NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

Ballerhogger · Post #181 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:03 pm

Jurassic_Park wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:Jokic got this in the bag no way he doesn’t get it

Even if denver finishes 7th? I think dallas surpasses them in the standings

Denver going be top 4 easily so that won’t be issue . Unless he gets hurt

Merc_Porto · Post #182 » by **Merc_Porto** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:11 am

Yeah, at this point has to be Jokic.

Myth · Post #183 » by **Myth** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:28 am

Jurassic_Park wrote:Lebron out 4-6 weeks per shams. Does he still have a shot to win mvp? If lakers continue to lose and then win when he comes back? Whats the most games he can miss and still win?

I’ve never been a fan of the argument that the team is losing without them. Them not being in the court and their team listing because of that is not valuable to the team.

cornchip · Post #184 » by **cornchip** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:44 am

At this point, I think it's going to be whoever has the best record between Lillard and Jokic with Luka and Lebron as a darkhorses. I just don't see Harden or Giannis getting enough votes.

dautjazz · Post #185 » by **dautjazz** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:05 am

Jurassic_Park wrote:Lebron out 4-6 weeks per shams. Does he still have a shot to win mvp? If lakers continue to lose and then win when he comes back? Whats the most games he can miss and still win?

Maybe if he was DOMINATING the league like MJ or 2000 Shaq, but Lebron isn't heads and shoulders above everybody, and honestly even if healthy does he really have a strong case against Jokic?

Post #186 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:26 am

2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Antinomy · Post #187 » by **Antinomy** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:22 am

Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

FinnTheHuman · Post #188 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:15 am

Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

No he wouldn't, Jokic would be leading anyway, he's got better stats, better advanced stats, on better efficiency, and the record difference is relatively small, 26-18 to 29-14 isn't helping Giannis' case when 3 of the top 4 players on those two teams are on the Bucks.

And you're essentially complaining that we know how to understand Giannis' impact better than we did 2 years ago.

Aaaand you're essentially complaining that you improved the roster by trading picks and a couple of role players for a star. Imagine the Nets complaining that they started off slowly because they overhauled the roster. You didn't, Giannis was just playing bad because he was playing bad at the start of the season, no need to fabricate poor excuses.

psimanic1 · Post #189 » by **psimanic1** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:20 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

No he wouldn't, Jokic would be leading anyway, he's got better stats, better advanced stats, on better efficiency, and the record difference is relatively small, 26-18 to 29-14 isn't helping Giannis' case when 3 of the top 4 players on those two teams are on the Bucks.

And you're essentially complaining that we know how to understand Giannis' impact better than we did 2 years ago.

Aaaand you're essentially complaining that you improved the roster by trading picks and a couple of role players for a star. Imagine the Nets complaining that they started off slowly because they overhauled the roster. You didn't, Giannis was just playing bad because he was playing bad at the start of the season, no need to fabricate poor excuses.

Also, Denver lost 4 players from last season team, yes, one was traded at TD, but we lost also Grant, Plumlee, Craig, added whole bench unit if you take into account that PJ got more minutea only in few playoff games, and Jokic ia still holding us in Top4 run, as we were last year.. The thing i am scares most of, Jokic bringa it up even more in POs, cant wait to see what he does this year. And cant wait for full court passes from Jokic to Gordon 8-)

Denver had to integrate Hartenstein, Green, Facu, PJ into bench unit, MPJ into starting lineup, all of that while only Hartenstein not being injured..

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #190 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:29 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

No he wouldn't, Jokic would be leading anyway, he's got better stats, better advanced stats, on better efficiency, and the record difference is relatively small, 26-18 to 29-14 isn't helping Giannis' case when 3 of the top 4 players on those two teams are on the Bucks.

And you're essentially complaining that we know how to understand Giannis' impact better than we did 2 years ago.

Aaaand you're essentially complaining that you improved the roster by trading picks and a couple of role players for a star. Imagine the Nets complaining that they started off slowly because they overhauled the roster. You didn't, Giannis was just playing bad because he was playing bad at the start of the season, no need to fabricate poor excuses.

You think Jrue is better than murray? No idea since I haven't compared them much but kind of surprised.

I do think Giannis would be 1b or 2 in the odds of he didn't have two trophies already. But I also agree Jokic is having the better season so far. Will come down to the final month. Giannis will have his chance with a lot of big games if he truly wants/deserves a 3rd.

eta: the role players you mention are 2 lost starters and a couple key top reserves. No need to down play it. There were a lot of changes. And adding Jrue isn't like adding harden. I like Jrue but he isn't a top 25 player IMO

Infinite Llamas · Post #191 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:25 pm

HMFFL wrote:2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Jamal Murray and Chris Paul having the same odds is so stupid I just don’t know where to begin.

FinnTheHuman · Post #192 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:43 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

No he wouldn't, Jokic would be leading anyway, he's got better stats, better advanced stats, on better efficiency, and the record difference is relatively small, 26-18 to 29-14 isn't helping Giannis' case when 3 of the top 4 players on those two teams are on the Bucks.

And you're essentially complaining that we know how to understand Giannis' impact better than we did 2 years ago.

Aaaand you're essentially complaining that you improved the roster by trading picks and a couple of role players for a star. Imagine the Nets complaining that they started off slowly because they overhauled the roster. You didn't, Giannis was just playing bad because he was playing bad at the start of the season, no need to fabricate poor excuses.

You think Jrue is better than murray? No idea since I haven't compared them much but kind of surprised.

I do think Giannis would be 1b or 2 in the odds of he didn't have two trophies already. But I also agree Jokic is having the better season so far. Will come down to the final month. Giannis will have his chance with a lot of big games if he truly wants/deserves a 3rd.

eta: the role players you mention are 2 lost starters and a couple key top reserves. No need to down play it. There were a lot of changes. And adding Jrue isn't like adding harden. I like Jrue but he isn't a top 25 player IMO

I think this season's Jrue is a slightly better player than this season's Jamal Murray. Murray is a better offensive player, but he's a liability defensively, while Jrue is an elite defender. Murray is important to Denver because Jokic and him have perfected their 2-man game, but in a vacuum I take Jrue over him on most contenders.

Anyway, a lot of guys are hunting Jokic, like Giannis, Lillard, Harden, but realistically, I don't see how any of them catch up, especially now that the Nuggets have strengthened the rotation and have a pretty easy schedule to end the season. Statistically, Jokic is having one of the greatest seasons of all time offensively, people don't realize how good he's been, and that's probably not changing.

Sark · Post #193 » by **Sark** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:10 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:
HMFFL wrote:2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Jamal Murray and Chris Paul having the same odds is so stupid I just don’t know where to begin.

It has to do with where the money is being placed. If a bunch of people started throwing money down on CP3, then his odds would go up.

KGtabake · Post #194 » by **KGtabake** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:21 pm

Giannis fans can be relaxed. They've been here before, they've done that. They will be here over and over again through the '20s.
Same goes for Harden fans. The guy is in this conversation for years and years. Nothing left to prove when it comes to individual accolades.
I'm not even going to mention LeBron's fanbase. Just a day at the office. He'll be here until he retires. He knows it, they know it.

The anxiety is for the fans that their man hasn't won yet and it's justified. When Jokic wins, it will go away silently.
The funny part is that Niko doesn't even care. Having followed him since the beginning, i know it. Just like i knew it with Giannis 3 years ago. International players have a different mentality. At least, most of them. Embiid seems to care but he's probably an exception.

Edit. The odds for CP are a joke. Forget disrespect. This is a whole new level of blasphemy.

Kurtz · Post #195 » by **Kurtz** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:26 pm

Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

I would argue the opposite.

Giannis' failure is being used against him.

He's won back to back MVPs and then was a failure (relatively) in the playoffs.

That's largely what's preventing him from being a back to back to back winner. Not even Lebron or MJ won 3 MVPs in a row - you'd have to go back to Larry Bird, Wilt and Russell - and Giannis is no Larry Bird, Wilt or Russell.

Ballerhogger · Post #196 » by **Ballerhogger** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:09 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:
HMFFL wrote:2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Jamal Murray and Chris Paul having the same odds is so stupid I just don’t know where to begin.

thats kinda insane i think there saying neither will win at all but if they do heres the jackpot

eminence · Post #197 » by **eminence** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:13 pm

HMFFL wrote:2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Where's this from? How does Gobert not even make the list?

JN61 · Post #198 » by **JN61** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:14 am

Antinomy wrote:Giannis’ success is being used against him.

If he hadn’t already won 2, he’d be the favorite right now.

They’re 2 games out of the #1 seed with like half the roster getting turned over in the offseason.

They even started off slow & are still managed to be where they are now.

Well yes, but you can't expect anything else when you are 10% worse on team record than last year while not playing as dominant basketball as he did last year.

psimanic1 · Post #199 » by **psimanic1** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:29 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
No he wouldn't, Jokic would be leading anyway, he's got better stats, better advanced stats, on better efficiency, and the record difference is relatively small, 26-18 to 29-14 isn't helping Giannis' case when 3 of the top 4 players on those two teams are on the Bucks.

And you're essentially complaining that we know how to understand Giannis' impact better than we did 2 years ago.

Aaaand you're essentially complaining that you improved the roster by trading picks and a couple of role players for a star. Imagine the Nets complaining that they started off slowly because they overhauled the roster. You didn't, Giannis was just playing bad because he was playing bad at the start of the season, no need to fabricate poor excuses.

You think Jrue is better than murray? No idea since I haven't compared them much but kind of surprised.

I do think Giannis would be 1b or 2 in the odds of he didn't have two trophies already. But I also agree Jokic is having the better season so far. Will come down to the final month. Giannis will have his chance with a lot of big games if he truly wants/deserves a 3rd.

eta: the role players you mention are 2 lost starters and a couple key top reserves. No need to down play it. There were a lot of changes. And adding Jrue isn't like adding harden. I like Jrue but he isn't a top 25 player IMO

I think this season's Jrue is a slightly better player than this season's Jamal Murray. Murray is a better offensive player, but he's a liability defensively, while Jrue is an elite defender. Murray is important to Denver because Jokic and him have perfected their 2-man game, but in a vacuum I take Jrue over him on most contenders.

Anyway, a lot of guys are hunting Jokic, like Giannis, Lillard, Harden, but realistically, I don't see how any of them catch up, especially now that the Nuggets have strengthened the rotation and have a pretty easy schedule to end the season. Statistically, Jokic is having one of the greatest seasons of all time offensively, people don't realize how good he's been, and that's probably not changing.

We actually have really though last few games to end the season if K remember correctly, like whole last month.. Jokic could take it or lose it in those few games especially as those could be true seeding games. We have a stretch of LAL, LAC, UTA and BKN with UTA and BKN being B2B

GSP · Post #200 » by **GSP** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:56 am

eminence wrote:
HMFFL wrote:2021 NBA MVP Odds

Nikola Jokic -110

Joel Embiid +500

LeBron James +600

Giannis “Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo +800

James Harden +900

Luka Doncic +1200

Damian Lillard +1400

Steph Curry +2000

Kawhi Leonard +5000

Donovan Mitchell +6000

Kevin Durant +10000

Kyrie Irving +15000

Jimmy Butler +15000

Jamal Murray +25000

Julius Randle +25000

Ja Morant +25000

Trae Young +25000

Bradley Beal +25000

Chris Paul +25000

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Where's this from? How does Gobert not even make the list?

Those are Vegas odds Rudy is at +15000 along with a few other players. Pg and Tatum too with the same odds not on that list

Who be's the MVPs?