Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Magic Expected To Retain Core

The Real Dalic · Post #1821 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:52 pm

I hope they're still working the phones to try to get Ross, Birch, and Ennis out of here. We really don't need them anymore and I would much rather see the young guys get the keys to the team immediately.

pepe1991 · Post #1822 » by **pepe1991** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Nuggets first round pick is a joke, who gives a f*** where draft pick will land 4 years from now?

4 years ago Fultz was viewed as next Harden and Lonzo Ball was new Steph Curry.. in basketball it's ancient history.

Pepe1991 I’m going to put you on ignore. Your constant bitching is killing the vibe.

Go ahead i don't care.

I'm not bitching, i'm saying same thing i've said when we traded Oladipo for Ibaka and everybody was up in arms, having eraction how we won.
We traded allstar and 2 legit starters for 1 injury prone young center ,bad starting shooting guard, Otto Porter's phone number and 3 picks not projected to be in lottery.

I don't care that rebuild is direction. But rebuild has been failing direction for last 10 yeras. Now it will be different because we have Weltman and Hammond? Not really. They needed to start rebuild 4 years ago.

Orlando and Weltman is like abusive relationship that is now trying to be fixed by pregnancy.

PrimeThyme · Post #1823 » by **PrimeThyme** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:53 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:You cannot in any world convince me that we lost the trade with Chicago. We lost the Evan trade when we decided to wait this long until trading him. The AG trade is okay, but I would have liked something different.

But the Vuc trade in terms of the value we got back, is an absoulute win imo. I don't get some of the pessimism especially from some posters who wanted a full rebuild.

WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #1824 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:54 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:You cannot in any world convince me that we lost the trade with Chicago. We lost the Evan trade when we decided to wait this long until trading him. The AG trade is okay, but I would have liked something different.

But the Vuc trade in terms of the value we got back, is an absoulute win imo. I don't get some of the pessimism especially from some posters who wanted a full rebuild.

WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

How pissed is Mo that he now has to go through WCJ and Birch still?

The Real Dalic wrote:I hope they're still working the phones to try to get Ross, Birch, and Ennis out of here. We really don't need them anymore and I would much rather see the young guys get the keys to the team immediately.

there’s always news that pops even after the deadline as these trades go through the approval process.

ogmagicfan · Post #1825 » by **ogmagicfan** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:55 pm

Hopefully we’ll see Otto Porter Jr & Terrence Ross traded to a contender like the Clippers and get their 1st rounder & expirings

The Real Dalic · Post #1826 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:56 pm

OrlandO wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Gotta fire them for sure. They were already on thin ice for their unimpressive drafting and signings... now they've confirmed they can't win big trades either. Can't let them make these upcoming picks and more free agent signings in their contract year.

I'm A-okay firing these guys. But it's just good they finally got off their asses and picked a direction.

Eh, this is more like admitting their rebuild failed than picking a direction. It's their resignation letter.

We can justify it however anyone wants to. The point is, we're no longer mediocre. We're terrible now. Which is a good thing (that's a weird thing to say). It at least means we're not married to anyone again and we can start fresh. I hope it's under new management. But it doesn't change the fact that we still picked a direction. No matter who's running the team, that's a fact. And it's been 4 years since it's felt like we were heading somewhere and not just stalling out.

ogmagicfan · Post #1827 » by **ogmagicfan** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:57 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:I hope they're still working the phones to try to get Ross, Birch, and Ennis out of here. We really don't need them anymore and I would much rather see the young guys get the keys to the team immediately.

Agree we might as well play Bamba, no excuses to not free up PT to evaluate. Birch has to go.

Message Boar · Post #1828 » by **Message Boar** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:57 pm

ogmagicfan wrote:Hopefully we’ll see Otto Porter Jr & Terrence Ross traded to a contender like the Clippers and get their 1st rounder & expirings

Yep there's still some time to wheel and deal some more and get more future assets.

tiderulz · Post #1829 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:You cannot in any world convince me that we lost the trade with Chicago. We lost the Evan trade when we decided to wait this long until trading him. The AG trade is okay, but I would have liked something different.

But the Vuc trade in terms of the value we got back, is an absoulute win imo. I don't get some of the pessimism especially from some posters who wanted a full rebuild.

WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

without Vuc (or any decent center) they were 1.5 games from playoff, 3 games from the 4th spot. Charlotte lost Ball and will start to fall some, Atlanta is imploding some and the Knicks are playing way above their head. I would bet my kids college fund Chicago makes the playoffs.

MartinsIzAfraud · Post #1830 » by **MartinsIzAfraud** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:59 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:You cannot in any world convince me that we lost the trade with Chicago. We lost the Evan trade when we decided to wait this long until trading him. The AG trade is okay, but I would have liked something different.

But the Vuc trade in terms of the value we got back, is an absoulute win imo. I don't get some of the pessimism especially from some posters who wanted a full rebuild.

WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

Bulls also have the 7th hardest remaining schedule. It's a solid risk/reward and let's be honest I don't think Chicago's issue were scoring it was defensively and they didn't get better at all.

tiderulz · Post #1831 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:00 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

How pissed is Mo that he now has to go through WCJ and Birch still?

well, WCJ cant stay healthy, so Bamba still has chance at playing time. he only played half a season each of his first 2 years.

tiderulz · Post #1832 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:02 pm

problem for the tanking team. This reminds me of the Dipo draft/pick. There are no superstar picks at the top of the draft. everyone has warts or questions. And i bet the front office considers Mobley, so we have another big man on the team.

ogmagicfan · Post #1833 » by **ogmagicfan** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:02 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

without Vuc (or any decent center) they were 1.5 games from playoff, 3 games from the 4th spot. Charlotte lost Ball and will start to fall some, Atlanta is imploding some and the Knicks are playing way above their head. I would bet my kids college fund Chicago makes the playoffs.

Atlanta has been on fire since McMillian took coaching responsibilities. I dont expect the Hornets to fall off as much particularly with their depth in the 1-3 position. Hayward & Rozier are gonna up their usage which I think theyre comfortable with. Chicago on the other hand is arguably the worst 4th quarter team in the league

Last Guardian · Post #1834 » by **Last Guardian** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:04 pm

Just to get organized for myself because this was a lot to take in:

Fultz (out)/Anthony/Randle
Ross/RJ Hampton
Porter/Okeke/Ennis
Isaac (out)/Birch
Carter Jr./Bamba

Outside of our own picks:
2021 first (Chi), 2023 first (Chi), 2025 first (den), 2 seconds

tiderulz · Post #1835 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:05 pm

ogmagicfan wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

without Vuc (or any decent center) they were 1.5 games from playoff, 3 games from the 4th spot. Charlotte lost Ball and will start to fall some, Atlanta is imploding some and the Knicks are playing way above their head. I would bet my kids college fund Chicago makes the playoffs.

Atlanta has been on fire since McMillian took coaching responsibilities. I dont expect the Hornets to fall off as much particularly with their depth in the 1-3 position. Hayward & Rozier are gonna up their usage which I think theyre comfortable with. Chicago on the other hand is arguably the worst 4th quarter team in the league

Chicago now has a scorer for the 4th quarter. and Atlanta has lost the last 2 games. remains to be seen how high they can continue play. and Knicks tapering off (5-5 in last 10 games), Heat lost the last 4 games (5-5 last 10 games too).

The Real Dalic · Post #1836 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:05 pm

Shams just said on the Athletic Deadline Show that the Magic are still trying to move Ross and that he's the name to watch right now.

jonbob17 · Post #1837 » by **jonbob17** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:08 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Just saw someone tweet: OKC now has 17 firsts and 17 seconds over the next 7 years.

I saw very good explanations somwhere how fans overrated picks just because they saw Celtics destoy Nets in one trade and that happend to be only that type of lobsided robbery in history and projected that notion on every other transaction.
Truth is, picks are assets, contenders throw away picks and long term it doesn't matter, if you gear up for rebuild, you can alway gain picks by selling.

Rockets did it both ways. They spent 7 years of selling picks and returned them all in one season.

People simply make too big deal of it.

Most picks team trade turn into fringe rotation peaces. Cca 19 of 30 picks from 2015 are either bench warmers or out of nba.

They are just assets. Maybe OKC is fortunate enough to draft someone really good this draft, and play next to SGA.
So say Brandon Ingram gets sick of playing next to Zion and wants out of NO, or any young guy on their second contract. OKC can offer 5 1sts and 5 2nds for that guy, and no one can touch their offer, because only really bad teams have good picks (that they don't trade because they are not ready to compete), and really good teams pics are not good.

Who knows maybe some of these picks turn into diamonds (high first rounders), but with all the pick protections everybody uses these days, its a lot less likely.

Message Boar · Post #1838 » by **Message Boar** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:13 pm

This thread title has aged nicely :lol:

The Effect · Post #1839 » by **The Effect** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:17 pm

tiderulz wrote:problem for the tanking team. This reminds me of the Dipo draft/pick. There are no superstar picks at the top of the draft. everyone has warts or questions. And i bet the front office considers Mobley, so we have another big man on the team.

Luka had warts, and trae young, lamelo had warts, so did zion and anthony edwards

Theres no such thing as a perfect prospect, people need to stop thinking that these guys have to be perfect

Cade Cunningham is a future superstar and a guy you build your team around. Jalen Green and jalen suggs are both guys to build around. Mobley and kuminga are great young prospects who can be the franchise players for teams

If we could get say Jalen Green and Scottie barnes with the bulls pick and team them with JI and Fultz and whoever ends up being the C, then this team would be so much better than either of the past 2 playoff orlando teams

VFX · Post #1840 » by **VFX** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:20 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:You cannot in any world convince me that we lost the trade with Chicago. We lost the Evan trade when we decided to wait this long until trading him. The AG trade is okay, but I would have liked something different.

But the Vuc trade in terms of the value we got back, is an absoulute win imo. I don't get some of the pessimism especially from some posters who wanted a full rebuild.

WCJ, journeyman center. OPJ, bought out or leaving during summer. 1st round pick will be 16 or higher (non-lottery pick), and another likely non-lotto pick in 2023. for an all-star center in his prime. yeah, we lost that trade.

OPJ is cannon fodder. WCJ is a flyer who has starter upside. The value completely lies with the first-round picks. People are just assuming that a team in Chicago who hasn't exceeded 28 wins for 4 straight seasons are this locked in top 4 seed in the East.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm not sold on their roster whatsoever or sold on a Lavine/Vuc pairing setting the league on fire. That has a serious chance of becoming an 11-13th pick this year imo. && who the hell knows what their roster will look like by the time that next pick rolls around.

This also secures us top 5 lottery odds.

If anything, it is a HUGE risk for Chicago. They do not have the pieces to be going all-in with their roster. Those picks could end up being high if not even in the top 5. OPJr will return something, anything. Being out of cap hell and ensuring a top 3 pick this year is smart.