Stein/KOC - Heat most interested in Kyle, 76ers/clippers also interested

[gerrit4]

The one thing about Robinson is that he's an RFA, which means we control the market a bit more on him. In theory, shooters always have value because every team needs shooting (I say "in theory," because I said the exact same thing about Jason Kapono when we signed him).

That said, needing to pay Robinson probably eliminates our cap space this summer. So Herro is much more valuable because Herro will still be on his rookie deal. A trade of Lowry & Norm for Herro & Precious (with expiring) gets a scorer, a big, AND cap space to fill out the roster.

Realistically, with this core (Fred, OG, Pascal), we're always going to need depth to be a good team. We can't survive with only 6 good players. Our way to that next season is to acquire cheap talent (draft picks, players on rookie contracts), and have some cap space to fill out the roster.

[Rapsobsessed7]

The one thing about Robinson is that he's an RFA, which means we control the market a bit more on him. In theory, shooters always have value because every team needs shooting (I say "in theory," because I said the exact same thing about Jason Kapono when we signed him).

That said, needing to pay Robinson probably eliminates our cap space this summer. So Herro is much more valuable because Herro will still be on his rookie deal. A trade of Lowry & Norm for Herro & Precious (with expiring) gets a scorer, a big, AND cap space to fill out the roster.

Realistically, with this core (Fred, OG, Pascal), we're always going to need depth to be a good team. We can't survive with only 6 good players. Our way to that next season is to acquire cheap talent (draft picks, players on rookie contracts), and have some cap space to fill out the roster.

I agree. The issue though with Norm & Lowry being traded is matching salary with Miami.

Dragic (buyout) + Iguodala (buyout) + Herro + Prince gets you there but I would want more value coming back if norm is being sent the other way (ie a pick).

[Pointgod]

Miami is the frontrunner for Kyle Lowry. Miami is limited with what it can offer in draft compensation, but rival executives believe a Robinson-headlined deal will be more appealing than anything Philadelphia, the Heat’s competition for Lowry, can offer.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/03/24/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-latest-buzz-intel

If Robinson is headlining the deal than others offers must be complete ****. I’d rather not have Robinson because we’d run into the same issue of having to pay him like Norm. If we can’t get Herro, send Robinson to a third team for a 1st round pick, give me Precious and a couple of second rounds picks and I’m content

[ATLTimekeeper]

Miami is the frontrunner for Kyle Lowry. Miami is limited with what it can offer in draft compensation, but rival executives believe a Robinson-headlined deal will be more appealing than anything Philadelphia, the Heat’s competition for Lowry, can offer.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/03/24/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-latest-buzz-intel

If Robinson is headlining the deal than others offers must be complete ****. I’d rather not have Robinson because we’d run into the same issue of having to pay him like Norm. If we can’t get Herro, send Robinson to a third team for a 1st round pick, give me Precious and a couple of second rounds picks and I’m content

I'd probably do that, too, but the advantage is that Robinson is RFA and the team would be getting something else back for Norm in a trade. So, yes, the team gets worse and has to pay Robinson, but there's some versatility there that you wouldn't get with just signing Norm outright.

[Morris_Shatford]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

[mtcan]

The one thing about Robinson is that he's an RFA, which means we control the market a bit more on him. In theory, shooters always have value because every team needs shooting (I say "in theory," because I said the exact same thing about Jason Kapono when we signed him).

That said, needing to pay Robinson probably eliminates our cap space this summer. So Herro is much more valuable because Herro will still be on his rookie deal. A trade of Lowry & Norm for Herro & Precious (with expiring) gets a scorer, a big, AND cap space to fill out the roster.

Realistically, with this core (Fred, OG, Pascal), we're always going to need depth to be a good team. We can't survive with only 6 good players. Our way to that next season is to acquire cheap talent (draft picks, players on rookie contracts), and have some cap space to fill out the roster.

I agree. The issue though with Norm & Lowry being traded is matching salary with Miami.

Dragic (buyout) + Iguodala (buyout) + Herro + Prince gets you there but I would want more value coming back if norm is being sent the other way (ie a pick).

I sure hope Dragic and Iggy aren't simply bought out. Those guys have legit value on contending teams. How good would Dragic look on the Clippers or Iggy on the Nets?

Can you turn Dragic into Lou Williams, Pat Patterson (both expiring contracts) and Zubac (serviceable center with very good contract)?

Can you turn Iggy into Spencer Dinwiddie's player option and Nick Claxton or a 2nd round pick?

[mtcan]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

Definitely NOT Philly. They are capped to the gills.

Miami...off the top of my head would have like 20-something million in cap space. If Kyle really wants the Heat...he may need to take shave off that 50 million contract that he is rumoured to be looking for.

[Spida888]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

I believe Philly doesn't but Miami can make space, they have lots of expirings/team-options.

[DelAbbot]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

[mintsa]

Miami or Philly need to be able to guarantee Lowry that 50 mil extension or he ain’t going anywhere.....lol

[gerrit4]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

It's also likely that Lowry would re-sign with Philly if traded there, so Miami probably can't get Lowry in the offseason if they don't trade for him now.

[Morris_Shatford]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

Thanks for the link!

If I am reading this correctly the Heat would need to waive all team options and waive all their RFA cap holds (Nunn and Robinson) to create 28m?

[douggood]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

Thanks for the link!

If I am reading this correctly the Heat would need to waive all team options and waive all their RFA cap holds (Nunn and Robinson) to create 28m?

they should be able to keep nunn and robinson, because their cap hold is only $4.5 mil each, but will have to not pick up team options on iggy/dragic.

thats one thing people have to remember when they say, why trade for robinson, instead just keep powell and resign him.

first of all robinson is rfa, second his cap hold is smaller than his estimated salary. raptors could sign someone using 16-18$ mil cap room then resign robinson and go over the cap.

they cant do that with powell, its either powell or cap space.

so for example signing holmes to 3 year 44 mil deal ( cristian woods contract ) and then resigning robinson for 4 year 60 mil.

or just siging powell to 4 year 78 mil.

[PhilBlackson]

If we're not getting Precious + a future first then not even remotely interested in what MIA is offering.

Find it hard to believe we can't at minimum get Paul Reed + 1st from PHI which short of getting Herro is better than anything MIA has to offer imo. Maxey would just be the throw in and I do think we could make him a better version of Delon Wright who fit extremely well next to Fred and I think he'd still have some value to flip to a 3rd team.

[gerrit4]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

Thanks for the link!

If I am reading this correctly the Heat would need to waive all team options and waive all their RFA cap holds (Nunn and Robinson) to create 28m?

they should be able to keep nunn and robinson, because their cap hold is only $4.5 mil each, but will have to not pick up team options on iggy/dragic.

thats one thing people have to remember when they say, why trade for robinson, instead just keep powell and resign him.

first of all robinson is rfa, second his cap hold is smaller than his estimated salary. raptors could sign someone using 16-18$ mil cap room then resign robinson and go over the cap.

they cant do that with powell, its either powell or cap space.

so for example signing holmes to 3 year 44 mil deal ( cristian woods contract ) and then resigning robinson for 4 year 60 mil.

or just siging powell to 4 year 78 mil.

Thanks for this, I hadn't realized that (because Robinson's cap hold is so small). To be honest, this actually starts to make sense why we may have some interest in Robinson.

I still think that a favourable outcome would be to have 6 rotation players in their prime, cap space, our lottery pick, and an additional pick.

So for example, Fred, OG, Pascal, Boucher, Precious, Robinson, our first, an additional first (from Powell trade?) and then having the cap space to sign Holmes would be really good. It's not a contender per se, but it's a complete roster and would probably get us back to that 48 range, while still having some potential to grow.

[inhabitMiami]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

Thanks for the link!

If I am reading this correctly the Heat would need to waive all team options and waive all their RFA cap holds (Nunn and Robinson) to create 28m?

they should be able to keep nunn and robinson, because their cap hold is only $4.5 mil each, but will have to not pick up team options on iggy/dragic.

thats one thing people have to remember when they say, why trade for robinson, instead just keep powell and resign him.

first of all robinson is rfa, second his cap hold is smaller than his estimated salary. raptors could sign someone using 16-18$ mil cap room then resign robinson and go over the cap.

they cant do that with powell, its either powell or cap space.

so for example signing holmes to 3 year 44 mil deal ( cristian woods contract ) and then resigning robinson for 4 year 60 mil.

or just siging powell to 4 year 78 mil.

Importantly, this value of being able to retain Duncan while also signing someone else due to his low cap hold exists for other teams. Contenders would love him and can get him by offering a pick without losing a core rotation player due to his easily matched salary and teams with cap space this summer can still use him because it's almost like getting a 2 for 1 in free agency. He has value as a player or as an asset for a third team to be redirected to.

That same logic applies to Nunn, though he's a worse player than Duncan.

[Raptors_128]

We need a team other than Philly/Miami to trade for Oladipo asap. Need to add more pressure to their side.

[OAKLEY_2]

I haven't bothered to look but maybe someone knows off the top of their heads;

Do either Miami or Philly have the cap space to sign Lowry outright for 2/50 this summer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2021/

Miami 28M
Phillies none

Miami. I bet the deal is worked out in principle and KL negotiating 2-50 is early hours horse trading. Miami will say 3-60 third year team option. That means Miami or bust. If Philly does the heavy lifting for a 3 way then maybe they are in this but looks like it is not a bidding war but carpet bargaining for a Lowry extension. Too bad MLSE can't stuff a thank-you letter envelope. Oh wait Uncle Dennis tried that. This league is so shifty Raps should be able to partial KL's extension like happens in baseball.

[OAKLEY_2]

If Lowry won't budge then Raps offer him 3-60 third year team option. Anyone hate two more years of Kyle?

[ItsDanger]

If that leak about 2/50 is accurate, a clear attempt to direct negotiations a certain way. Diminishes our bargaining power. Always take the lead in these talks. ie. should have traded him earlier.