Tank World Order (2.0)

[Steelo Green]

I feel bad for those who were saying the Hawks would be better than us and got laughed at and roasted.

In the end they are now starting to peak and find their footing with a myriad of talent in the front and backcourt. The same is happening with Charlotte.

For all the "COVID and injuries" issues people can blame, the Hawks have had Capella, Hunter, Reddish, Bogdan, Gallo out for big stretches and now they are really hitting their stride. They have good wins against good teams as well.

[Ranger One]

Siakam is the perfect tank commander imo. He's extremely weak and fragile mentally. Any kind of pressure or any kind of setback and he crumbles like wet tissue paper. He is not an Alpha.

[Morse Code]

Evan Mobley just has that it factor. So much skill.

[Morse Code]

I feel bad for those who were saying the Hawks would be better than us and got laughed at and roasted.

In the end they are now starting to peak and find their footing with a myriad of talent in the front and backcourt. The same is happening with Charlotte.

For all the "COVID and injuries" issues people can blame, the Hawks have had Capella, Hunter, Reddish, Bogdan, Gallo out for big stretches and now they are really hitting their stride. They have good wins against good teams as well.

Yeah I think it was NotMyKawhi that posted that, and everyone jumped down his throat over it. I defended the thought process and ppl called me crazy too. Now look at the direction of each team. Too many homers around here lately with too much bias to accept what we are.

[VanWest82]

I'm officially in for this season. It's time. Trade Kyle and Norm, and sit Fred, OG, and Siakam as much as possible. Draft BPA in the top 10 and use our cap space wisely in FA to find undervalued guys. This can be a quick rebuild.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I would preach patience with any sort of rebuild. Getting a top 5 pick doesn't magically solve everything and you can find yourself in a position where you are scrambling to build something meaningful and making team building mistakes (The Bryan Colangelo). Before this is brought up for the millionth time, no one is advocating for a 10 year rebuild and following the Process model.

I think Cade will have a fairly sizeable impact as a rookie, but even for him (not to mention the others in the top 5) its likely their 3rd year when they are truly ready to become impact guys.

You want to facilitate your prized rookies development, but don't want to put them in a position where they are asked to do too much. By the same token you can't have them just be tertiary guys with no ability to test themselves.

Theoretically speaking a rookie would move into an enviable situation with cap space and FVV, OG and Siakam around him, but I'd look at Luka's situation his first year and the tendencies of Nick Nurse. The first half of Lukas rookie year it was clear he had to be the guy, but you had established vets already there and it was an awkward balancing act. They purposely jettisoned a couple guys and made the commitment to Luka by the midway point to facilitate his development. Basically shifting their entire timeline and team building philosophy to him. We are well versed in how Nurse plays young kids so he has to be better in that respect.

Now I dont think any rookie coming in this year will have a Luka impact their first year, but using that cap space on a centre and adding the top 5 pick to this core isn't necessarily the right move longterm. OG is an easy piece to keep on the team, but depending who you draft it may be beneficial to scour the market for FVV/Siakam deals and consider another building season. This is why getting assets for Norm, Lowry and Boucher is essential. The timeline of the team should move towards the incoming rookie, not for FVV and Siakam. OG is young enough he fits any timeline.

[VanWest82]

I would preach patience with any sort of rebuild. Getting a top 5 pick doesn't magically solve everything and you can find yourself in a position where you are scrambling to build something meaningful and making team building mistakes (The Bryan Colangelo). Before this is brought up for the millionth time, no one is advocating for a 10 year rebuild and following the Process model.

I think Cade will have a fairly sizeable impact as a rookie, but even for him (not to mention the others in the top 5) its likely their 3rd year when they are truly ready to become impact guys.

You want to facilitate your prized rookies development, but don't want to put them in a position where they are asked to do too much. By the same token you can't have them just be tertiary guys with no ability to test themselves.

Theoretically speaking a rookie would move into an enviable situation with cap space and FVV, OG and Siakam around him, but I'd look at Luka's situation his first year and the tendencies of Nick Nurse. The first half of Lukas rookie year it was clear he had to be the guy, but you had established vets already there and it was an awkward balancing act. They purposely jettisoned a couple guys and made the commitment to Luka by the midway point to facilitate his development. Basically shifting their entire timeline and team building philosophy to him. We are well versed in how Nurse plays young kids so he has to be better in that respect.

Now I dont think any rookie coming in this year will have a Luka impact their first year, but using that cap space on a centre and adding the top 5 pick to this core isn't necessarily the right move longterm. OG is an easy piece to keep on the team, but depending who you draft it may be beneficial to scour the market for FVV/Siakam deals and consider another building season. This is why getting assets for Norm, Lowry and Boucher is essential. The timeline of the team should move towards the incoming rookie, not for FVV and Siakam. OG is young enough he fits any timeline.

I don't understand why we have to pick now. Given the players we have under contract plus our cap space we can try and win next year while still maintaining flexibility for later. It's just about making smart moves.

Trying to be bad with winning players like Fred, OG, and Pascal on long-term deals doesn't make sense despite the results so far this year. Further, trading those guys at their relative low point in value (i.e. right after they signed big deals) doesn't make much sense either.

Raps have a lot of bullets in their chamber this off season, especially if we get something near term back from Norm/Kyle trades. You develop young talent with winning habits and winning basketball, so we should always be trying to do that. It makes no sense to pre-emptively be looking at a multi-year tank / rebuilding scenario if you don't have to, and especially not when you don't have the assets to kick start it like OKC did with the PG/Russ trades or Houston with the Harden trade.

[Psubs]

I'm officially in for this season. It's time. Trade Kyle and Norm, and sit Fred, OG, and Siakam as much as possible. Draft BPA in the top 10 and use our cap space wisely in FA to find undervalued guys. This can be a quick rebuild.

Just like Golden State. If Klay didn't get hurt again they would be back to being top 4 in the West.

[VanWest82]

I'm officially in for this season. It's time. Trade Kyle and Norm, and sit Fred, OG, and Siakam as much as possible. Draft BPA in the top 10 and use our cap space wisely in FA to find undervalued guys. This can be a quick rebuild.

Just like Golden State. If Klay didn't get hurt again they would be back to being top 4 in the West.

Or even someone like Charlotte. They get LaMelo and sign Hayward, and now they're a playoff team. Presumably we could be better than that as we're starting out with better players and could find better deals than Hayward for 30M. Plus we'd have whatever we get from Kyle/Norm. Just have to make smart moves and hope more of them hit like they have in the past.

[seanbig]

Unless we get covid again the tank is probably dead

[720]

They should sit Norm and Lowry until the deadline. Just in case they get injured.

[2muchTLC]

masai doesnt need to do anything tbh this team is already in the lottery and edging up the draft by the day

We are, but if we're hoping for a higher pick, we need to fall into the bottom seven.

I think we are in the top 7, top 3 is probably too far as those teams arent going to win any more

[720]

masai doesnt need to do anything tbh this team is already in the lottery and edging up the draft by the day

We are, but if we're hoping for a higher pick, we need to fall into the bottom seven.

I think we are in the top 7, top 3 is probably too far as those teams arent going to win any more

Not likely but pick 5 or 6 should be our goal (both spots have huge jump in odds compared to 7-9). Cavs have been winning more games lately. Wizards had a rough schedule but after their game against the nets this Sunday their schedule REALLY starts to ease up.

If we trade Lowry and Norm I see this team possibly getting 5 or 6.

[beanbag]

They should sit Norm and Lowry until the deadline. Just in case they get injured.

Lol, this is a totally realistic thing I'm sure they're considering.

[720]

They should sit Norm and Lowry until the deadline. Just in case they get injured.

Lol, this is a totally realistic thing I'm sure they're considering.

I mean, John Wall got injured walking up the stairs in his home. Anything can happen. If we're trading one or both of these guys then might as well sit them. There is only 3 games between the deadline anyways.

[beanbag]

They should sit Norm and Lowry until the deadline. Just in case they get injured.

Lol, this is a totally realistic thing I'm sure they're considering.

I mean, John Wall got injured walking up the stairs in his home. Anything can happen. If we're trading one or both of these guys then might as well sit them. There is only 3 games between the deadline anyways.

And if it happens, I'll pay pal you 10 grand. It is not happening, whether you think it should or not.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I don't understand why we have to pick now. Given the players we have under contract plus our cap space we can try and win next year while still maintaining flexibility for later. It's just about making smart moves.

Trying to be bad with winning players like Fred, OG, and Pascal on long-term deals doesn't make sense despite the results so far this year. Further, trading those guys at their relative low point in value (i.e. right after they signed big deals) doesn't make much sense either.

Raps have a lot of bullets in their chamber this off season, especially if we get something near term back from Norm/Kyle trades. You develop young talent with winning habits and winning basketball, so we should always be trying to do that. It makes no sense to pre-emptively be looking at a multi-year tank / rebuilding scenario if you don't have to, and especially not when you don't have the assets to kick start it like OKC did with the PG/Russ trades or Houston with the Harden trade.

This year its about being as bad as you can. Going forward it doesn't have to be any kind of concerted effort to lose, its essentially up to the team.

The reason you have to choose is because you are going to be on the timeline of an incoming 19 year old kid. When he is ready to be that alpha guys like FVV and Siakam will be 29/30 going into the last year of their deals. Do you pay big money to them past their athletic primes, trade them or let them go? Not to say it can't work retaining both, but ideally you build the core of your team around the age of your incoming star then fill around with vets as needed. The star is the important part, the secondary pieces are much more fungible.

With a Norm, Lowry and Boucher deal you should be able to garner a lot of assets. 3 first round picks? Maybe two C+ or B level prospects? I think FVV or Siakam have plenty of value going into the off season. Is that another 2 picks and likely a usable player in return for salary considerations? If a player that fits the timeline is available in free agency this year cool, if not weaponize the cap space and get more assets. You could also sign a vet player on a short term deal to help the team on court and potentially be a deadline rental for someone else. Basically, you may not get a Jrue Holiday type package in one single deal, but with all these deals you will create a war chest of assets which you can use in any way you want.

Going into next season you have the high lottery pick from this year (maybe an extra prospect or two depending on the deals you pull from previous paragraph), OG, Flynn, one of Siakam/FVV and then you fill out the rest with any prospects you have gotten back in the deals from before and any FA signings you make. You go into next season competitive and the team on the floor dictates what happens. Because you have created a war chest of assets you don't have to worry where the pick lands. If the team struggles you lean towards the draft, if they are super competitive this is where organic growth actually works because you are being led by a young core and have picks to spare.

This is why a lot of people are so uneasy right now. We are a week away from the trade deadline and no one has a single clue where this team is headed.

[720]

Lol, this is a totally realistic thing I'm sure they're considering.

I mean, John Wall got injured walking up the stairs in his home. Anything can happen. If we're trading one or both of these guys then might as well sit them. There is only 3 games between the deadline anyways.

And if it happens, I'll pay pal you 10 grand. It is not happening, whether you think it should or not.

It's not about the odds of getting injured. It's about being precautionary just in case.

[beanbag]

I mean, John Wall got injured walking up the stairs in his home. Anything can happen. If we're trading one or both of these guys then might as well sit them. There is only 3 games between the deadline anyways.

And if it happens, I'll pay pal you 10 grand. It is not happening, whether you think it should or not.

It's not about the odds of getting injured. It's about being precautionary just in case.

It is about, "Is this a thing that is realistically being considered by management?"

That is ALL this is about. I am not talking about what should happen, I am telling you Masai and Bobby are not considering this directive.

[720]

And if it happens, I'll pay pal you 10 grand. It is not happening, whether you think it should or not.

It's not about the odds of getting injured. It's about being precautionary just in case.

It is about, "Is this a thing that is realistically being considered by management?"

That is ALL this is about. I am not talking about what should happen, I am telling you Masai and Bobby are not considering this directive.

When did I say they are considering it? lol way to pick a battle.