picko wrote:Actually, yes.
They reflect past information adjusted for major trades / free agency moves. Precisely what I said.
I understand the need to justify your analysis. But unfortunately it was a waste of your time, a waste of mine and a waste of everyone else's too. Pre-season betting markets just aren't very informative.
Also, if you think the Cavs were a 'superteam' (they averaged fewer than 53-wins a season across four-years) then perhaps you aren't using a very useful definition of 'superteam'. Just a thought.
Nope you are wrong. The pre-season odds reflect the team's raw talents, so if Lebron's really on MJ's level he should be able to win every year when he was in championship window like MJ did with the Bulls(barring injuries, which we can give him a pass in 2015 maybe). Ever since he left Cleveland, the only year that his team was not in championship window is 2019. He only managed 4 out of the 9 rings since he colluded in Miami 2010. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why given one of the most talented rosters in the league, MJ won 100% of the time while Lebron managed less than 50%.
And the Cavs were absolutely a superteam from 2015-2017, he teamed up with two superstars that were the best players of their old teams in the previous season. Just because they failed to win as many games as other superteams doesnt mean they are not a superteam. Again you are using regular season record as indicator, then explain to me why the superteam Warriors only won 67 games in 2017 while the previous year they won 73? And why did the 73 wins Warriors struggle against 55 wins Thunder? A better question is, why did Lebron's Cavs underperform in regular season so they appeared as underdogs coming into the finals?
tmorgan wrote:OP, did you really just call LeBron’s style “ball dominant” in a comparison to Jordan? C’mon man. Yes, LeBron is essentially a large point guard in the playoffs, but unless you think every point guard is automatically “ball dominant”, your take is absurd. This whole thread is craziness, and I’m one that still takes Jordan over LeBron if I’m building a team to win championships. This silliness is not the reason.
Oh, and another thing: everyone’s numbers go down when they move down the totem pole on a new team. LeBron didn’t make Love or Bosh worse, they just accepted lesser roles. Do you think Jordan made Ron Harper terrible, too? He went from scoring 20 a game to scoring 8 a game on the Bulls. Jordan must be a terrible person to play with, eh? Again, c’mon man... think about what you are saying.
Well MJ was ball-dominant in his earlier years too, he averaged 32/8/8 in a season and the team didnt make it far in the playoffs. MJ learned that he couldnt win NBA titles with this playing style, and when Pippen improved into an all-star player he stopped being ball-dominant and focused more on being the finisher while Pippen ran the point. Since then, the Bulls became invincible in playoffs.
MJ can be ball-dominant when needed, and can play off-ball when needed. Lebron has to always use a ball-dominant playing style since he is not a threat without the ball in his hands. This is a deficiency in his skillset, since unlike MJ, Lebron doesnt have a reliable jumper/mid-range shot. There is a reason why Lebron seems unfit with any teammates who need the ball in their hands to be effective, ie. Dwayne Wade and Isaiah Thomas.
Of course its quite often when players join up and make a better team, their stats go down. Even KD and Curry both accepted lesser roles in the Warriors superteam. The difference is that MJ's Bulls were dominant in both regular season and playoffs, completing another 3-peat Bulls dynasty. On the other hand, Bosh/Love accepted lesser roles and sacrificed their stats, but the team aint nowhere near as dominant as MJ's Bulls, even becoming underdogs in most finals series.
And even worse, Bosh/Love ended up being the scapegoats for the team's underachievement, some fans were arguing that Lebron would've had more rings had they played better. So why were they unable to play better, and why they had to play so much better for Lebron to win more rings?