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[CrimsonCrew]

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Said this in the other thread, but I'm fine with this. I would have liked Hyder back on a one-year deal. He's a solid base end who would have given us more time to ease Bosa back in. But he's not an impact player or even close to it, and there shouldn't be much expectation that his sack numbers will be as high in Seattle. It's a fine signing for them, but I think they could have used that money more effectively elsewhere.

Hyder is an underrated player Crims. The man was arguably our 2nd best player on defense this past season.

I agree he's somewhat underrated, but he's still just a solid rotational piece in an ideal circumstance. Last year, with injuries to both starting DEs, our NT, our WLB, our SS, and multiple CBs including one outside starter and our primary slot corner, and a rookie with no offseason starting at DT, he was arguably our third-best player. Warner and Verrett were both head-and-shoulders better. Ward was probably also better. PFF also had Armstead comfortably above him in ranking. So sure, among the group of replacements, he shone. He's still best-suited to that role, and despite the solid sack numbers, he's just not close to being an impact pass rusher.

[thesack12]

I realize its not quite this easy as multiple factors are in play, but I'd rather have Hyder back over Ebukam.

Really, other than the Ebukam signing the offseason was going almost perfectly relative to my realistic hopes. Don't like that signing, but at least his 2nd year can be voided fairly easily. The only other minor quibble I have is, I think they gave Mack too much money. I'm glad they brought him in, but I believe they overpaid for him.

Which leads us to yesterday's development, which we really need to see what happens on draft day to fully evaluate our stances/opinions on the move.

[CrimsonCrew]

I realize its not quite this easy as multiple factors are in play, but I'd rather have Hyder back over Ebukam.

Really, other than the Ebukam signing the offseason was going almost perfectly relative to my realistic hopes. Don't like that signing, but at least his 2nd year can be voided fairly easily. The only other minor quibble I have is, I think they gave Mack too much money. I'm glad they brought him in, but I believe they overpaid for him.

Which leads us to yesterday's development, which we really need to see what happens on draft day to fully evaluate our stances/opinions on the move.

I'm a bit torn on the Ebukam signing. It seems like we overpaid for him (even though we're paying him less than $4 million this year and can get out of it after a year with under $2 million in dead space) and I'm not expecting great things, but he's been a solid starter to date in his career, has elite athleticism, and has generally excelled rushing from the wide alignment that we favor. Comparing him coming in this year to Hyder coming in last year, you'd have to say Ebukam is the stronger prospect. And we've seen Kocurek work wonders before. I think it's a worthwhile experiment.

[thesack12]

I realize its not quite this easy as multiple factors are in play, but I'd rather have Hyder back over Ebukam.

Really, other than the Ebukam signing the offseason was going almost perfectly relative to my realistic hopes. Don't like that signing, but at least his 2nd year can be voided fairly easily. The only other minor quibble I have is, I think they gave Mack too much money. I'm glad they brought him in, but I believe they overpaid for him.

Which leads us to yesterday's development, which we really need to see what happens on draft day to fully evaluate our stances/opinions on the move.

I'm a bit torn on the Ebukam signing. It seems like we overpaid for him (even though we're paying him less than $4 million this year and can get out of it after a year with under $2 million in dead space) and I'm not expecting great things, but he's been a solid starter to date in his career, has elite athleticism, and has generally excelled rushing from the wide alignment that we favor. Comparing him coming in this year to Hyder coming in last year, you'd have to say Ebukam is the stronger prospect. And we've seen Kocurek work wonders before. I think it's a worthwhile experiment.

I'd feel better about the Ebukam signing if he was coming from some team like the Lions. Then I could hang my hat on, well he's coming out of a terrible defense but should be able to perform better now because he will have a lot more talent around him. But no, he's coming from literally the best defense in the league and was pedestrian with the Rams.

The possibility of different scheme/coaching/etc can help him turn the corner does exist. If that happens, I'd be happy to eat crow about the signing.

[thesack12]

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Well if there was any shred of doubt that Jets weren't going QB at 2, its been killed now.


Posted this in the offseason thread, but its probably more relevant here.

[Cactus Jack]

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[tres]

One again Seattle signing one of our sloppy seconds SMH, they wanna be us so bad man fr.

[CrimsonCrew]

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Hey, it's worth a shot. Especially with Seattle's pass rush. Aldon still has ability, and wasn't bad last year. But he's certainly not an impact guy at this point. Though maybe with another year back in the saddle he could get back to something close to that. Presumably he's not going to be paid all that much.

[CrimsonCrew]

A little bummed to see Clowney go to the Browns. He was the guy I would have been targeting on just that type of deal if we did end up parting ways with Garoppolo. He's not the impact pass rusher that some seem to think he is (except for that one game against us a couple years ago when he basically single-handedly destroyed our offense), but he's an elite run stopper and is a very consistent all-around player. Playing on the strong side opposite a true impact pass rusher (to be fair, as he will be opposite Garrett in Cleveland) would have seen him in an ideal role. And playing with our talented DL, he would have had a legitimate chance to have a big sack year, which could potentially have set him up for a big contract next year, and might have set us up for a third- or fourth-round comp pick.

Oh well. Back to hoping that Ford's career isn't over....

[Cactus Jack]

One again Seattle signing one of our sloppy seconds SMH, they wanna be us so bad man fr.

So bad they hired Robert Saleh & signed Richard Sherman. Right?

[tres]

“Champions”

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[Cactus Jack]

Just pointing out the irony in the "sloppy seconds" rant ^ lol.

Yes, the Hawks have signed a couple of ex-niners this offseason (Hyder & now Aldon). Both teams have been exchanging players going back some time now. Mostly because they've run the same scheme defensively the last handful of years. That's pretty common. There was a period when the Niners we're signing/hiring a bunch of former Hawks (Saleh, Sherm, Malcolm Smith, etc.) & vice versa. Sometimes that happens when rivals compete against one another.

[CrimsonCrew]

Just pointing out the irony in the "sloppy seconds" rant ^ lol.

Yes, the Hawks have signed a couple of ex-niners this offseason. Both teams have been exchanging players going back some time now. Mostly because they've run the same scheme defensively the last handful of years. There was a period when the Niners we're signing/hiring a bunch of former Hawks (Saleh, Sherm, Malcolm Smith, etc.) & vice versa. Sometimes that happens when rivals compete against one another.

A degree of overlap is inevitable within a division, but the Hawks have pursued a lot more Niners players than the other way around. This offseason, they've signed Witherspoon and Hyder in addition to Aldon Smith. And they only signed five FAs. In 2019, they signed Marsh (though he was with the Hawks before the Niners) and Iupati. In 2018, they signed Dontae Johnson. In 2017, they signed Wilhoite. Mike Davis signed somewhere in there.

Though actually, as I'm looking through the FA movement, the Niners have signed a lot of Hawks I didn't realize. Marsh, Gilliam (wish we hadn't, there....), Brock Coyle, etc. It's still not quite to the same extent, but there has been a lot of back-and-forth between the teams. I would distinguish the Sherman signing as he was a blue chip FA addition, even coming off the injury, as opposed to the other guys who were role players. Doesn't quite fit in with the pattern.

[Cactus Jack]

Just pointing out the irony in the "sloppy seconds" rant ^ lol.

Yes, the Hawks have signed a couple of ex-niners this offseason. Both teams have been exchanging players going back some time now. Mostly because they've run the same scheme defensively the last handful of years. There was a period when the Niners we're signing/hiring a bunch of former Hawks (Saleh, Sherm, Malcolm Smith, etc.) & vice versa. Sometimes that happens when rivals compete against one another.

A degree of overlap is inevitable within a division, but the Hawks have pursued a lot more Niners players than the other way around. This offseason, they've signed Witherspoon and Hyder in addition to Aldon Smith. And they only signed five FAs. In 2019, they signed Marsh (though he was with the Hawks before the Niners) and Iupati. In 2018, they signed Dontae Johnson. In 2017, they signed Wilhoite. Mike Davis signed somewhere in there.

Though actually, as I'm looking through the FA movement, the Niners have signed a lot of Hawks I didn't realize. Marsh, Gilliam (wish we hadn't, there....), Brock Coyle, etc. It's still not quite to the same extent, but there has been a lot of back-and-forth between the teams. I would distinguish the Sherman signing as he was a blue chip FA addition, even coming off the injury, as opposed to the other guys who were role players. Doesn't quite fit in with the pattern.

Yeah, Marsh was drafted by Pete & got his start here.

Iupati had a connection with Mike Solari (Niners).

iirc Johnson was cut in camp & you're right Wilhoite was primarily a backup/depth. Forgot Mike Davis played for ya'll lol.

Yes, the Niners have signed a bunch of guys as well through the years. A lot of them we're recruited by Saleh in that time (Sherm).

I joke with a Niner friend of mine about it all the time.

[thesack12]

A little bummed to see Clowney go to the Browns. He was the guy I would have been targeting on just that type of deal if we did end up parting ways with Garoppolo. He's not the impact pass rusher that some seem to think he is (except for that one game against us a couple years ago when he basically single-handedly destroyed our offense), but he's an elite run stopper and is a very consistent all-around player. Playing on the strong side opposite a true impact pass rusher (to be fair, as he will be opposite Garrett in Cleveland) would have seen him in an ideal role. And playing with our talented DL, he would have had a legitimate chance to have a big sack year, which could potentially have set him up for a big contract next year, and might have set us up for a third- or fourth-round comp pick.

Oh well. Back to hoping that Ford's career isn't over....

IMO, Clowney is VERY overrated. I think his draft pedigree elevates him as a name brand much more this is actual play and production.

To me there is a reason why he is now on his 4th different team in 4 seasons. Which is also the same reason why he remained a free agent very late into the offseason each of the past 3 years.

He is a solid player, but his play has rarely been up to the level of his hype and his cost.

[thesack12]

The 49er - Seattle player jumping was a thing long before the Pete Carroll era, Merton Hanks and Michael Robinson immediately come to mind

[Cactus Jack]

A little bummed to see Clowney go to the Browns. He was the guy I would have been targeting on just that type of deal if we did end up parting ways with Garoppolo. He's not the impact pass rusher that some seem to think he is (except for that one game against us a couple years ago when he basically single-handedly destroyed our offense), but he's an elite run stopper and is a very consistent all-around player. Playing on the strong side opposite a true impact pass rusher (to be fair, as he will be opposite Garrett in Cleveland) would have seen him in an ideal role. And playing with our talented DL, he would have had a legitimate chance to have a big sack year, which could potentially have set him up for a big contract next year, and might have set us up for a third- or fourth-round comp pick.

Oh well. Back to hoping that Ford's career isn't over....

IMO, Clowney is VERY overrated. I think his draft pedigree elevates him as a name brand much more this is actual play and production.

To me there is a reason why he is now on his 4th different team in 4 seasons. Which is also the same reason why he remained a free agent very late into the offseason each of the past 3 years.

He is a solid player, but his play has rarely been up to the level of his hype and his cost.

Clowney is good. Especially against the run. But his biggest issue is his motor. Lack of consistency. This has been an issue for him since college.

He has games (like MNF against the Niners), when he completely dominates & looks like an All-Pro. When he's aggressive & on his game, then he's an elite run defender & wrecks havoc (pressure).

But then he will have periods where he's a complete no show & his play hurts him & the team. Fwiw he's also never had a double digit sack season.

[thesack12]

A little bummed to see Clowney go to the Browns. He was the guy I would have been targeting on just that type of deal if we did end up parting ways with Garoppolo. He's not the impact pass rusher that some seem to think he is (except for that one game against us a couple years ago when he basically single-handedly destroyed our offense), but he's an elite run stopper and is a very consistent all-around player. Playing on the strong side opposite a true impact pass rusher (to be fair, as he will be opposite Garrett in Cleveland) would have seen him in an ideal role. And playing with our talented DL, he would have had a legitimate chance to have a big sack year, which could potentially have set him up for a big contract next year, and might have set us up for a third- or fourth-round comp pick.

Oh well. Back to hoping that Ford's career isn't over....

IMO, Clowney is VERY overrated. I think his draft pedigree elevates him as a name brand much more this is actual play and production.

To me there is a reason why he is now on his 4th different team in 4 seasons. Which is also the same reason why he remained a free agent very late into the offseason each of the past 3 years.

He is a solid player, but his play has rarely been up to the level of his hype and his cost.

Clowney is good. Especially against the run. But his biggest issue is his motor. Lack of consistency. This has been an issue for him since college.

He has games (like MNF against the Niners), when he completely dominates & looks like an All-Pro. When he's aggressive & on his game, then he's an elite run defender & wrecks havoc (pressure).

But then he will have periods where he's a complete no show & his play hurts him & the team. Fwiw he's also never had a double digit sack season.

Yeah, that's another reason why I'm not real high on him. He's been in a contract year each of the past 2 seasons and still hasn't come through with high level play for any sustained amount of time.

[Cactus Jack]

IMO, Clowney is VERY overrated. I think his draft pedigree elevates him as a name brand much more this is actual play and production.

To me there is a reason why he is now on his 4th different team in 4 seasons. Which is also the same reason why he remained a free agent very late into the offseason each of the past 3 years.

He is a solid player, but his play has rarely been up to the level of his hype and his cost.

Clowney is good. Especially against the run. But his biggest issue is his motor. Lack of consistency. This has been an issue for him since college.

He has games (like MNF against the Niners), when he completely dominates & looks like an All-Pro. When he's aggressive & on his game, then he's an elite run defender & wrecks havoc (pressure).

But then he will have periods where he's a complete no show & his play hurts him & the team. Fwiw he's also never had a double digit sack season.

Yeah, that's another reason why I'm not real high on him. He's been in a contract year each of the past 2 seasons and still hasn't come through with high level play for any sustained amount of time.

Yup. He's gone out of his way the last two years to skip training camp, while holding out for more money.

He's an absolute freak athlete. But the knock on him for a while now is that he's somewhat lazy (selfish). After watching him up close, I can't really dispute that.

[CrimsonCrew]

I realized I used the word "consistent" when that isn't really what I meant. I meant that he's a well-rounded player who doesn't have a lot of holes in his game physically. But yes, I would absolutely agree that he's inconsistent and does not give full effort - or even close to it - play-to-play or game-to-game. That's definitely the biggest red flag with Clowney, and it's a big part of why he hasn't found a longterm deal.

But that's not what I would ever propose giving him. I was envisioning precisely what he got: a one-year contract where he could come into a good situation, hopefully capitalize on it, help the team make a playoff/SB run (probably a bit more likely on the Niners than the Browns, though I like a lot of what the Browns have done recently), and generate enough buzz that he rehabilitates his stock and can sign a longterm contract - with another team - next year. It's all moot at this point, but of the remaining FAs, he was one of the guys who still intrigued me as someone who at least had the potential to be a difference maker.