NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

scrabbarista · Post #121 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:06 am

Maybe the weirdest thing - statistically - about Jokic's season is how few free throws he shoots: just 5.0 attempts per game, 34th in the league. There have been MVP's who shot fewer (e.g., Nash - let's leave aside whether he deserved the Award), but I doubt anyone has ever been as dominant or as efficient as Jokic on so few attempts.

LesGrossman · Post #122 » by **LesGrossman** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:11 am

I find it almost disrespectful that some guys argue Jokic is #1 candidate "because Embiid, LeBron, KD, Kawhi are missing games". I think Jokic outperformed each of them soundly (closest one being Embiid, but his team seems to be just fine without him) when they were playing. This asterisking is unneccessary.

scrabbarista · Post #123 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:22 am

The historical list of players to be top-five in four of the five main stats has got to be zero.

The only seasons I know to be in the top ten in four out of five are 1989 Hakeem Olajuwon, and 2017 and 2018 Westbrook. I may have missed someone, but top five is definitely absurd.

Mickey8 · Post #124 » by **Mickey8** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:50 am

scrabbarista wrote:Maybe the weirdest thing - statistically - about Jokic's season is how few free throws he shoots: just 5.0 attempts per game, 34th in the league. There have been MVP's who shot fewer (e.g., Nash - let's leave aside whether he deserved the Award), but I doubt anyone has ever been as dominant or as efficient as Jokic on so few attempts.

Because he gets no respect from the refs, its obvious, just take the look at his highlights , at least two and one's per game highlight that refs refused to call r, but he's getting pushed, grabbed etc. by defenders regularly and they refused to call fouls against him, he should have at least 6,7 fts a game but it is what its, the way he was treated in the Western Conference finals, tells you everything.

DutchManDanFan · Post #125 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:54 am

scrabbarista wrote:Jokic is having one of the greatest regular seasons in NBA history.

He's currently:

2nd in steals
3rd in assists
4th in points
5th in rebounds

All-time, he's:

1st in PER
3rd in BPM
10th in WS/48

Among those three stats, his average all-time rank is 4.7th place - tied with 2009 LeBron James for the highest of all-time.

Per game he's 6th, 6th, 9th and 8th. Still very good.

hobbyist · Post #126 » by **hobbyist** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:19 pm

scrabbarista wrote:The historical list of players to be top-five in four of the five main stats has got to be zero.

I think the only season to be in the top ten in four out of five might be 1989 Hakeem Olajuwon. I may have missed someone, but top five is definitely absurd.

I think Westbrook did it two times in a row,16-17 and 17-18.

scrabbarista · Post #127 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:33 pm

hobbyist wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:The historical list of players to be top-five in four of the five main stats has got to be zero.

I think the only season to be in the top ten in four out of five might be 1989 Hakeem Olajuwon. I may have missed someone, but top five is definitely absurd.

I think Westbrook did it two times in a row,16-17 and 17-18.

Yeah, I looked him up forty minutes ago, but couldn't get to my PC until now. He was top ten, like Olajuwon. No one has ever been top five, like Jokic is now. Westbrook was also 1st and 4th in turnovers those two seasons and playing with an astronomical USG% (I think 1st and 2nd in the league those two seasons; Jokic is 20th) - not to mention WB's (to be generous) alleged stat-padding. I'll edit my previous comment.

Marrrcuss · Post #128 » by **Marrrcuss** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:03 pm

So his 29% shooting night convinced you?

I think we ALL have way too many narratives and biased going into our picks. Im just not a fan of the award any more.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #129 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:10 pm

the way the lakers have played the last two games, it's clearly lebron. lebron went like 10-1 with the same group that has been blown out the last two games and looks like he worst team in the league.

NirvanaFC · Post #130 » by **NirvanaFC** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:21 pm

Imagine the precedence that would be set if the league gave MVP to someone who FORCED a trade during the season

BrooklynDynasty · Post #131 » by **BrooklynDynasty** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:24 pm

it's still James harden. even when the shooting is off, dishing 17 assists in a road win in Portland without kd or ky? one game out of best record in the east? Damn.

James
Edward
Harden

TravisScott55 · Post #132 » by **TravisScott55** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:25 pm

I guess Jokic by default.

Marrrcuss · Post #133 » by **Marrrcuss** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:35 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:the way the lakers have played the last two games, it's clearly lebron. lebron went like 10-1 with the same group that has been blown out the last two games and looks like he worst team in the league.

The difference has been night and day but i imagine the same thing would happen with Denver. Meanwhile, Philly can stay above ground.

shi-woo · Post #134 » by **shi-woo** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:35 pm

Jokic is just on another level this year. Watching a Nugget game, you can't help but notice how he has his hand in every single play throughout the game. He just does everything for that team, and from the Center spot. I honestly haven't seen an offensive engine like this since Steve Nash and the Suns.

Harden I think is the best player in the NBA, and has been for a few years now, so him putting on a show and carrying a team should be shocking to NO ONE. The dude has done it every year of his prime. The East is a cake walk for the Harden's, LeBron's, and Kawhii's of the NBA.

Right now though Jokic is putting up crazy counting stats too, giving you 27/11/9 on near 50/40/90. He leads the Nuggets in all major counting stats, except blocks, leads in 3pnt%, FG%, and both OFF and DEF rtg.

The Nuggets are clearly less talented then the teams ahead of them in the standings, but Jokic makes them a threat every game. Jokic has had to cover up for the lose of Grant and Plumlee, as well as the depreciation of Millsap and Harris. He keeps that team consistently humming, even when Murray is on a cold shooting streak.

It's Jokic's to lose right now for the incredible stats, and the fact that he is doing the most with less compared to anyone else in the conversation.

gottamakeit · Post #135 » by **gottamakeit** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:15 pm

BrooklynDynasty wrote:it's still James harden. even when the shooting is off, dishing 17 assists in a road win in Portland without kd or ky? one game out of best record in the east? Damn.

James
Edward
Harden

That early-season strip club conditioning is really paying off.

Kurtz · Post #136 » by **Kurtz** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:24 pm

BrooklynDynasty wrote:it's still James harden. even when the shooting is off, dishing 17 assists in a road win in Portland without kd or ky? one game out of best record in the east? Damn.

James
Edward
Harden

Harden also shot 7/24. I'm pretty sure Jokic hasn't shot that poorly this year - or likely in several years.

scrabbarista · Post #137 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:34 pm

Kurtz wrote:
BrooklynDynasty wrote:it's still James harden. even when the shooting is off, dishing 17 assists in a road win in Portland without kd or ky? one game out of best record in the east? Damn.

James
Edward
Harden

Harden also shot 7/24. I'm pretty sure Jokic hasn't shot that poorly this year - or likely in several years.

It's easy enough to check. I just did. Jokic hasn't shot that bad from the field in a single game this season. I didn't check for previous seasons, because this is the '21 MVP thread.

Adam Stern · Post #138 » by **Adam Stern** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:42 pm

James Harden may be making his most compelling case for MVP yet.
And that's really saying something for a guy who has literally been at the top of MVP voting for nearly a decade.

Right now it's Jokic, Harden, then everybody else. If the Nuggets fall any further away from a top 4 seed that could tank Jokic's chances.

TheFire · Post #139 » by **TheFire** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:53 pm

More media disrespect against Jokic. How are Lillard and Giannis ahead of Jokic? Jokic winning the MVP would be a nightmare outcome for ESPN.

Watch on YouTube

#searching

Watch on YouTube

Papi_swav · Post #140 » by **Papi_swav** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:26 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:Is James Harden. That is it, that is all. KD has missed most of the year and Kyrie takes games off when he feels like it but Harden has elevated and kept this Nets team by the top of the standings. Now with Lebron down for some time and Embiid as well I think Harden is the clear cut MVP if he finishes the season the way he's been playing. The guy is just an elite offensive player as a scorer and passer. Words cannot express how spectacular this guy is.

Why don't you make a poll instead of shoving your opinion down people's throats by opening a thread like this? And why don't you use the stickied MVP topic instead of opening a new topic? Because you don't like the poll results and the arguments over there? Nobody's buying what you're selling, deal with it.

wow u sound triggered :lol:

Who be's the MVPs?