibly long.

Having a few extra guys on the board when you pick, and automatically getting four years worth of team options at a fixed low salary without needing to use exceptions is potentially huge if you manage to snag even an 11th man type, let alone a starter or a star.

Just not having to negotiate salary when your eurostash comes over is nice...

[K_chile22]

The early second round picks are more valuable than the last 6 picks of the 1st rd because there is no guaranteed contract tied to 2nd round picks.

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Oh god not this debate again. No, a first is always worth more than a second. You have a wider selection of players and its very rare that the (two year only) guaranteed contract is negative.

Yeah, this. The odds of the difference between a late first rounder's year two salary and the automatic minimum roster charge hurting you are incredibly long.

Having a few extra guys on the board when you pick, and automatically getting four years worth of team options at a fixed low salary without needing to use exceptions is potentially huge if you manage to snag even an 11th man type, let alone a starter or a star.

Just not having to negotiate salary when your eurostash comes over is nice...

Yeah if you want to cut bait on a guy you picked in the twenties after one season, you probably have bigger issues than that salary being guaranteed

[Prospect Dong]

Oh god not this debate again. No, a first is always worth more than a second. You have a wider selection of players and its very rare that the (two year only) guaranteed contract is negative.

Yeah, this. The odds of the difference between a late first rounder's year two salary and the automatic minimum roster charge hurting you are incredibly long.

Having a few extra guys on the board when you pick, and automatically getting four years worth of team options at a fixed low salary without needing to use exceptions is potentially huge if you manage to snag even an 11th man type, let alone a starter or a star.

Just not having to negotiate salary when your eurostash comes over is nice...

Yeah if you want to cut bait on a guy you picked in the twenties after one season, you probably have bigger issues than that salary being guaranteed

Yep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Baldwin_IV (at 17 no less)

[Texas Chuck]

So to be clear here the picks as it sits today is #26 for #33. Then they pushed the 22 pick to 23? I had Augustine as awful money.

7 spots as of today and pushing a pick back 1 year for Tucker and Kuruks? I woulda asked for House, but this is the kind of shifty move a team like Milwaukee needed to make to improve the front court. Watch out for the Tucker resurgence.

And with Craig portion, totally out of the tax right?

I have this as a definite win for the Bucks.

With the deal official, it confirms the Bucks are $1.2M under the tax as I surmised. So again RPG gets credit for being the first to note what a good deal this was for the Bucks. Still can't believe so many people don't like it. Just such a minimal cost to pay to get a very useful player who will close games, dump Augustin's money creating flexibility for next year, getting a decent TPE, and getting out of the tax--millions of dollars in real money.

Good deal for both teams, but especially the Bucks.

[bondom34]

So to be clear here the picks as it sits today is #26 for #33. Then they pushed the 22 pick to 23? I had Augustine as awful money.

7 spots as of today and pushing a pick back 1 year for Tucker and Kuruks? I woulda asked for House, but this is the kind of shifty move a team like Milwaukee needed to make to improve the front court. Watch out for the Tucker resurgence.

And with Craig portion, totally out of the tax right?

I have this as a definite win for the Bucks.

With the deal official, it confirms the Bucks are $1.2M under the tax as I surmised. So again RPG gets credit for being the first to note what a good deal this was for the Bucks. Still can't believe so many people don't like it. Just such a minimal cost to pay to get a very useful player who will close games, dump Augustin's money creating flexibility for next year, getting a decent TPE, and getting out of the tax--millions of dollars in real money.

Good deal for both teams, but especially the Bucks.

Just want to second this. Initially I reacted in the opposite but am liking this more for the Bucks, and RPG really broke this one down nicely, well put.

Would for sure change votes now, but do think "both" is fair. Had Tucker's value at 1-2 2nds and given what they got out of financially think this is a bit better, but the Rockets did get actual value too.

[HartfordWhalers]

So, the Bucks convinced Giannis they would pay the tax so he could re-sign, then promptly trade their last remaining first from now till the end of Stepien to dump their (non-Jrue) signings and get out of the tax? I will be hanging the Mission Accomplished banner, someone else get the punch and pie.

[Texas Chuck]

So, the Bucks convinced Giannis they would pay the tax so he could re-sign, then promptly trade their last remaining first from now till the end of Stepien to dump their (non-Jrue) signings and get out of the tax? I will be hanging the Mission Accomplished banner, someone else get the punch and pie.

I mean I was convinced they intentionally hard-capped themselves so limit what they could spend so I'm not surprised at all about them getting out of tax. Had even proposed a few deals here that achieved that. I don't think Giannis cares about them ducking under the tax this year since it makes them better on the court and in theory frees up money to spend next year.

I mean they messed up the off-season badly. But this went a little way towards fixing it. I don't have not making this deal more attractive to Giannis.

[HartfordWhalers]

So, the Bucks convinced Giannis they would pay the tax so he could re-sign, then promptly trade their last remaining first from now till the end of Stepien to dump their (non-Jrue) signings and get out of the tax? I will be hanging the Mission Accomplished banner, someone else get the punch and pie.

I mean I was convinced they intentionally hard-capped themselves so limit what they could spend so I'm not surprised at all about them getting out of tax. Had even proposed a few deals here that achieved that. I don't think Giannis cares about them ducking under the tax this year since it makes them better on the court and in theory frees up money to spend next year.

I mean they messed up the off-season badly. But this went a little way towards fixing it. I don't have not making this deal more attractive to Giannis.

Maybe they had really boxed themselves this far, but Milwaukee is a legit contender, I would have liked them to push more in if spending that 1st. Instead, the first was used to alos dump Augustin and get a great 2nd back. Valuewise that is solid. Directionally? Feels like if Philly instead of adding talent uses a pair of 2nds to drop deadweight salary and calls it a tradedeadline; a pulled punch that shouldn't have been held back.

[giannis and 1]

So to be clear here the picks as it sits today is #26 for #33. Then they pushed the 22 pick to 23? I had Augustine as awful money.

7 spots as of today and pushing a pick back 1 year for Tucker and Kuruks? I woulda asked for House, but this is the kind of shifty move a team like Milwaukee needed to make to improve the front court. Watch out for the Tucker resurgence.

And with Craig portion, totally out of the tax right?

I have this as a definite win for the Bucks.

With the deal official, it confirms the Bucks are $1.2M under the tax as I surmised. So again RPG gets credit for being the first to note what a good deal this was for the Bucks. Still can't believe so many people don't like it. Just such a minimal cost to pay to get a very useful player who will close games, dump Augustin's money creating flexibility for next year, getting a decent TPE, and getting out of the tax--millions of dollars in real money.

Good deal for both teams, but especially the Bucks.

Once again I will happily admit that you are right about something Bucks related.

[giannis and 1]

So, the Bucks convinced Giannis they would pay the tax so he could re-sign, then promptly trade their last remaining first from now till the end of Stepien to dump their (non-Jrue) signings and get out of the tax? I will be hanging the Mission Accomplished banner, someone else get the punch and pie.

I mean I was convinced they intentionally hard-capped themselves so limit what they could spend so I'm not surprised at all about them getting out of tax. Had even proposed a few deals here that achieved that. I don't think Giannis cares about them ducking under the tax this year since it makes them better on the court and in theory frees up money to spend next year.

I mean they messed up the off-season badly. But this went a little way towards fixing it. I don't have not making this deal more attractive to Giannis.

Maybe they had really boxed themselves this far, but Milwaukee is a legit contender, I would have liked them to push more in if spending that 1st. Instead, the first was used to alos dump Augustin and get a great 2nd back. Valuewise that is solid. Directionally? Feels like if Philly instead of adding talent uses a pair of 2nds to drop deadweight salary and calls it a tradedeadline; a pulled punch that shouldn't have been held back.

We will see what happens with the next move they make. They need a guard through the buyout market or trade.

[letsgorockets]

I think both teams should be quite happy with this deal. Milwaukee gets a playoff contributor, Houston picks up an extra 1st. The only thing I don't understand is how Augustin could be considered such a bad contract. 2 more years at around $7 million a piece? Even if he doesn't play, that's sub MLE money for next season, then a nice expiring filler for trades the next year. Certainly not worth what he's paid, but just doesn't seem that bad to me.

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[kobe_vs_jordan]

I'm still underwhelmed that Tucker is the best they can do with an unprotected first. He is better than DJ but not sure he got much left in the tank for to be key in a playoff rotation . Pretty much put themselves in a corner having to pay to keep Tucker in the offseason since they used assets to get him.

[Prez]

I'm still underwhelmed that Tucker is the best they can do with an unprotected first. He is better than DJ but not sure he got much left in the tank for to be key in a playoff rotation . Pretty much put themselves in a corner having to pay to keep Tucker in the offseason since they used assets to get him.

I think you’re misunderstanding the trade here, they didn’t give up a new unprotected 1st. They just pushed off a 1st that they were already giving up from another transaction from 2022 to now 2023. They then swapped their 1st with Houston’s 2nd in this upcoming draft, which effectively will amount to dropping 5-8 spots in this draft. That for Tucker/Kurucs, dumping a bad multi-year contract for a bad player in Augustin, and opening up space to sign a couple buyout guys this year which they previously couldn’t with the hard cap.

imo it was a pretty creative trade setup from both sides and the value seems fair both ways.

[kingcong95]

I think both teams should be quite happy with this deal. Milwaukee gets a playoff contributor, Houston picks up an extra 1st. The only thing I don't understand is how Augustin could be considered such a bad contract. 2 more years at around $7 million a piece? Even if he doesn't play, that's sub MLE money for next season, then a nice expiring filler for trades the next year. Certainly not worth what he's paid, but just doesn't seem that bad to me.

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Giannis' supermax kicks in next year and that will plant them into the tax for years to come. Get out this year if they can, and it will save the owners a year of repeat penalties. If they think Augustin is replaceable, it doesn't matter whether he's on the roster or not next year because they will still be limited to the tax MLE to look for reinforcements. As for the expiring filler argument, they would have to package Augustin with picks or another player to trade for anyone of value, and they don't want to do that.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

I'm still underwhelmed that Tucker is the best they can do with an unprotected first. He is better than DJ but not sure he got much left in the tank for to be key in a playoff rotation . Pretty much put themselves in a corner having to pay to keep Tucker in the offseason since they used assets to get him.

I think you’re misunderstanding the trade here, they didn’t give up a new unprotected 1st. They just pushed off a 1st that they were already giving up from another transaction from 2022 to now 2023. They then swapped their 1st with Houston’s 2nd in this upcoming draft, which effectively will amount to dropping 5-8 spots in this draft. That for Tucker/Kurucs, dumping a bad multi-year contract for a bad player in Augustin, and opening up space to sign a couple buyout guys this year which they previously couldn’t with the hard cap.

imo it was a pretty creative trade setup from both sides and the value seems fair both ways.

I understand it. It's creative, just not high on betting on tucker to recover form and having to pay him in the offseason.

Creating a bad contract in the off season just have to create value to get off it makes me like the trade even less. Pending on who they get for a buyout could make the trade better from my view.

[Prez]

I'm still underwhelmed that Tucker is the best they can do with an unprotected first. He is better than DJ but not sure he got much left in the tank for to be key in a playoff rotation . Pretty much put themselves in a corner having to pay to keep Tucker in the offseason since they used assets to get him.

I think you’re misunderstanding the trade here, they didn’t give up a new unprotected 1st. They just pushed off a 1st that they were already giving up from another transaction from 2022 to now 2023. They then swapped their 1st with Houston’s 2nd in this upcoming draft, which effectively will amount to dropping 5-8 spots in this draft. That for Tucker/Kurucs, dumping a bad multi-year contract for a bad player in Augustin, and opening up space to sign a couple buyout guys this year which they previously couldn’t with the hard cap.

imo it was a pretty creative trade setup from both sides and the value seems fair both ways.

I understand it. It's creative, just not high on betting on tucker to recover form and having to pay him in the offseason.

Creating a bad contract in the off season just have to create value to get off it makes me like the trade even less. Pending on who they get for a buyout could make the trade better from my view.

I'm not sure I understand here, with the bolded are you referring to the Augustin contract? If so I'm not going to disagree, that was a bad move.

If we're judging just this individual move though I really don't see how the value is bad at all.

[shangrila]

I'm still underwhelmed that Tucker is the best they can do with an unprotected first. He is better than DJ but not sure he got much left in the tank for to be key in a playoff rotation . Pretty much put themselves in a corner having to pay to keep Tucker in the offseason since they used assets to get him.

I think you’re misunderstanding the trade here, they didn’t give up a new unprotected 1st. They just pushed off a 1st that they were already giving up from another transaction from 2022 to now 2023. They then swapped their 1st with Houston’s 2nd in this upcoming draft, which effectively will amount to dropping 5-8 spots in this draft. That for Tucker/Kurucs, dumping a bad multi-year contract for a bad player in Augustin, and opening up space to sign a couple buyout guys this year which they previously couldn’t with the hard cap.

imo it was a pretty creative trade setup from both sides and the value seems fair both ways.

It makes me wonder how much of this deal was constructed from the Milwaukee side. Given their fumbling in the offseason and Houston's GM being a Morey disciple (AFAIK) I'm curious if it was actually them that worked through the intricate details and Milwaukee just signed on the dotted line.

[letsgorockets]

I think both teams should be quite happy with this deal. Milwaukee gets a playoff contributor, Houston picks up an extra 1st. The only thing I don't understand is how Augustin could be considered such a bad contract. 2 more years at around $7 million a piece? Even if he doesn't play, that's sub MLE money for next season, then a nice expiring filler for trades the next year. Certainly not worth what he's paid, but just doesn't seem that bad to me.

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Giannis' supermax kicks in next year and that will plant them into the tax for years to come. Get out this year if they can, and it will save the owners a year of repeat penalties. If they think Augustin is replaceable, it doesn't matter whether he's on the roster or not next year because they will still be limited to the tax MLE to look for reinforcements. As for the expiring filler argument, they would have to package Augustin with picks or another player to trade for anyone of value, and they don't want to do that.

I get that for tax purposes it was nice for Milwaukee to get off the contract, but it's still not an objectivity bad contract. It was just a conditionally bad contract to them. Some of the posters here seem to be relieved to have dumped him like he's a REALLY bad contact. Just struck me as odd, Eric Gordon has a way worse contract but I wouldn't be happy to see Houston give up a late 1st (or any picks at all) to dump him.

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[VegasKuehl]

I think both teams should be quite happy with this deal. Milwaukee gets a playoff contributor, Houston picks up an extra 1st. The only thing I don't understand is how Augustin could be considered such a bad contract. 2 more years at around $7 million a piece? Even if he doesn't play, that's sub MLE money for next season, then a nice expiring filler for trades the next year. Certainly not worth what he's paid, but just doesn't seem that bad to me.

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Giannis' supermax kicks in next year and that will plant them into the tax for years to come. Get out this year if they can, and it will save the owners a year of repeat penalties. If they think Augustin is replaceable, it doesn't matter whether he's on the roster or not next year because they will still be limited to the tax MLE to look for reinforcements. As for the expiring filler argument, they would have to package Augustin with picks or another player to trade for anyone of value, and they don't want to do that.

I get that for tax purposes it was nice for Milwaukee to get off the contract, but it's still not an objectivity bad contract. It was just a conditionally bad contract to them. Some of the posters here seem to be relieved to have dumped him like he's a REALLY bad contact. Just struck me as odd, Eric Gordon has a way worse contract but I wouldn't be happy to see Houston give up a late 1st (or any picks at all) to dump him.

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From Houstons standpoint, of course they shouldn't be trading a late 1st round pick to get out of a contract in their current situation. Can you really compare the Bucks situation and say it's the same as Houstons? When you're tanking there's no reason to get out of a contract, you should be looking to add bad contracts for picks, which is what this trade did.