Woj: Vuc to Chicago

[Texas Chuck]

Long shot but is Porter going to get a buy out?

Doesn't look like it.

What is the deadline this year to be eligible for a playoff roster? Because when they have their bodies back I see zero reason they would hold on to him if he wants a buyout. Or zero reason to play him.

I think if he asks out, he will get out. No reason to tick off an agent over Otto Porter.

[Leslie Forman]

Going through and formally grading all of these.

Orlando: A+++ Best deal of the day
Chicago: C- ... which is an F.

Orlando gets a massive return and fully blows it up. Value: Check plus. Direction: Check plus.
Chicago base case gives up a former lotto pick (of questionable value), a ton of cap space, and 2 mid 1sts for a center who is poor defensively to pair with LaVine and Coby White? Talk about not knowing your weaknesses. And Thad or Lauri don't have the rim protecting from pf either that Isaac promised. I see a team that just went all in on being a 6th seed. The worst part? Jay's idea to renegotiate and extend LaVine is gone. If LaVine is promising enough to build around and push all in on, why not next summer offer him a 10m+ bump to sign early?

Don't go on the Bulls board and say this, because I did and now I'm basically Hitler there lol.

It's just the most goddamn treadmillest of treadmill moves ever. Imagine going all-in on a shooting guard who's never had a winning season in his entire career, and a center who's only winning season (except as a rookie backup) was a whopping 42-40. And both of them are absolutely useless on defense. And now you also can't use any picks until 2025 for trades. And your only young prospect worth a damn is still way too raw to be any help and might not be until Vucevic's contract is done. And your third best player is 32 years old and, well, not really even that good.

I hope the Sixers or Bucks or whomever it is enjoys their quick playoff series. Would be nice to see a healthy Embiid.

[pipfan]

Bulls made the right move. Carter was a bust for us (still might become something in a few years). Picks have gotten us nowhere.

Vuc and Lavine are legit all stars. Now we need a 3rd. Lauri is a very good 3rd option. If Williams develops quickly, we can be a 2nd round team-with 3 expiring deals to play with next summer/season

Better than another failed 7 pick. If we miss the playoffs and luck into the top of the draft-where possible difference makers are-we keep the pick

[PlayerUp]

After clarifying the pick protection, I don't hate it, but don't love it either. If we're going to commit to the reset we may as well start off with losing our best player and garnering all the picks we can in the process. Wouldn't mind us flipping WCJ for some more picks and letting Birch/Bamba close out the rest of the season at the five. I presume Porter is going to be bought out soon.

WCJ isn't worth "picks". He has been a pretty bad player all year. Slow and not very gifted. Think he'll round out being a backup center in the league. Otto obviously has no value. Not worth re-signing. Just buy him out best thing to do.

[PlayerUp]

Ugh. So two top 4 protected 1sts?

Vuc isn’t worth that. Yeah, can’t like that for Chicago any longer.

Flip this to big Magic win.

Basically

Wendell Carter
Pick Between #10 to #20
2023 Top 4 Protected

That's what Orlando received. 2023 Pick obviously the pick with the most value.

[orlando_joe]

Ugh. So two top 4 protected 1sts?

Vuc isn’t worth that. Yeah, can’t like that for Chicago any longer.

Flip this to big Magic win.

Basically

Wendell Carter
Pick Between #10 to #20
2023 Top 4 Protected

That's what Orlando received. 2023 Pick obviously the pick with the most value.

if the pick is 10 -12 thats solid also dumped aminu 10 mill ...got space to 25 mill ..can magic turn that pick and combo of 17 mill tpe,ross ..any of the bunch of 2nds to move up a few spots? added to the bulls pick

[jayjaysee]

Orlando did amazing here.

I don’t mind Chicago over paying. The team wants to win and kept their three best young pieces. The Bulls set Lauri/Williams/White up to develop in the playoffs. Big fan of that. If they let Lauri walk because he’s a bad fit with Vuc, then I will be less of a fan.

Orlando - A+
Chicago - B

And as the only one pushing this; Chicago can still trade Thad and Sato this offseason and open the cap space necessary to renegotiate and extend Zach and lock the group up and make Zach a more attractive trade asset if things don’t go well. Just seems obvious.

[the_process]

I feel like there's a decent chance CHI finds a team that wants Lauri and does a S&T.

Thad fits much better with Vuc and judging solely by comments made by other Bulls players Thad also seems to be taking a leadership role on that team.

[hcsilla]

Great trade for the Magic.

Vucevic has a great season but he is not a franchise-changer. Carter, a lottery pick and another 1st (that easily can turn out another lottery pick given how fragile this Bulls rebuilding is) is a fantastic return for him.

I can see the motivation behind this trade for the Bulls but I think that was too early and too much.

[Prokorov]

Going through and formally grading all of these.

Orlando: A+++ Best deal of the day
Chicago: C- ... which is an F.

Orlando gets a massive return and fully blows it up. Value: Check plus. Direction: Check plus.
Chicago base case gives up a former lotto pick (of questionable value), a ton of cap space, and 2 mid 1sts for a center who is poor defensively to pair with LaVine and Coby White? Talk about not knowing your weaknesses. And Thad or Lauri don't have the rim protecting from pf either that Isaac promised. I see a team that just went all in on being a 6th seed. The worst part? Jay's idea to renegotiate and extend LaVine is gone. If LaVine is promising enough to build around and push all in on, why not next summer offer him a 10m+ bump to sign early?

Don't go on the Bulls board and say this, because I did and now I'm basically Hitler there lol.

It's just the most goddamn treadmillest of treadmill moves ever. Imagine going all-in on a shooting guard who's never had a winning season in his entire career, and a center who's only winning season (except as a rookie backup) was a whopping 42-40. And both of them are absolutely useless on defense. And now you also can't use any picks until 2025 for trades. And your only young prospect worth a damn is still way too raw to be any help and might not be until Vucevic's contract is done. And your third best player is 32 years old and, well, not really even that good.

I hope the Sixers or Bucks or whomever it is enjoys their quick playoff series. Would be nice to see a healthy Embiid.

When they realize Vocalic is an empty stats floor dropper they will come around

[tiderulz]

Going through and formally grading all of these.

Orlando: A+++ Best deal of the day
Chicago: C- ... which is an F.

Orlando gets a massive return and fully blows it up. Value: Check plus. Direction: Check plus.
Chicago base case gives up a former lotto pick (of questionable value), a ton of cap space, and 2 mid 1sts for a center who is poor defensively to pair with LaVine and Coby White? Talk about not knowing your weaknesses. And Thad or Lauri don't have the rim protecting from pf either that Isaac promised. I see a team that just went all in on being a 6th seed. The worst part? Jay's idea to renegotiate and extend LaVine is gone. If LaVine is promising enough to build around and push all in on, why not next summer offer him a 10m+ bump to sign early?

Don't go on the Bulls board and say this, because I did and now I'm basically Hitler there lol.

It's just the most goddamn treadmillest of treadmill moves ever. Imagine going all-in on a shooting guard who's never had a winning season in his entire career, and a center who's only winning season (except as a rookie backup) was a whopping 42-40. And both of them are absolutely useless on defense. And now you also can't use any picks until 2025 for trades. And your only young prospect worth a damn is still way too raw to be any help and might not be until Vucevic's contract is done. And your third best player is 32 years old and, well, not really even that good.

I hope the Sixers or Bucks or whomever it is enjoys their quick playoff series. Would be nice to see a healthy Embiid.

When they realize Vocalic is an empty stats floor dropper they will come around

Vuc led a bad Orlando team to playoffs twice, and is very efficient. Not just an empty stat guy.

[BK_2020]

Vuc led a bad Orlando team to playoffs twice, and is very efficient. Not just an empty stat guy.

He's hovered around league average efficiency for his career, including this season. For a 7 footer, that's not very efficient.

[Prokorov]

Don't go on the Bulls board and say this, because I did and now I'm basically Hitler there lol.

It's just the most goddamn treadmillest of treadmill moves ever. Imagine going all-in on a shooting guard who's never had a winning season in his entire career, and a center who's only winning season (except as a rookie backup) was a whopping 42-40. And both of them are absolutely useless on defense. And now you also can't use any picks until 2025 for trades. And your only young prospect worth a damn is still way too raw to be any help and might not be until Vucevic's contract is done. And your third best player is 32 years old and, well, not really even that good.

I hope the Sixers or Bucks or whomever it is enjoys their quick playoff series. Would be nice to see a healthy Embiid.

When they realize Vocalic is an empty stats floor dropper they will come around

Vuc led a bad Orlando team to playoffs twice, and is very efficient. Not just an empty stat guy.

I mean, he made the playoffs twice... i wouldnt say he "led" them there as if it was some feat having a losing record and making it as a 7 or 8 seed an a hiddeous east. it was more like he played on a bad team that wasnt tanking moreso then leading them anywhere. they failed to crack 30 wins in 6 of his 9 seasons there.

As far as empty stats, being efficient doesnt mean you have huge impact. he gets his at the expense of the offense. things running through him makes the team super easy to defend overall, He has consitently dropped like 30+ and 12+ on the nets on good efficiency only to have us win because your not going to win much running everything through a 1 way center with 25%+ usage who cant get to the FT line.

the threes are nice, but i mean someone liek ilyasova can give you the threes at like 20% the cost

[Prokorov]

Vuc led a bad Orlando team to playoffs twice, and is very efficient. Not just an empty stat guy.

He's hovered around league average efficiency for his career, including this season. For a 7 footer, that's not very efficient.

and for a player with that usage, at his size, not getting to the fT line even 3 times a game is pretty sad

[hugepatsfan]

I think CHI is just pushing for the playoffs in the near term. Vucevic should help a lot in that. Does this team have a title ceiling? Definitely not unless they strike absolute gold and develop a true elite talent (which is hard to do with their pick situation now). But LaVine/Vucevic is definitely a pairing that should win some regular season games.

Lots of revenue in a team people can at least be happy watching and potentially host playoff games.

[drosestruts]

Interesting responses here on the winner/value of the trade and different poster's perspectives.

I also feel like winners and losers is almost the wrong way to look at trades sometimes. The Bulls wanted to get better, they did. The Magic wanted assets to help with a rebuild, they got that.

In terms of who won I'm not sure what lens people are looking at it from. Are those suggesting the Magic won the trade suggesting that in 2 to 4 years they see the Magic having a better record than the Bulls?

As a Bulls fan I'm happy. Magic fans also seem happy.

[HartfordWhalers]

Interesting responses here on the winner/value of the trade and different poster's perspectives.

I also feel like winners and losers is almost the wrong way to look at trades sometimes. The Bulls wanted to get better, they did. The Magic wanted assets to help with a rebuild, they got that.

In terms of who won I'm not sure what lens people are looking at it from. Are those suggesting the Magic won the trade suggesting that in 2 to 4 years they see the Magic having a better record than the Bulls?

As a Bulls fan I'm happy. Magic fans also seem happy.

Chicago was the 20th ranked defense before the trade.

Very small sample alert, but through 3 games they have been bottom 3 in terms of defense and:

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612741&VsPlayerID=202696&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=3

The defense is 21.5 raing worse with Vuc on the floor than off, and the team's net rating is 13 points worse.

I would expect those numbers to change dramatically, that level awful is clearly not sustainable.

On the other hand, I also think it is a bit premature to even declare that the Bulls got better, as some did make the argument beforehand that they might have just made their defensive issues even worse.

[Colbinii]

Interesting responses here on the winner/value of the trade and different poster's perspectives.

I also feel like winners and losers is almost the wrong way to look at trades sometimes. The Bulls wanted to get better, they did. The Magic wanted assets to help with a rebuild, they got that.

In terms of who won I'm not sure what lens people are looking at it from. Are those suggesting the Magic won the trade suggesting that in 2 to 4 years they see the Magic having a better record than the Bulls?

As a Bulls fan I'm happy. Magic fans also seem happy.

Chicago was the 20th ranked defense before the trade.

Very small sample alert, but through 3 games they have been bottom 3 in terms of defense and:

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612741&VsPlayerID=202696&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=3

The defense is 21.5 raing worse with Vuc on the floor than off, and the team's net rating is 13 points worse.

I would expect those numbers to change dramatically, that level awful is clearly not sustainable.

On the other hand, I also think it is a bit premature to even declare that the Bulls got better, as some did make the argument beforehand that they might have just made their defensive issues even worse.

There is a very good chance the Magic draft mediocre players with the picks they received (or busts) as well.

I agree with drosetruts in the sense of viewing a trade as "who won" is a flawed question, especially a day/week/month after the trade.

[orlando_joe]

Interesting responses here on the winner/value of the trade and different poster's perspectives.

I also feel like winners and losers is almost the wrong way to look at trades sometimes. The Bulls wanted to get better, they did. The Magic wanted assets to help with a rebuild, they got that.

In terms of who won I'm not sure what lens people are looking at it from. Are those suggesting the Magic won the trade suggesting that in 2 to 4 years they see the Magic having a better record than the Bulls?

As a Bulls fan I'm happy. Magic fans also seem happy.

Chicago was the 20th ranked defense before the trade.

Very small sample alert, but through 3 games they have been bottom 3 in terms of defense and:

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612741&VsPlayerID=202696&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=3

The defense is 21.5 raing worse with Vuc on the floor than off, and the team's net rating is 13 points worse.

I would expect those numbers to change dramatically, that level awful is clearly not sustainable.

On the other hand, I also think it is a bit premature to even declare that the Bulls got better, as some did make the argument beforehand that they might have just made their defensive issues even worse.

There is a very good chance the Magic draft mediocre players with the picks they received (or busts) as well.

I agree with drosetruts in the sense of viewing a trade as "who won" is a flawed question, especially a day/week/month after the trade.

i agree ..i mean really the 2 picks and wcj are what magic still getting from dwight trade..lol...also fournier from dwight trade so the tpe and the 2-2nds as well..lets re-grade dwight trade after magic get the picks

[Prokorov]

Interesting responses here on the winner/value of the trade and different poster's perspectives.

I also feel like winners and losers is almost the wrong way to look at trades sometimes. The Bulls wanted to get better, they did. The Magic wanted assets to help with a rebuild, they got that.

In terms of who won I'm not sure what lens people are looking at it from. Are those suggesting the Magic won the trade suggesting that in 2 to 4 years they see the Magic having a better record than the Bulls?

As a Bulls fan I'm happy. Magic fans also seem happy.

I dont think the Bulls got better. I think there is little evidence they did or will. they added a guy who is an awful fit, further exposes their defense, and has been an empty stats guy who has proven not to raise a teams floor. they gave up multiple picks in a pretty clear overpay.

To me this is the worst trade in a long time. Maybe since the nets traded a lotto pick for a 3 momth rental of gerald wallace