Image ImageImage Image

What exactly is the plan?

Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23

User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,720
And1: 18,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#201 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:01 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:HomoSapien hit the nail on the head. It's to make Chicago an attractive destination. Brooklyn wasn't attractive when Billy King was finally let go. They were reminiscent of Chicago, except without the coach or Zach LaVine. So even worse. Brooklyn knew no one was coming. Sean Marks decided to get to step 4, he needed to get through steps 1-3. And he did. He made Brooklyn attractive by building a competitive team of misfits, then slowly gathered assets. KD and KI looked at them as a team with a culture and identity. That's why in the end, they chose Brooklyn over the Knicks.

Houston under Daryl Morey. He inherited a broken down Yao and Tracy McGrady. What did he do? Same as Brooklyn would do years later. He didn't skip a step. He knew if he wanted Houston to be attractive, he needed to build some type of culture and competitiveness. He combined that with being aggressive to get Harden. Now, while that ended badly, they also got a good 8 years out of Harden in his prime. They competed for a chip. They were able to attract other players - Dwight, CP3.

And this is not a recent thing either. Miami - constant first round exits after their championship. They had a bad roster, but they instilled a culture of competitiveness. Now, everyone knew that Riley had a reputation of not wanting to tank and lose on a regular basis. He was making trades that would prevent a tank such as trading for Shawn Marion, signing a broken Jermaine O'Neal, etc. LeBron and Bosh go down there with Wade recruiting due to culture.

Orlando, back in 2000. They got TMac and Grant Hill due to a competitive culture that Pat Williams and Doc Rivers built the year before. They were competing with Darrell Armstrong of all people.

There are countless examples of this in NBA history. Players do not want to play for a bad culture, non-sense type atmosphere. They want their money and they want to ball while knowing their team is going to try to compete. For the past 10 years at least, the Bulls were seen as a clown show.


I agree that culture is important, but it's a weird thing. Under the same FO and Thibs, people would have said the Bulls had a good culture. We got numerous players for less money than they could have gotten elsewhere (Boozer, Dunleavy, Gasol, possibly Korver/Brewer as well).

Culture is a lot about your coach and how good your players are though. I don't think the culture has shifted meaningfully because the Bulls just acquired Vucevic. I do think it probably shifted meaningfully with the change in FO, the hiring of new basketball operations people to build out a larger more respectable staff, hiring minorities in several key positions, the bringing in of a well respected and well liked coach, and improvements on the team.

So yes, I do think culture is important, and I do think it is getting better. I don't think Vuc does much at all for that outside of any impact he simply has on wins and to the extent winning is just a proxy for culture.
bullsnewdynasty
RealGM
Posts: 23,666
And1: 2,552
Joined: Sep 11, 2009

Re: What exactly is the The plan? 

Post#202 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:04 pm

The plan is putting together our own big 3. And we still have PLENTY of assets to pull of another big deal in the offseason. Just need to be ready when the next star asks out.

Before this trade, the Bulls weren't on anybody's map. All of the sudden, players around the league start looking around and thinking they can win here. Look at what the White Sox did.
bullsnewdynasty
RealGM
Posts: 23,666
And1: 2,552
Joined: Sep 11, 2009

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#203 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:11 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:You know, maybe I'm just being harsh on this guy. Maybe he actually has a huge impact on Orlando's success (or lack of, really) and it's all just the crap he's surrounded by that's been the cause of their struggles the whole time he's been there. So let's see how they've played with and without him. He's played 591 games and missed 101 games, so I'd say that's a pretty good sample size of them with and without him, over a loooong amount of time, with lots of different types of teammates and coaches. This is the kind of barometer that immediately makes a stud player look like Basketball Jesus. This is the stat where even a second-tier "star" like Jimmy Butler comes off like a superstar. Well…

Magic with Vucevic: 215-376, or a 29.8 win pace in an 82-game season
Magic without Vucevic: 32-69, or a 26 win pace

So yeah…they just went all-in on a guy who adds a whopping 4 wins to a 26-win team.

But wait a minute…a big chunk of those losses without him actually came in only one season, 2013-14, just his second in Orlando, when they went only 4-21 without him for some reason. Let's see the eight seasons he's played there without that one outlier year…

Magic with Vucevic: 196-338, or a 30.1 win pace
Magic without Vucevic: 28-48, or a 30.2 win pace

Uhhhh…yeah that's not good.

You know what? Let's go with those 4 wins. Yeah. That's better. Let's say this franchise just went all-in on a guy that adds 4 wins to a 26-win team.

Get that seventh spot in the trophy case ready, boys!


Pau Gasol never did anything in Memphis

Going all in is trading a bust and 2 protected 1st rounders? Huh?
patryk7754
General Manager
Posts: 8,875
And1: 1,519
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#204 » by patryk7754 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:34 pm

PlayerUp wrote:This is the problem when you try to push forward winning without having a young star like a Doncic, Zion, Morant, LaMelo to build around. We had 4 lottery picks for which we could have landed some serious talent and it's unclear if we have nailed any of these picks yet.

Everything comes down to if Coby White or Patrick Williams can develop now. If they can, we can push forward. If not, we have limited room to improve after this offseason.

Coby is probably at best a 7th guy. He needs to really work on his efficiency as a scorer if he wants to be considered a 6th man starter type of guy. He'll never be able to run an offense. I think its best for the Bulls and White to seperate. We don't need what he can do best (which isn't even that good) and what we need him to do he's just bad at and will probably only at best is become average at it. PW I think has star written all over him. He's an efficient scorer, he's athletic, a great defender and rebound. I think his career will pan out a lot like Paul George's
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 22,129
And1: 11,815
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#205 » by WindyCityBorn » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:36 pm

dougthonus wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:You really think lowly of Vuc. That is crux of the disagreement. I think Lonzo Ball would be a high level PG.


I think I rate Vuc pretty appropriately. Everyone on this forum seemed to notch up their rating of Vuc by about 50% after we acquired him IMO. We even had a thread discussing him and generally people weren't that excited about it, and I'm pretty sure the projected offer was less than what we actually offered.

Lonzo's not a high level PG. The pelicans don't even play him on ball as the initiator of their offense because he couldn't create any action in the half court.


I never considered Vuc because I didn’t think we would ever acquire him. So I never put a value on him. I know kicked our butts just the other all-star centers did. The only thing I see lacking from his offensive game is drawing fouls.
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 22,086
And1: 8,840
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#206 » by Stratmaster » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:52 pm

DJhitek wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Define massive leap in a quantifiable way and I may bet you a deep dish and a beer.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


If Patrick Williams becomes a star, this would be a 55 win team and would be perennial eastern conference title contender.

I say Pat Williams because outside of hitting on a lottery ticket with a second rounder, he is the only sensible path to a star. But if Patrick Williams became a 17-20 point scorer with solid defensive chops I’d buy more than a beer and pizza.
We now have 3 players who average >21 ppg per 36, and Coby who can probably achieve that if put in a 6th man scoring role.

I don't think PWill has to average 17 for the Bulls to hit 50 wins in a full 82 game season.


Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
nitetrain8603
RealGM
Posts: 24,128
And1: 1,831
Joined: May 30, 2003
         

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#207 » by nitetrain8603 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:24 am

dougthonus wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:HomoSapien hit the nail on the head. It's to make Chicago an attractive destination. Brooklyn wasn't attractive when Billy King was finally let go. They were reminiscent of Chicago, except without the coach or Zach LaVine. So even worse. Brooklyn knew no one was coming. Sean Marks decided to get to step 4, he needed to get through steps 1-3. And he did. He made Brooklyn attractive by building a competitive team of misfits, then slowly gathered assets. KD and KI looked at them as a team with a culture and identity. That's why in the end, they chose Brooklyn over the Knicks.

Houston under Daryl Morey. He inherited a broken down Yao and Tracy McGrady. What did he do? Same as Brooklyn would do years later. He didn't skip a step. He knew if he wanted Houston to be attractive, he needed to build some type of culture and competitiveness. He combined that with being aggressive to get Harden. Now, while that ended badly, they also got a good 8 years out of Harden in his prime. They competed for a chip. They were able to attract other players - Dwight, CP3.

And this is not a recent thing either. Miami - constant first round exits after their championship. They had a bad roster, but they instilled a culture of competitiveness. Now, everyone knew that Riley had a reputation of not wanting to tank and lose on a regular basis. He was making trades that would prevent a tank such as trading for Shawn Marion, signing a broken Jermaine O'Neal, etc. LeBron and Bosh go down there with Wade recruiting due to culture.

Orlando, back in 2000. They got TMac and Grant Hill due to a competitive culture that Pat Williams and Doc Rivers built the year before. They were competing with Darrell Armstrong of all people.

There are countless examples of this in NBA history. Players do not want to play for a bad culture, non-sense type atmosphere. They want their money and they want to ball while knowing their team is going to try to compete. For the past 10 years at least, the Bulls were seen as a clown show.


I agree that culture is important, but it's a weird thing. Under the same FO and Thibs, people would have said the Bulls had a good culture. We got numerous players for less money than they could have gotten elsewhere (Boozer, Dunleavy, Gasol, possibly Korver/Brewer as well).

Culture is a lot about your coach and how good your players are though. I don't think the culture has shifted meaningfully because the Bulls just acquired Vucevic. I do think it probably shifted meaningfully with the change in FO, the hiring of new basketball operations people to build out a larger more respectable staff, hiring minorities in several key positions, the bringing in of a well respected and well liked coach, and improvements on the team.

So yes, I do think culture is important, and I do think it is getting better. I don't think Vuc does much at all for that outside of any impact he simply has on wins and to the extent winning is just a proxy for culture.


Culture on gameday is the coaches and players. Culture to win is an organizational thing. Bulls had dysfunction between the coach and the FO. Players knew that too. Melo even mentioned it
User avatar
Leslie Forman
RealGM
Posts: 10,119
And1: 6,304
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#208 » by Leslie Forman » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:44 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Pau Gasol never did anything in Memphis

Pau Gasol in his early 20s dragged sorry ass rosters with Shane Battier as the second best player to multiple playoff appearances in the ridiculous Western Conference. Vucevic can't even sniff prime Pau's jockstrap.
User avatar
DJhitek
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 19,778
And1: 1,354
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
Location: Berto Center
       

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#209 » by DJhitek » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:32 am

Stratmaster wrote:we now have 3 players who average >21 ppg per 36, and Coby who can probably achieve that if put in a 6th man scoring role.

I don't think PWill has to average 17 for the Bulls to hit 50 wins in a full 82 game season.


Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


If Coby can focus on being a more efficient scorer than sure.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,034
And1: 12,989
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: What exactly is the The plan? 

Post#210 » by dice » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:22 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:The plan is putting together our own big 3

we don't even have a big 1. and that's the fundamental problem with choosing this path to potential contention. we're now dependent on a genuine star wanting to come play with 1x all-star zach lavine and 2x all-star nikola vucevic. seems pretty far-fetched. but to answer the thread query, that apparently is the plan

And we still have PLENTY of assets to pull of another big deal in the offseason. Just need to be ready when the next star asks out.

no, no we don't have plenty of assets to land a star. we have a 2022 draft pick that projects to be middling and 2 young guys that will almost certainly never become all-stars in coby white and patrick williams

we now have 2 BORDERLINE all-stars (not all all-stars are created equal, obviously), one of whom has never had an impact on winning that comes anywhere close to his reputation as a player but will almost certainly be getting a max contract soon. and while i don't see it as a likely problem, there's no guarantee that lavine will even adapt well to playing with another quality option on offense

vucevic was obviously acquired in significant part to increase the chances of making the playoffs this season. even that is very unlikely. this is not a terrible trade simply because vucevic is on a very reasonable contract. but it's sure as hell nothing to get excited about. maybe if we were on the level of knicks fans...is that what we ARE now?

i would now wager that the orlando magic make a conference finals before the bulls do
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
User avatar
coldfish
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 60,569
And1: 37,824
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Location: Right in the middle
   

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#211 » by coldfish » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:40 am

If things continue like tonight, I'll change my username to "worldsbiggestidiot", refrain from discussing anything from sports to how to tie shoes and preemptively give myself a swirley every hour for the following week.

Not pretty at all.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,034
And1: 12,989
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#212 » by dice » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:48 am

we need only this year's celtics to recognize how mediocre a team with 2 all-stars can be

we need go back only 5 years AS BULLS FANS for an intimate memory of how mediocre a team w/ 2 all stars can be. and jimmy butler was a no-argument all-star
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
User avatar
nomorezorro
RealGM
Posts: 13,142
And1: 10,241
Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Location: bfk

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#213 » by nomorezorro » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:45 am

ok now the plan is to find an outstanding defensive PF
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
agkagk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,075
And1: 2,091
Joined: Sep 03, 2011

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#214 » by agkagk » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:56 am

Hello from toronto.

My first thought when I heard about the Vuc trade:

Bulls are prepping to offer Colby white in a sign and trade for a maxed out lonzo ball

Lonzo - lavine - lauri - williams - vuc

Find a few solid vets to round out the bench and you guys have a team that can make a lot of noise.

How much cap space are you projected to have? At a glance it appears to be a ton — I’m wondering if you’d have room for the bench and an upgrade at sf.
agkagk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,075
And1: 2,091
Joined: Sep 03, 2011

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#215 » by agkagk » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:06 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:You know, maybe I'm just being harsh on this guy. Maybe he actually has a huge impact on Orlando's success (or lack of, really) and it's all just the crap he's surrounded by that's been the cause of their struggles the whole time he's been there. So let's see how they've played with and without him. He's played 591 games and missed 101 games, so I'd say that's a pretty good sample size of them with and without him, over a loooong amount of time, with lots of different types of teammates and coaches. This is the kind of barometer that immediately makes a stud player look like Basketball Jesus. This is the stat where even a second-tier "star" like Jimmy Butler comes off like a superstar. Well…

Magic with Vucevic: 215-376, or a 29.8 win pace in an 82-game season
Magic without Vucevic: 32-69, or a 26 win pace

So yeah…they just went all-in on a guy who adds a whopping 4 wins to a 26-win team.

But wait a minute…a big chunk of those losses without him actually came in only one season, 2013-14, just his second in Orlando, when they went only 4-21 without him for some reason. Let's see the eight seasons he's played there without that one outlier year…

Magic with Vucevic: 196-338, or a 30.1 win pace
Magic without Vucevic: 28-48, or a 30.2 win pace

Uhhhh…yeah that's not good.

You know what? Let's go with those 4 wins. Yeah. That's better. Let's say this franchise just went all-in on a guy that adds 4 wins to a 26-win team.

Get that seventh spot in the trophy case ready, boys!


Pau Gasol never did anything in Memphis

Going all in is trading a bust and 2 protected 1st rounders? Huh?


Pau played for a cheap owner, if they were willing to go into the tax, they could have pushed through and made the finals.

Vuc hasn’t made an impact in Orlando’s winning percentage because he’s a centre and Orlando pretty much hasn’t had a a starting caliber point guard for his entire career.


I think this trade was a great first domino and a move you guys had to make. Go find a starting caliber playmaker that can defend and make a 3 and you’re a legit playoff team.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 29,731
And1: 11,787
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#216 » by Michael Jackson » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:59 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:You know, maybe I'm just being harsh on this guy. Maybe he actually has a huge impact on Orlando's success (or lack of, really) and it's all just the crap he's surrounded by that's been the cause of their struggles the whole time he's been there. So let's see how they've played with and without him. He's played 591 games and missed 101 games, so I'd say that's a pretty good sample size of them with and without him, over a loooong amount of time, with lots of different types of teammates and coaches. This is the kind of barometer that immediately makes a stud player look like Basketball Jesus. This is the stat where even a second-tier "star" like Jimmy Butler comes off like a superstar. Well…

Magic with Vucevic: 215-376, or a 29.8 win pace in an 82-game season
Magic without Vucevic: 32-69, or a 26 win pace

So yeah…they just went all-in on a guy who adds a whopping 4 wins to a 26-win team.

But wait a minute…a big chunk of those losses without him actually came in only one season, 2013-14, just his second in Orlando, when they went only 4-21 without him for some reason. Let's see the eight seasons he's played there without that one outlier year…

Magic with Vucevic: 196-338, or a 30.1 win pace
Magic without Vucevic: 28-48, or a 30.2 win pace

Uhhhh…yeah that's not good.

You know what? Let's go with those 4 wins. Yeah. That's better. Let's say this franchise just went all-in on a guy that adds 4 wins to a 26-win team.

Get that seventh spot in the trophy case ready, boys!


Pau Gasol never did anything in Memphis

Going all in is trading a bust and 2 protected 1st rounders? Huh?


I think you are sorely over-rating Vuc if you think him and Gasol are the same thing. Vuc was a smart upgrade but his not what Pao was.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,034
And1: 12,989
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#217 » by dice » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:45 pm

agkagk wrote:Hello from toronto.

My first thought when I heard about the Vuc trade:

Bulls are prepping to offer Colby white in a sign and trade for a maxed out lonzo ball

Lonzo - lavine - lauri - williams - vuc

Find a few solid vets to round out the bench and you guys have a team that can make a lot of noise.

How much cap space are you projected to have? At a glance it appears to be a ton — I’m wondering if you’d have room for the bench and an upgrade at sf.

did you just say "a maxed out lonzo ball"?

what world are we living in?

if lonzo ball was worth a max deal, and brandon ingram is worth a max deal, and they both play with zion...and bledsoe...do you honestly think the pelicans would be a sub-.500 team right now? they'd be condenders!
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
agkagk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,075
And1: 2,091
Joined: Sep 03, 2011

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#218 » by agkagk » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:35 pm

dice wrote:
agkagk wrote:Hello from toronto.

My first thought when I heard about the Vuc trade:

Bulls are prepping to offer Colby white in a sign and trade for a maxed out lonzo ball

Lonzo - lavine - lauri - williams - vuc

Find a few solid vets to round out the bench and you guys have a team that can make a lot of noise.

How much cap space are you projected to have? At a glance it appears to be a ton — I’m wondering if you’d have room for the bench and an upgrade at sf.

did you just say "a maxed out lonzo ball"?

what world are we living in?

if lonzo ball was worth a max deal, and brandon ingram is worth a max deal, and they both play with zion...and bledsoe...do you honestly think the pelicans would be a sub-.500 team right now? they'd be condenders!



Above average role players get around 17 - 22 million now.

The market is screwy.

Maybe not the max, but ball is going to get close to it.
HouseOfLight
Sophomore
Posts: 101
And1: 47
Joined: Feb 24, 2021

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#219 » by HouseOfLight » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:36 pm

dougthonus wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:HomoSapien hit the nail on the head. It's to make Chicago an attractive destination. Brooklyn wasn't attractive when Billy King was finally let go. They were reminiscent of Chicago, except without the coach or Zach LaVine. So even worse. Brooklyn knew no one was coming. Sean Marks decided to get to step 4, he needed to get through steps 1-3. And he did. He made Brooklyn attractive by building a competitive team of misfits, then slowly gathered assets. KD and KI looked at them as a team with a culture and identity. That's why in the end, they chose Brooklyn over the Knicks.

Houston under Daryl Morey. He inherited a broken down Yao and Tracy McGrady. What did he do? Same as Brooklyn would do years later. He didn't skip a step. He knew if he wanted Houston to be attractive, he needed to build some type of culture and competitiveness. He combined that with being aggressive to get Harden. Now, while that ended badly, they also got a good 8 years out of Harden in his prime. They competed for a chip. They were able to attract other players - Dwight, CP3.

And this is not a recent thing either. Miami - constant first round exits after their championship. They had a bad roster, but they instilled a culture of competitiveness. Now, everyone knew that Riley had a reputation of not wanting to tank and lose on a regular basis. He was making trades that would prevent a tank such as trading for Shawn Marion, signing a broken Jermaine O'Neal, etc. LeBron and Bosh go down there with Wade recruiting due to culture.

Orlando, back in 2000. They got TMac and Grant Hill due to a competitive culture that Pat Williams and Doc Rivers built the year before. They were competing with Darrell Armstrong of all people.

There are countless examples of this in NBA history. Players do not want to play for a bad culture, non-sense type atmosphere. They want their money and they want to ball while knowing their team is going to try to compete. For the past 10 years at least, the Bulls were seen as a clown show.


I agree that culture is important, but it's a weird thing. Under the same FO and Thibs, people would have said the Bulls had a good culture. We got numerous players for less money than they could have gotten elsewhere (Boozer, Dunleavy, Gasol, possibly Korver/Brewer as well).

Culture is a lot about your coach and how good your players are though. I don't think the culture has shifted meaningfully because the Bulls just acquired Vucevic. I do think it probably shifted meaningfully with the change in FO, the hiring of new basketball operations people to build out a larger more respectable staff, hiring minorities in several key positions, the bringing in of a well respected and well liked coach, and improvements on the team.

So yes, I do think culture is important, and I do think it is getting better. I don't think Vuc does much at all for that outside of any impact he simply has on wins and to the extent winning is just a proxy for culture.


Lol trading for the 3rd/4th best C in the game of basketball, in his prime, to help your already-present all star guard, is a HUGE deal in terms of players wanting to play for the Bulls. It speaks volumes about what the Bulls are willing to do to surround their top talent with other top talent, not to mention that ZLV & Vooch are very close friends, this was clearly something that had been planned & pre-meditated for weeks/months before it actually happened. This was a huge signal to the rest of the league that the infamous old ways of the Chicago Bulls are gone for good ie: being arguably the most anti-player NBA franchise

Also, Thibs is the least desirable coach to play for in the NBA. He was voted as such 1.5 years ago in some anonymous players poll. Boylin was right in front of him. Players adore Billy D, he’s a super player-friendly coach. Hiring him was a massive get for multiple reasons
HouseOfLight
Sophomore
Posts: 101
And1: 47
Joined: Feb 24, 2021

Re: What exactly is the plan? 

Post#220 » by HouseOfLight » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:39 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:You know, maybe I'm just being harsh on this guy. Maybe he actually has a huge impact on Orlando's success (or lack of, really) and it's all just the crap he's surrounded by that's been the cause of their struggles the whole time he's been there. So let's see how they've played with and without him. He's played 591 games and missed 101 games, so I'd say that's a pretty good sample size of them with and without him, over a loooong amount of time, with lots of different types of teammates and coaches. This is the kind of barometer that immediately makes a stud player look like Basketball Jesus. This is the stat where even a second-tier "star" like Jimmy Butler comes off like a superstar. Well…

Magic with Vucevic: 215-376, or a 29.8 win pace in an 82-game season
Magic without Vucevic: 32-69, or a 26 win pace

So yeah…they just went all-in on a guy who adds a whopping 4 wins to a 26-win team.

But wait a minute…a big chunk of those losses without him actually came in only one season, 2013-14, just his second in Orlando, when they went only 4-21 without him for some reason. Let's see the eight seasons he's played there without that one outlier year…

Magic with Vucevic: 196-338, or a 30.1 win pace
Magic without Vucevic: 28-48, or a 30.2 win pace

Uhhhh…yeah that's not good.

You know what? Let's go with those 4 wins. Yeah. That's better. Let's say this franchise just went all-in on a guy that adds 4 wins to a 26-win team.

Get that seventh spot in the trophy case ready, boys!


Pau Gasol never did anything in Memphis

Going all in is trading a bust and 2 protected 1st rounders? Huh?


I think you are sorely over-rating Vuc if you think him and Gasol are the same thing. Vuc was a smart upgrade but his not what Pao was.


Not really. They’re actually pretty close in terms of production. Both played for lousy teams with rotten management. Gasol is viewed as an all time great because he went & won some stuff with a better team eventually. Realistically, it’s a solid comparison . We’ll see what happens with Vooch in Chicago. Vooch is a top 3 Centre in the game of basketball, and Bulls fans will see that take effect soon enough

Return to Chicago Bulls