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It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#421 » by Ernest » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:47 am

LewisnotMiller wrote:Quite like the Fournier trade.
Dislike losing Theis for nothing, but I understand he was leaving at year end regardless.

Don't really want to sign anyone now. Just roll with TT and Rob, and work out if Korner/Wagner can be a decent stretch third stringer.
(Although our rebounding is going to go from bad to worse I think...!!)



Wagner might not be nothing though. I'm really racking my brain to remember what i liked about him in one of the games against the Wizards. I do remember liking something. Anyways, it could be like when we got Crowder- everyone thought he was just a throw in but he turned out to be pretty good. I get that Washington isn't great, but he did start for them half their games. So he might not be nothing.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#422 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:48 am

Gurton Buster wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
djFan71 wrote:What do you think he's worth given that? Smart/Nesmith/picks? That's about all we got to really work with at this point. You could send TT as well, but they barely have salary to match Smart after Oubre expires. Unless they wanna send Dray.


They offered Wiggins/2 for Hayward/Smart. So I think they'd want multiple win-now vets that fill areas of need, and maybe some cap relief. Not sure how to get there, but he is gettable, IMO.


The fact that we didn't do this trade and Hayward left a month later is criminal. Imagine LaMelo Ball :lol: on this team..... Now thats a ten year window :roll: :evil:


Pre-Klay injury, dependent on Hayward opting in, which he did not. But shows their thinking at the time.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#423 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:06 am

Ernest wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Because they want to be a good team? The issue is the repeater tax on a team that its currently poised to be $20m into the tax next year, not the prorated remainder of Fournier's contract.

Are there really multiple people arguing against this?


There really are. For the record, for those people, I don't give a **** about the ownership's money either excepting when it's mismanaged in a way that will cost us chances to improve down the road. The Theis trade was a good financial move, not because it saves the owners money, because it keeps the repeater penalty from limiting the teams ability to pay players should we get to the border of contention again. It's really, really **** simple. I mean really, really **** simple.


It's amazing how many people on here don't understand. It's been spelled out so many times. People are just willingly ignorant. Feel like there are 5 or 6 of us who get it and everyone else is screaming "fire Ainge."


On a board where one of our best posters just got a 12-hour ban for saying this place sucks, I'm not gonna go too far here. Its a message board and all opinions within board rules have a right to be stated. But speaking for myself, as frustrating as the team and last 12 months of life have been, I'll just be honest and say that I am only here for like 30% of the posters here. Beyond that, I don't care for the bulk of the discourse, the rampant entitlement, or what I perceive to be some taking out their COVID fatigue and/or lives out on the team.

To the topic, no, you do not trigger a repeater tax at potentially $20-25m above the tax threshold next year just to go $1m above the tax now for 29 games of Theis on a sub-.500 team that might not even make the playoffs.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#424 » by Ernest » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:20 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Ernest wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
There really are. For the record, for those people, I don't give a **** about the ownership's money either excepting when it's mismanaged in a way that will cost us chances to improve down the road. The Theis trade was a good financial move, not because it saves the owners money, because it keeps the repeater penalty from limiting the teams ability to pay players should we get to the border of contention again. It's really, really **** simple. I mean really, really **** simple.


It's amazing how many people on here don't understand. It's been spelled out so many times. People are just willingly ignorant. Feel like there are 5 or 6 of us who get it and everyone else is screaming "fire Ainge."


On a board where one of our best posters just got a 12-hour ban for saying this place sucks, I'm not gonna go too far here. Its a message board and all opinions within board rules have a right to be stated. But speaking for myself, as frustrating as the team and last 12 months of life have been, I'll just be honest and say that I am only here for like 30% of the posters here. Beyond that, I don't care for the bulk of the discourse, the rampant entitlement, or what I perceive to be some taking out their COVID fatigue and/or lives out on the team.

To the topic, no, you do not trigger a repeater tax at potentially $20-25m above the tax threshold next year just to go $1m above the tax now for 29 games of Theis on a sub-.500 team that might not even make the playoffs.


Who got banned?

Good point about the COVID fatigue. I can't tell if all the "fire ainge" talk in 100% serious from everyone or if it's somehow ironic. I agree with you that you just have to ignore most people on here. I'm starting to rack up the people on ignore. If someone thinks Ainge should be fired for trading Theis, I really don't want to read their views on any other topic really.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#425 » by basketballRob » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:35 am

drs123310 wrote:Holy crap Irving and Harden are going to absolutely torch Kemba/Fournier on defense if we match up with them. We might get swept
Fournier actually guards Irving pretty tough.

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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#426 » by Triple7 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:43 am

Ernest wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Ernest wrote:
It's amazing how many people on here don't understand. It's been spelled out so many times. People are just willingly ignorant. Feel like there are 5 or 6 of us who get it and everyone else is screaming "fire Ainge."


On a board where one of our best posters just got a 12-hour ban for saying this place sucks, I'm not gonna go too far here. Its a message board and all opinions within board rules have a right to be stated. But speaking for myself, as frustrating as the team and last 12 months of life have been, I'll just be honest and say that I am only here for like 30% of the posters here. Beyond that, I don't care for the bulk of the discourse, the rampant entitlement, or what I perceive to be some taking out their COVID fatigue and/or lives out on the team.

To the topic, no, you do not trigger a repeater tax at potentially $20-25m above the tax threshold next year just to go $1m above the tax now for 29 games of Theis on a sub-.500 team that might not even make the playoffs.


Who got banned?

Good point about the COVID fatigue. I can't tell if all the "fire ainge" talk in 100% serious from everyone or if it's somehow ironic. I agree with you that you just have to ignore most people on here. I'm starting to rack up the people on ignore. If someone thinks Ainge should be fired for trading Theis, I really don't want to read their views on any other topic really.


Guys need to chill. We have different views and opinions on things. Every poster here have every right to vent out their frustrations and dissatisfaction. Whether it’s against Ainge, Stevens or any player for that matter. Just don’t take any posters seriously and personally. I am glad our board have different characters. It makes our thread fun, unlike some other boards, which is boring as hell. at the end of the day, we are all Celtics fans, and want the team to get better!
On a side note, I am glad Theis is gone. Stevens would be forced to play Timelord longer minutes. I’m still on the fire Stevens bandwagon! I have lost faith on that guy. Last playoffs was the final straw. If you guys have problem with that, then just don’t mind me lol!
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#427 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:28 am

Image

That seller's market died an ignominious death. No one stepped up for Collins, Lonzo, Lowry, Barnes, Powell, or Oubre, while Dipo, Gordon, and Fournier went for next to nothing. Even Vucevic went for not much considering that he just made an ASG.

There is no chance that pick swap conveys in any meaningful way for Houston next year. Heat basically got Dipo for free.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#428 » by ZeroTolerance » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:28 am

I've been watching from afar this year. And predicted we would be a .500 club and so far I've been right....That said, I was pleased with the trade deadline. I think Danny has improved the club....You could argue that Fournier, in the role he will likely be featured, replaces Gordon Hayward's loss rather well at half of Hayward's cost...And the two "stiffs" they got for Theis should do the same while promoting the "Time Lord" to a starting spot, something I thought should have happened last season....I think Wagner could be a better version of Daniel Theis that Theis himself. And resigning this kid if he pans out will be inexpensive by comparison to Theis as well... Sure, no big splash was made yesterday. But at least there is some hope now for this group of "unwatchables". I'l start watching again, now that Rob Williams will be getting his minutes....IMO, he's been the most interesting player the Celtics have had
this year.So lets see what shakes out? :)
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#429 » by GregB » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:39 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Ernest wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
There really are. For the record, for those people, I don't give a **** about the ownership's money either excepting when it's mismanaged in a way that will cost us chances to improve down the road. The Theis trade was a good financial move, not because it saves the owners money, because it keeps the repeater penalty from limiting the teams ability to pay players should we get to the border of contention again. It's really, really **** simple. I mean really, really **** simple.


It's amazing how many people on here don't understand. It's been spelled out so many times. People are just willingly ignorant. Feel like there are 5 or 6 of us who get it and everyone else is screaming "fire Ainge."


On a board where one of our best posters just got a 12-hour ban for saying this place sucks, I'm not gonna go too far here. Its a message board and all opinions within board rules have a right to be stated. But speaking for myself, as frustrating as the team and last 12 months of life have been, I'll just be honest and say that I am only here for like 30% of the posters here. Beyond that, I don't care for the bulk of the discourse, the rampant entitlement, or what I perceive to be some taking out their COVID fatigue and/or lives out on the team.

To the topic, no, you do not trigger a repeater tax at potentially $20-25m above the tax threshold next year just to go $1m above the tax now for 29 games of Theis on a sub-.500 team that might not even make the playoffs.


Yeah I think you are ok. Unless you are planning on losing your **** like truth.

I agree that the entitlement in this area is extreme. We have a whole generation of Boston sports fan that have been spoiled by Tom Brady and a good amount of success from every major sports team in this city.

On a whole, Danny Ainge has been a reason for that success. But, the last two plus years have certainly been less than spectacular for this management team. I have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we let Hayward walk. But between that move, our subpar drafting, and poor roster construction. It’s been a tough to watch us squander what looked to be an opportunity to win a championship.

I know this isn’t all on Danny as some of the things that happened have been out of his control. But I just feel the organization has only been half way inn on winning. The last two years are prime examples. Kyrie asked for vets and roster improvement his last year here. We weren’t willing to go for it. If we had listened maybe Kyrie isn’t checked out and we win a championship in a down year. IMO these last two championships were winnable. But we weren’t willing to make short term win now moves to go for it. All to preserve picks that became Grant Williams , Romeo Langford, Aaron Nesmith and Payton Pritchard.

Honestly you could argue , we did the same thing during the KG era. Stupidly low balling Tony Allen, and despite it being a bad deal on the back end, not resigning James Posey. All because we wanted flexibility moving forward when we were in the middle of championship contention.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#430 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:42 am

ddb wrote:If anyone contributing to this site doesn’t think the Celtics are a better team now then they were this morning.....you’re dead wrong. Fournier is going to help a lot. Balances things out nicely in that rotation.



Of course the team is better.

Is it a championship team?
Has yesterdays moves set them up for an offseason that can propel them into championships?

I would say no.

Fournier is an expiring, and no matter what anyone says, is indeed a flight risk.
The tpe is now slit up leaving only the ability to target an mle level player
Other tpes are vet mins
Kembas trade kicker will activate in the offseason making him harder to trade


Add to that fournier now will take minutes, not from semi and grant, but from romeo and nesmith, whom we need to get playing time as internal development is going to be key to winning a championship.

Of course i could be wrong on the last part cause maybe brad likes fournier as a power forward.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#431 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:43 am

Also find it very hard to believe that theis' value was only mo wagner.

I strongly feel like a better player could have been had.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#432 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:46 am

SLCceltic wrote:If we add LmA our starting 5 will give us 100 pts every single nite #


How many shots you giving to the starting lineup?????


You need roleplayers around scorers. 5 scorers does not work.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#433 » by ZeroTolerance » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:49 am

JediMasterRevan wrote:Also find it very hard to believe that theis' value was only mo wagner.

I strongly feel like a better player could have been had.


Liked Theis... but he should have been the backup to Rob Williams back last season....And I think Wagner in the backup role will fill the bill.. if not, there is no loss....all three of the players involved could be free agents next summer...so theres not a lot to lose here...
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#434 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:52 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Ernest wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
There really are. For the record, for those people, I don't give a **** about the ownership's money either excepting when it's mismanaged in a way that will cost us chances to improve down the road. The Theis trade was a good financial move, not because it saves the owners money, because it keeps the repeater penalty from limiting the teams ability to pay players should we get to the border of contention again. It's really, really **** simple. I mean really, really **** simple.


It's amazing how many people on here don't understand. It's been spelled out so many times. People are just willingly ignorant. Feel like there are 5 or 6 of us who get it and everyone else is screaming "fire Ainge."


On a board where one of our best posters just got a 12-hour ban for saying this place sucks, I'm not gonna go too far here. Its a message board and all opinions within board rules have a right to be stated. But speaking for myself, as frustrating as the team and last 12 months of life have been, I'll just be honest and say that I am only here for like 30% of the posters here. Beyond that, I don't care for the bulk of the discourse, the rampant entitlement, or what I perceive to be some taking out their COVID fatigue and/or lives out on the team.

To the topic, no, you do not trigger a repeater tax at potentially $20-25m above the tax threshold next year just to go $1m above the tax now for 29 games of Theis on a sub-.500 team that might not even make the playoffs.



Tax had to be avoided. There is no debate there imo


I seriously question whybthe deal was for wagner though.
Theis is absolutely, unequivocally better than wagner.
And to that wagner is an expiring it truly reeks of an "oh, no we need to make a trade" trade

There is ko doubt theis could have fetched at least a pick and a player like wagner. At the very minimum


We know lakers, charlote, Brooklyn, dallas, for a few where all looking for a bigman and we trade jim to a team that had just traded for vooch
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#435 » by TheOGJabroni » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:30 am

Ernest wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote:Quite like the Fournier trade.
Dislike losing Theis for nothing, but I understand he was leaving at year end regardless.

Don't really want to sign anyone now. Just roll with TT and Rob, and work out if Korner/Wagner can be a decent stretch third stringer.
(Although our rebounding is going to go from bad to worse I think...!!)



Wagner might not be nothing though. I'm really racking my brain to remember what i liked about him in one of the games against the Wizards. I do remember liking something. Anyways, it could be like when we got Crowder- everyone thought he was just a throw in but he turned out to be pretty good. I get that Washington isn't great, but he did start for them half their games. So he might not be nothing.

One thing I know is he plays hard, which this team desperately needs right now. He seems to be the type of guy that you hate when you face him, but love when he's on your side. I'm curious to see what type of role he'll carve out.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#436 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:34 am

BigTrade92 wrote:See, being worried about tax when Tatum and Brown could very well soon be planning an exit once those contacts end is my entire point.

They needed to overhaul this team now and get these guys help. This rag tag roster and a washed up Walker is wasting away a valuable year. There’s no guarantees in the NBA so trying to continually shoot for the future is an out of touch play.

One more year like this and these guys are beginning to pack their bags.


Were at 132M in salary committed for next year with 12 guys under contract. Were going to go well into the tax next season. Expecting them to pay repeater tax rates [450% of every dollar over the threshold] over normal tax rates just so we can spend 1M in taxes on a guy who isnt going to be resigned and blocks our best prospect from PT in a year where we are 21-23 is beyond idiotic.

Its akin shooting yourself in the foot cuz you didnt want to waste a bullet type of stupid.
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#437 » by Ben-N1ce » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:41 am

Why are people worried about the Nets when the Celtics could be 3 games under .500 tonight. How about playing 1 good game..
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#438 » by winsomme2 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:42 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Some teams have lost 70% of revenue. But LOL @ needlessly taking on a repeater tax next year just to go like $1m into the tax with a guy they aren't even resigning on a team that cant win a title.



If this is a go no where team then why trade for Fournier?

Can't argue both sides of this coin my friend.

I like the Fournier move but the Theis move is crazy.

If they are really not feeling this season, then reboot in the off-season and actually use the TPE on someone who's gonna be here.

And we just went from thin in the middle to invisible.

I like Rwill but he has trouble staying healthy.

Theis was a reeeeally weird move. If it was luxury tax related then just stand pat and play out the string.


Because they want to be a good team? The issue is the repeater tax on a team that its currently poised to be $20m into the tax next year, not the prorated remainder of Fournier's contract.

Are there really multiple people arguing against this?


Because they want to be a good team when?

Your whole point about Theis is why pay the tax because the team ISN'T good.

I'm not arguing against making sound financial decisions but the Theis move obliterates our interior defense which was already a huge weakness.

It's like not eating dinner because you're not hungry but then eating a whole cake....I thought you weren't hungry.

Fournier is a nice player and we got him for a song but his salary is so high that it forced us to get rid of our only reliable big.

Unless there's another move coming, we are going to get absolutely destroyed in the middle. So if the move to get Fournier is to make us better, I'm not seeing it. Not because of Fournier but because of Theis.

If maintaining the future tax situation was the goal, then just play out the season, play the youngs to increase their value, and save the TPE for the off season.

Don't eat the whole cake if you said you weren't hungry....That's all I'm saying
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#439 » by sportfan6197 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:Image

That seller's market died an ignominious death. No one stepped up for Collins, Lonzo, Lowry, Barnes, Powell, or Oubre, while Dipo, Gordon, and Fournier went for next to nothing. Even Vucevic went for not much considering that he just made an ASG.

There is no chance that pick swap conveys in any meaningful way for Houston next year. Heat basically got Dipo for free.


Harris, Hampton and a first for Gordon is pretty substsnial IMO.

But yeah the dipo trade was wild, not even seconds ??
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Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#440 » by LewisnotMiller » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:54 am

Ernest wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote:Quite like the Fournier trade.
Dislike losing Theis for nothing, but I understand he was leaving at year end regardless.

Don't really want to sign anyone now. Just roll with TT and Rob, and work out if Korner/Wagner can be a decent stretch third stringer.
(Although our rebounding is going to go from bad to worse I think...!!)



Wagner might not be nothing though. I'm really racking my brain to remember what i liked about him in one of the games against the Wizards. I do remember liking something. Anyways, it could be like when we got Crowder- everyone thought he was just a throw in but he turned out to be pretty good. I get that Washington isn't great, but he did start for them half their games. So he might not be nothing.


It's possible. He seems to play hard, and has at least the possibility of decent stretch shooting in what I've seen. I'll count it as a bonus if he amounts to anything.

I'm against signing Drummond (for example), so Wagner and/or Kornet would get some minutes if I was in charge.

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