Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[TheFinishSniper]

I dont wanna Ball nowhere near Chicago, but even I will admit he is miles better than any combination of White, Sato and 2nd round picks at PG. We gotten to the point where this mfers actually made me neutral to Ball in Chicago.

[HomoSapien]

Racist because I don’t like Balls character or family? Are you serious ? You do realize a lot of people do not like them right? Have you seen his fathers interviews? Has nothing to do with his race. Besides his mother is white and father black, why the F are you bringing up race for? What a stupid post.

Again, you’re judging someone character and his family by the way he talks. That’s subliminal racism whether you know it or not. Two wrongs don’t make it a right. There are plenty of racists in this country and it doesn’t give you the right to be one in a public forum. Don’t be angry when someone calls you out for your nonsense. I’m perfectly fine with talking bball and Lonzo flaws.

Who said anything about the way he talks ? You’re an idiot.

Let's get this thread back on track. No more personal attacks, just report posts that are problematic moving forward.

[HomoSapien]

Once again - Lonzo's been playng with two guys who get ALL the defensive attention. In a way his situation is not unlike that of Patrick Williams playing with Zach, Lauri and Thad. If you can make weak side spot up 3's and cut now and then, you're gonna look pretty good.

Like any dude who's been overdribbling the ball since he was 5 years old, Lonzo probably wants a different role in his next team. The Bulls would be fools to give it to him.

Is that a good description of what Ball wants? I mean, yeah he's grown up hearing he's a star with the ball constantly in his hands, but for all that's said about him he's about as willing of a passer as they come. I don't know if he'll be as successful here as he is in NO, but I do think he will make things easier in particular for Lauri and PWill. I also think he'll make us significantly better just by not being a walking turnover threat like Coby.

[TheSuzerain]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

[jordanwilliams6]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

Graham sucks. He’s a career 37% shooter and his 3PT % is a lot worse than Lonzo’s. He can only play PG which limits his value. The attraction of Lonzo is that he has the ability to guard 1-3 and gives you of lot of flexibility to play with Coby or Zach, or even both at the same time.

[CaPiTanAK]

There are two different camps on this, though.

Camp A: Wants to bring in Lonzo and have Lauri - believes Lonzo will help Lauri.

Camp B: Wants to bring in Lonzo, then trade Lauri.

While I agree that it's probably a bad idea to pay both those guys (Camp A), I think Lonzo seems like he may actually be a good complementary piece with Zach (Camp B).

Camp B.

Same.

I'm all for acquiring the Lonzo Ball, and watch the firework on this team.

As for Lauri, $15-17 mil/yr is a decent price to pay. $20 mil/yr or higher is only reasonable if it's heavily incentivized.

I don't like to let talent walk for nothing especially if the person has a skill that's highly valued in the modern NBA.

[Darius Miles Davis]

I want Lonzo, and I'm willing to part with Coby or Lauri or a top 10 protected 2021 first rounder as the centerpiece of a trade to get him.

[HomoSapien]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

I was intrigued by Graham last year, but he's regressed quite a bit this season. Some players do better with the ball in their hands, and having to play with LaMelo might have thrown off his rhythm. That said, we know the following:

1.) With Ball's season-ending injury, it likely makes Graham unavailable for trade.

2.) Graham has played poorly this year, and through a 140 is an absurdly bad 37% shooter from the field (and a so-so 36% from down town).

Since Graham's probably not available right now, we can see if his play rebounds as he gets moved back into the primary ball-handling role. Next season, we can determine who's the better player to pursue during free-agency (if either). That said, acquiring Lonzo Ball at least allows us to closely evaluate him and figure out if he make our team better and is worth a long-term committment.

[CaPiTanAK]

Let me just get this straight. We have nothing to lose by trading either WCJ/Coby for Lonzo. If anything, we save about 6-7 mil next year from paying a net negative bum.

[TheSuzerain]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

Graham sucks. He’s a career 37% shooter and his 3PT % is a lot worse than Lonzo’s. He can only play PG which limits his value. The attraction of Lonzo is that he has the ability to guard 1-3 and gives you of lot of flexibility to play with Coby or Zach, or even both at the same time.

His 3pt% is not worse than Ball's. It's the same, and Lonzo is the one who gets to spot up next to Zion/Ingram. And Graham worries me less going forward as he has a consistent 80% FT%.

lol at ability to play with Coby being attractive. Completely irrelevant. The whole point of this exercise is replacing Coby's minutes altogether as that's an obvious way to improve the team.

[tunit213]

Wouldn't everyone agree offensively Ball is on par with what Sato is bringing this season. If it wasn't for those 2 4th qtr collapse vs the Spurs and Nuggets we would be 5-0 after the break. And this is disregarding the fact that Ball is the better defender, only 23, and isnt even close to his prime yet.

Ball/Lavine backcourt just makes sense. They cover each others weaknesses and there really is not a guard out there that can score like Lavine to pair with a player like Ball who has the hardest time creating his own shot. They compliment each other perfectly.

Lets get our backcourt of the future set (Ball/Lavine) add PAW, and now go out and find a legit big man. One step at a time.

[TheSuzerain]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

I was intrigued by Graham last year, but he's regressed quite a bit this season. Some players do better with the ball in their hands, and having to play with LaMelo might have thrown off his rhythm. That said, we know the following:

1.) With Ball's season-ending injury, it likely makes Graham unavailable for trade.

2.) Graham has played poorly this year, and through a 140 is an absurdly bad 37% shooter from the field (and a so-so 36% from down town).

Since Graham's probably not available right now, we can see if his play rebounds as he gets moved back into the primary ball-handling role. Next season, we can determine who's the better player to pursue during free-agency (if either). That said, acquiring Lonzo Ball at least allows us to closely evaluate him and figure out if he make our team better and is worth a long-term committment.

And yet Graham has easily the best +/- stats on the Hornets.

It's almost as if being a great passer/playmaker can make up for mediocre personal efficiency (see: Doncic, Luka).

[jordanwilliams6]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

Graham sucks. He’s a career 37% shooter and his 3PT % is a lot worse than Lonzo’s. He can only play PG which limits his value. The attraction of Lonzo is that he has the ability to guard 1-3 and gives you of lot of flexibility to play with Coby or Zach, or even both at the same time.

His 3pt% is not worse than Ball's. It's the same, and Lonzo is the one who gets to spot up next to Zion/Ingram. And Graham worries me less going forward as he has a consistent 80% FT%.

lol at ability to play with Coby being attractive. Completely irrelevant. The whole point of this exercise is replacing Coby's minutes altogether as that's an obvious way to improve the team.

Coby has obvious talent but it’s clear he isn’t a point guard. I see value in a 3 guard rotation of Zach, Lonzo & Coby coming off the bench. It allows Coby to play the majority of time off the ball and focus on being a bench scorer long term. I could see those guys playing 10 mins together during a game for short stretches as well. It’s not about meshing just the starting lineup, but the entire rotation.

[TheSuzerain]

Wouldn't everyone agree offensively Ball is on par with what Sato is bringing this season. If it wasn't for those 2 4th qtr collapse vs the Spurs and Nuggets we would be 5-0 after the break. And this is disregarding the fact that Ball is the better defender, only 23, and isnt even close to his prime yet.

Ball/Lavine backcourt just makes sense. They cover each others weaknesses and there really is not a guard out there that can score like Lavine to pair with a player like Ball who has the hardest time creating his own shot. They compliment each other perfectly.

I say lets get our backcourt of the future set and that to PAW. Now lets go out and find a legit big man. One step at a time.

The NBA doesn't really work like this anymore where you have a guard bad at playmaking/passing (Lavine) and a guard bad at self-creation (Lonzo) that you then turn around and call a perfectly complimentary backcourt.

You need threats on the floor.

[LateNight]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

I was intrigued by Graham last year, but he's regressed quite a bit this season. Some players do better with the ball in their hands, and having to play with LaMelo might have thrown off his rhythm. That said, we know the following:

1.) With Ball's season-ending injury, it likely makes Graham unavailable for trade.

2.) Graham has played poorly this year, and through a 140 is an absurdly bad 37% shooter from the field (and a so-so 36% from down town).

Since Graham's probably not available right now, we can see if his play rebounds as he gets moved back into the primary ball-handling role. Next season, we can determine who's the better player to pursue during free-agency (if either). That said, acquiring Lonzo Ball at least allows us to closely evaluate him and figure out if he make our team better and is worth a long-term committment.

And yet Graham has easily the best +/- stats on the Hornets.

It's almost as if being a great passer/playmaker can make up for mediocre personal efficiency (see: Doncic, Luka).

I like Devonte too, by the way. Would be happy with him on the Bulls

[TheSuzerain]

Graham sucks. He’s a career 37% shooter and his 3PT % is a lot worse than Lonzo’s. He can only play PG which limits his value. The attraction of Lonzo is that he has the ability to guard 1-3 and gives you of lot of flexibility to play with Coby or Zach, or even both at the same time.

His 3pt% is not worse than Ball's. It's the same, and Lonzo is the one who gets to spot up next to Zion/Ingram. And Graham worries me less going forward as he has a consistent 80% FT%.

lol at ability to play with Coby being attractive. Completely irrelevant. The whole point of this exercise is replacing Coby's minutes altogether as that's an obvious way to improve the team.

Coby has obvious talent but it’s clear he isn’t a point guard. I see value in a 3 guard rotation of Zach, Lonzo & Coby coming off the bench. It allows Coby to play the majority of time off the ball and focus on being a bench scorer long term. I could see those guys playing 10 mins together during a game for short stretches as well. It’s not about meshing just the starting lineup, but the entire rotation.

I would argue that Coby has very little in the way of actual talent.

I'd also say that even the optimistic 6th man projections for Coby these days (Lou Will, Crawford, etc.) is an extremely overrated type of player historically.

[TheSuzerain]

I was intrigued by Graham last year, but he's regressed quite a bit this season. Some players do better with the ball in their hands, and having to play with LaMelo might have thrown off his rhythm. That said, we know the following:

1.) With Ball's season-ending injury, it likely makes Graham unavailable for trade.

2.) Graham has played poorly this year, and through a 140 is an absurdly bad 37% shooter from the field (and a so-so 36% from down town).

Since Graham's probably not available right now, we can see if his play rebounds as he gets moved back into the primary ball-handling role. Next season, we can determine who's the better player to pursue during free-agency (if either). That said, acquiring Lonzo Ball at least allows us to closely evaluate him and figure out if he make our team better and is worth a long-term committment.

And yet Graham has easily the best +/- stats on the Hornets.

It's almost as if being a great passer/playmaker can make up for mediocre personal efficiency (see: Doncic, Luka).

I like Devonte too, by the way. Would be happy with him on the Bulls

It just seems like better asset management to me if we're trying to win next year.

Graham costs less and gives you as much or more. Without any sort of media circus (which isn't really Lonzo's fault but hey).

[TheSuzerain]

Let me just get this straight. We have nothing to lose by trading either WCJ/Coby for Lonzo. If anything, we save about 6-7 mil next year from paying a net negative bum.

In theory, you're right.

But trading them for Lonzo would make it very likely that we're handing Lonzo a large second contract. That's what people are skeptical of.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Point guards or combo guards new ideas if Ball is not aquired.
Stop gap Rubio/G.Hill/E.Payton(2 round or Hutch)/Ish Smith
Reclamation projects Frank Nikitlina (good fit), Aron Holiday (this is the guy)
Veterans John Wall (? swing) Isiah Thomas, Corey Joseph, Rondo, Patty Mills (ok)
Youngins from the bench type Jalen Brunson (ok) Graham.
Euroleague Mike James ex Cska without team because personal reasons (contract determenation, trip to family member funeral in States ).
1. Aron Holiday for Valentine,Hutchinson and 2 round pick.
2. Hutchinson for Nikitlina.
3. 2 rp, Felicio,Hutchinson for Patty Mills.

[HomoSapien]

Is Lonzo Ball going to be more expensive than Devonte Graham? Surely yes in terms of trade cost and their next contract.

Is Lonzo Ball a better PG than Devonte Graham? I'm not convinced of this. Graham is the better passer and more reliable shooter at the cost of defense.

I think it's important to compare Ball at actual realistic alternatives at PG rather than just comparing him to Coby White which is obviously going to make him look good (as it would any NBA PG).

I was intrigued by Graham last year, but he's regressed quite a bit this season. Some players do better with the ball in their hands, and having to play with LaMelo might have thrown off his rhythm. That said, we know the following:

1.) With Ball's season-ending injury, it likely makes Graham unavailable for trade.

2.) Graham has played poorly this year, and through a 140 is an absurdly bad 37% shooter from the field (and a so-so 36% from down town).

Since Graham's probably not available right now, we can see if his play rebounds as he gets moved back into the primary ball-handling role. Next season, we can determine who's the better player to pursue during free-agency (if either). That said, acquiring Lonzo Ball at least allows us to closely evaluate him and figure out if he make our team better and is worth a long-term commitment.

And yet Graham has easily the best +/- stats on the Hornets.

It's almost as if being a great passer/playmaker can make up for mediocre personal efficiency (see: Doncic, Luka).

I'm not against him or anything, but as I said, he's not available today. You were the one talking about realistic alternatives, but right now he's not one. So why not take a flyer on the guy that's actually available?. Simulataneously, we learn more about Graham as he gets a second shot as the lead ball-handler on a team contending for a playoff spot.

Re: His plus/minus stats, I'm not a fan of discussing those without proper context. I haven't seen enough Hornet games this season to comment on that, but I will say that often times +/- is a byproduct of what lineup you get to play with. For instance, on our team, Zach's +/- is 10th on the roster. Why? Because he's been forced to primarily play with young players who are still learning how to play good basketball. The guys behind him include Lauri, Coby, Patrick Williams, and Carter --- all players who have started the majority of this season.