Rui Hachimura

[TGW]

Fwiw, many Bucks fans are convinced Rui will be a star. viewtopic.php?p=89883348#p89883348

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.

Really? Do you know what the Wizards record is with Rui Hachimura in the lineup? It's not a winning record, btw. Not even close.

Don't talk about wins and losses when it comes to the Wizards or Hachimura.

[nate33]

Fwiw, many Bucks fans are convinced Rui will be a star. viewtopic.php?p=89883348#p89883348

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.

Really? Do you know what the Wizards record is with Rui Hachimura in the lineup? It's not a winning record, btw. Not even close.

Don't talk about wins and losses when it comes to the Wizards or Hachimura.

It's worth mentioning that the Wizards are 0-7 without Hachimura in the lineup, including losses to Orlando twice, Chicago, New Orleans and Houston. They're 16-21 with him against much tougher competition. Only 5 of those 21 losses were to sub-.500 teams (and two of those were Memphis who is just 1 game under .500)

[Ruzious]

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.

Really? Do you know what the Wizards record is with Rui Hachimura in the lineup? It's not a winning record, btw. Not even close.

Don't talk about wins and losses when it comes to the Wizards or Hachimura.

It's worth mentioning that the Wizards are 0-7 without Hachimura in the lineup, including losses to Orlando twice, Chicago, New Orleans and Houston. They're 16-21 with him against much tougher competition. Only 5 of those 21 losses were to sub-.500 teams (and two of those were Memphis who is just 1 game under .500)

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

[prime1time]

Fwiw, many Bucks fans are convinced Rui will be a star. viewtopic.php?p=89883348#p89883348

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.

Really? Do you know what the Wizards record is with Rui Hachimura in the lineup? It's not a winning record, btw. Not even close.

Don't talk about wins and losses when it comes to the Wizards or Hachimura.

Again, I stand by my position. Because it reflects an organization's thought processes. Up until very recently, we have focused on trading away draft picks for players that are "sure things." Good organizations grow players within. Look at Toronto. Pascal Siakam. OG Anunoby. Fred VanVleet. They weren't good day one, but they continued to invest and grow them. Other than Beal there are no other long-term Wizards on the roster.

[NatP4]

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.

Really? Do you know what the Wizards record is with Rui Hachimura in the lineup? It's not a winning record, btw. Not even close.

Don't talk about wins and losses when it comes to the Wizards or Hachimura.

Again, I stand by my position. Because it reflects an organization's thought processes. Up until very recently, we have focused on trading away draft picks for players that are "sure things." Good organizations grow players within. Look at Toronto. Pascal Siakam. OG Anunoby. Fred VanVleet. They weren't good day one, but they continued to invest and grow them. Other than Beal there are no other long-term Wizards on the roster.

Good organizations also draft well.

[WallToWall]

Let's not get too overblown about him. I am a big supporter of his, but at this moment, there are limits to his game. You can certainly see the promise though. If you recall what Bradley Beal's 2nd and 3rd season were like, I think that is about where Rui is right now. Lots of promise, and given the fact that he has desire to improve, there is reason for optimism. His current trajectory is good to see. As a 3rd scorer, he has some freedom not afforded to the primary and secondary scorers on the team. Still 18 ppg over the last 10 games is good. As more of a judgement, you can see where he has improved his offensive game - driving to the basket, posting up, spot up 3's. He needs to do more of all these things. I would venture to say that his D is probably among the best on the team, at the moment. His perimeter D is probably the best on the team. I dont know for sure, but my eye test says so to me. Let's see where he goes from here.

[dckingsfan]

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

[Ruzious]

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

It's a good discussion of whether or not there's a department of redundant redundancies and how to minimize the negatives while accentuating the positives. To do so, the need for a shot-blocker was obvious, and that has partially been addressed with Gafford. And when all 3 can nail 3's, that goes a long way. Still, they all have to prove they're quality 3 point shooters - which may or may not happen.

[DCZards]

I believe that one of the keys to Rui's improved play in recent weeks is being able to play an extended string of games without having to shut it down due to injury, the pandemic or red eye.

[NatP4]

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

Becomes less of a problem if you have a 5 that can protect the rim and rebound outside of his area. Gafford is a good reason for optimism.

It also would help if you didn’t have a ball dominant PG that throws away 25 possessions a game.

[dckingsfan]

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

It's a good discussion of whether or not there's a department of redundant redundancies and how to minimize the negatives while accentuating the positives. To do so, the need for a shot-blocker was obvious, and that has partially been addressed with Gafford. And when all 3 can nail 3's, that goes a long way. Still, they all have to prove they're quality 3 point shooters - which may or may not happen.

Hmmm tridundant, hadn't considered that one

[nate33]

And switching him to the 3 full-time will mean he's got a significant strength & length advantage most of the time - if we have a legit PF. Avdija is going to have to get stronger and more confident to force opposing 4's to cover him rather than Rui. So Deni's hopeful improvements next season should make things easier for Rui next season. And on the defensive end, we get to see the effects of having a legit shot-blocker with Gafford. Gotta have reasons for optimism, and we actually have some.

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

It's a good discussion of whether or not there's a department of redundant redundancies and how to minimize the negatives while accentuating the positives. To do so, the need for a shot-blocker was obvious, and that has partially been addressed with Gafford. And when all 3 can nail 3's, that goes a long way. Still, they all have to prove they're quality 3 point shooters - which may or may not happen.

I'm not too worried about the positional redundancy between Hachimura and Avdija. I consider them both combo forwards, capable of defending either the SF or PF position interchangeably. In general, I would just put Hachimura on the better on-ball offensive player where his superior on ball defensive ability can be utilized, and put Avdija on the off-ball player where his superior help instincts can be utilized.

Offensively, I don't really see much distinction between SF and PF. You want them both to be able to shoot 3's, you want them both to be able to post up undersized guys, and you want them both to be able to face up slower guys.

[nate33]

I believe that one of the keys to Rui's improved play in recent weeks is being able to play an extended string of games without having to shut it down due to injury, the pandemic or red eye.

And to be clear, it's not like he is injury prone. The one injury he had was because he got his nuts crushed.

[DCZards]

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

I don't ever expect Deni to be good at blocking or altering shots. I don't think he has the hops or quickness for that. But Deni is a good defender who is better suited to defend an interior player like a PF while Rui is quicker and longer and better at defending perimeter players like SFs & SGs.

[nate33]

Let's not get too overblown about him. I am a big supporter of his, but at this moment, there are limits to his game. You can certainly see the promise though. If you recall what Bradley Beal's 2nd and 3rd season were like, I think that is about where Rui is right now. Lots of promise, and given the fact that he has desire to improve, there is reason for optimism. His current trajectory is good to see. As a 3rd scorer, he has some freedom not afforded to the primary and secondary scorers on the team. Still 18 ppg over the last 10 games is good. As more of a judgement, you can see where he has improved his offensive game - driving to the basket, posting up, spot up 3's. He needs to do more of all these things. I would venture to say that his D is probably among the best on the team, at the moment. His perimeter D is probably the best on the team. I dont know for sure, but my eye test says so to me. Let's see where he goes from here.

I like the comparison to Beal.

If you look at Beal's stats, he really wasn't a very good player for his entire rookie contract. He also showed very little statistical improvement. But if you watched him play, you could see that he was adding something to his game every offseason. He learned to do more and more things, each at an efficiency slightly less than ideal. In his 4th year, he sort of put it all together, making a big leap in usage as he began to consistently utilize all these new skills in games - ball handling, shot creation, midrange - but it still wasn't very helpful for winning because his efficiency was low.

But then in his 5th year, he made the leap. Everything fell into place and he was suddenly a multi-tool player who could beat you in a million ways, with efficiency. And he has only improved since then.

I feel like I'm seeing the same thing with Hachimura. Watching him play, I'm seeing him get better at things, even though his box score doesn't really agree. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a moment in a year or two where it all comes together and he is suddenly a really good player.

[NatP4]

Beal was a lot better than Hachimura in his first few seasons and exploded at age 23 (same age as Hachimura currently)

[dckingsfan]

This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

I don't ever expect Deni to be good at blocking or altering shots. I don't think he has the hops or quickness for that. But Deni is a good defender who is better suited to defend an interior player like a PF while Rui is quicker and longer and better at defending perimeter players like SFs & SGs.

With respect, Deni needs to get much stronger to defend PFs. And I am not seeing a "quickness" difference at this point. Deni may very well get there (become stronger and he may grow as well). But at this point neither are viable defenders at PF.

Both at this point are below average defenders, IMO. Which takes us back to the redundant/tridundant dilemma.

[dckingsfan]

Beal was a lot better than Hachimura in his first few seasons and exploded at age 23 (same age as Hachimura currently)

My argument(s) with that is:
1) Rui hasn't played as much basketball
2) Guards develop faster

[DCZards]

One of the biggest differences between Beal and Rui is confidence. Beal always played with confidence even when he struggled the first couple of years. Rui did not have that confidence from the outset of his NBA career but that seems to be changing/improving with each passing game.

This confidence gap between Beal and Rui may be because Beal is essentially a bball lifer while Rui came relatively late to the game.

[nate33]

Beal was a lot better than Hachimura in his first few seasons and exploded at age 23 (same age as Hachimura currently)

Go look at their numbers. This is a comparison between Rui's 2nd season at age 22, and Beal's 3rd season at age 21


Note that Beal had a TS% of .527 while Rui's is .563. Also factor that Rui is a better defender.

It's easy to forget that Beal really was not very good his first few years. He looked good (like Rui does), but he was pretty ineffective statistically.