The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[DCasey91]

I mean, this says enough about your opinion and winning basketball.

You have no clue about my opinion on winning
I already reiterated my idea to win go traditional many times here.

But a few too many people still think Ben is a PG lol
my lord

[syntax]

But a few too many people still think Ben is a PG lol
my lord

People like NBA coaches and GMs?

[DCasey91]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

[elchengue20]

I agree, but his defense is so elite than hes still a very good player. Hes like Pippen 2.0 on defense, maybe even better. He can slow down basically any player, nearly any position/skillset. And hes a great playmaker, specially in transition.

We should have traded him when the hype was huge and teams wanted to give us the farm for him. Right know i dont think thats the case anymore.

[Philly2good]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

We all know you hate Ben Simmons....yawn

[kio80]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

Classic case of turning from Ben love to Ben hate lol

Seen that a few times in this forum, just chill and enjoy the game, ain’t gonna beat the Nets and Lakers anyway, even if Ben averages 25 ppg


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[Philly2good]

DCasey91 knows more than Doc Rivers

[DCasey91]

I agree, but his defense is so elite than hes still a very good player. Hes like Pippen 2.0 on defense, maybe even better. He can slow down basically any player, nearly any position/skillset. And hes a great playmaker, specially in transition.

We should have traded him when the hype was huge and teams wanted to give us the farm for him. Right know i dont think thats the case anymore.

He is no where Pippen defensively the impact metrics bare it out he is top 3ish on that end I’ll I give him that elite. My take on Ben is done dusted (3rd best elite defensive player that only works with two offensive stud muffins if you want a chance at a chip). Ala GSW but more exposed then Green.

Transition accounts for very little in Playoff settings the bulk is in half court where Ben has shown to be a liability (having this team setup doesn’t help him at all either, same with Embiid so I give both a pass and assign what I think is their rating on a chip winning team 1st (Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq) and 3rd (Odom, Green, Marion ballpark)

I’ll always trade 3rd best for a potential or legitimate second/1st best always. Can’t die wondering not with Embiid’s direct prime which is short

No hate no harm no foul on Ben

Disappointment and acceptance of what is rather than what he should very easily be with some modicum of his own personal development around his age that was drafted played well then kept on improving as years gone by (which isn’t much offensively individually if we are being truely honest).

Ingram, SGA, Young, Williamson, Brown, Tatum, Heck even Ball and his younger brother, Fox, have kept on improving. Ben more or less has been the same one side better the other
But the one side is more worse than even I could of expected. He can shoot threes but the philosophy of not doing even big man stuff caps his own development. It’s on Ben and no one else

[Jhawk03]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

We all know you hate Ben Simmons....yawn

Look, I'm over all the Ben love and hate. Honestly the gap between the two is too large and makes an ant hill look like Mt Everest.

Nothing is worse than having THE MOST enigmatic player to ever play in the NBA. Do you really wanna know why Ben hasn't been dealt or won't be dealt... even for James f*king Harden? Here's a hint, it's because nobody knows what he can do. NOBODY, not even Ben Simmons knows. The time is coming however, so sit back and watch... he's 24 for crying out loud!

[DCasey91]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

We all know you hate Ben Simmons....yawn

Look, I'm over all the Ben love and hate. Honestly the gap between the two is too large and makes an ant hill look like Mt Everest.

Nothing is worse than having THE MOST enigmatic player to ever play in the NBA. Do you really wanna know why Ben hasn't been dealt or won't be dealt... even for James f*king Harden? Here's a hint, it's because nobody knows what he can do. NOBODY, not even Ben Simmons knows. The time is coming however, so sit back and watch... he's 24 for crying out loud!

Rockets owner man doubled down on leverage and lost big time. He was on the trade table for sure

Ben’s an enigma

He probably be dealt in the off-season or Harris

Ben could flourish or be even worse in another environment but it is what it is.

No elite/superstar jump is going to occur. There was a brief moment every year but then I had to remind myself who the player is. I rate him around 35 used to be 20-22 but then I looked at him from the top to the very bottom. He’s game won’t age gracefully can tell you that much.

[Hussien Fatal]

I agree, but his defense is so elite than hes still a very good player. Hes like Pippen 2.0 on defense, maybe even better. He can slow down basically any player, nearly any position/skillset. And hes a great playmaker, specially in transition.

We should have traded him when the hype was huge and teams wanted to give us the farm for him. Right know i dont think thats the case anymore.

He is no where Pippen defensively the impact metrics bare it out he is top 3ish on that end I’ll I give him that elite. My take on Ben is done dusted (3rd best elite defensive player that only works with two offensive stud muffins if you want a chance at a chip). Ala GSW but more exposed then Green.

Transition accounts for very little in Playoff settings the bulk is in half court where Ben has shown to be a liability (having this team setup doesn’t help him at all either, same with Embiid so I give both a pass and assign what I think is their rating on a chip winning team 1st (Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq) and 3rd (Odom, Green, Marion ballpark)

I’ll always trade 3rd best for a potential or legitimate second/1st best always. Can’t die wondering not with Embiid’s direct prime which is short

No hate no harm no foul on Ben

Disappointment and acceptance of what is rather than what he should very easily be with some modicum of his own personal development around his age that was drafted played well then kept on improving as years gone by (which isn’t much offensively individually if we are being truely honest).

Ingram, SGA, Young, Williamson, Brown, Tatum, Heck even Ball and his younger brother, Fox, have kept on improving. Ben more or less has been the same one side better the other
But the one side is more worse than even I could of expected. He can shoot threes but the philosophy of not doing even big man stuff caps his own development. It’s on Ben and no one else

Ben is very comparable to pip defensively. Ben can guard more positions and he’s a better athlete. And he has a better defensive stance than pip. I’m not worried about Ben being behind him in advanced metrics because the game is extremely different from the 90’s. Ben can guard all 5 positions something pip could never do. Ben is also great at guarding smaller guys too. I like Ben on defense over pip

[DCasey91]

I agree, but his defense is so elite than hes still a very good player. Hes like Pippen 2.0 on defense, maybe even better. He can slow down basically any player, nearly any position/skillset. And hes a great playmaker, specially in transition.

We should have traded him when the hype was huge and teams wanted to give us the farm for him. Right know i dont think thats the case anymore.

He is no where Pippen defensively the impact metrics bare it out he is top 3ish on that end I’ll I give him that elite. My take on Ben is done dusted (3rd best elite defensive player that only works with two offensive stud muffins if you want a chance at a chip). Ala GSW but more exposed then Green.

Transition accounts for very little in Playoff settings the bulk is in half court where Ben has shown to be a liability (having this team setup doesn’t help him at all either, same with Embiid so I give both a pass and assign what I think is their rating on a chip winning team 1st (Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq) and 3rd (Odom, Green, Marion ballpark)

I’ll always trade 3rd best for a potential or legitimate second/1st best always. Can’t die wondering not with Embiid’s direct prime which is short

No hate no harm no foul on Ben

Disappointment and acceptance of what is rather than what he should very easily be with some modicum of his own personal development around his age that was drafted played well then kept on improving as years gone by (which isn’t much offensively individually if we are being truely honest).

Ingram, SGA, Young, Williamson, Brown, Tatum, Heck even Ball and his younger brother, Fox, have kept on improving. Ben more or less has been the same one side better the other
But the one side is more worse than even I could of expected. He can shoot threes but the philosophy of not doing even big man stuff caps his own development. It’s on Ben and no one else

Ben is very comparable to pip defensively. Ben can guard more positions and he’s a better athlete. And he has a better defensive stance than pip. I’m not worried about Ben being behind him in advanced metrics because the game is extremely different from the 90’s. Ben can guard all 5 positions something pip could never do. Ben is also great at guarding smaller guys too. I like Ben on defense over pip

Well that’s subjective
But historically and impact measurements paint a different story

Pippen has great length
Simmons is not a better functional athlete than Pippen cmon lol Pippen is extremely fluid for his size
Ben moves extremely well maybe the fastest ever in a straight line. Sports don’t play in straight lines
Where’s Ben’s lateral movement, vertically when finishing at the rim?
Watch his next game very closely his psyique hinders him sometimes along with his play style (lack of decelerating/lateral movement)
Doesn’t help he doesn’t shoot cuts of so many easy scoring opportunities it’s simple to plan for him hence why his range drops so much for me when pressure is applied
Simmons has T. rex arms (hence one of the half dozen reasons he can’t finish like all elite big man can）

[Mik317]

who gives a **** what his position is listed as lol.

[DCasey91]

who gives a **** what his position is listed as lol.

You know that’s part of problem giving Ben the ball all those year ago under Brett look how it’s come full circle. We got a PG and now Ben is playing PF (actually he’s been playing more of that role lately)

Full circle.

Sports positions are there for a reason not some random listing name lol.

[Zumramania]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

Classic case of turning from Ben love to Ben hate lol

Seen that a few times in this forum, just chill and enjoy the game, ain’t gonna beat the Nets and Lakers anyway, even if Ben averages 25 ppg


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DCasey is giving you facts and arguments and all most of you can say is that he's a Ben hater. If Ben averaged 25 ppg against Nets or Lakers, while maintaining his defense, we would have probably beaten them lol. But that would have been a huge jump for him, since he averages 15.9 ppg in this season and in two seasons he played in the playoffs (his first two seasons though) he averaged 15 ppg. However, I somehow have a hunch Ben is going to be a bit better in this years' playoffs than most of us expect. Not necessarily in terms of ppg but in terms of his overall impact.

[kio80]

Okay if people think Ben is a PG that’s fine be ready to be disappointed again and again like clockwork

you know he’s bog average inside 5 ft right? Not even close to elite for a person of his size... individually outside of 5ft invisible, even off ball cutting/lob target basic stuff he’s pretty bad at that.

Fact 1. he has less range than Prime Shaq
Fact 2. he has less range than Drummond
Fact 3. He has the worst range recorded in the NBA I believe at 4.5 feet lol.

Take away his dunks (because he can’t do much else in which they’re are plenty).
His actual finishing skills are doo doo for his size lol

Sure he’s a PG yes PG’s aren’t outside backcourt players

Zion is miles better then Ben right now.

Should have seen it in his third season and made a move then.

Classic case of turning from Ben love to Ben hate lol

Seen that a few times in this forum, just chill and enjoy the game, ain’t gonna beat the Nets and Lakers anyway, even if Ben averages 25 ppg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DCasey is giving you facts and arguments and all most of you can say is that he's a Ben hater. If Ben averaged 25 ppg against Nets or Lakers, while maintaining his defense, we would have probably beaten them lol. But that would have been a huge jump for him, since he averages 15.9 ppg in this season and in two seasons he played in the playoffs (his first two seasons though) he averaged 15 ppg. However, I somehow have a hunch Ben is going to be a bit better in this years' playoffs than most of us expect.

No I have nothing against DCasey’s facts and arguments, I guess you haven’t been around here long enough to see how he was using the facts and arguments on the other side of the spectrum just a while ago, it’s a forum, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I just find this sudden gear shift highly interesting.


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[DCasey91]

Classic case of turning from Ben love to Ben hate lol

Seen that a few times in this forum, just chill and enjoy the game, ain’t gonna beat the Nets and Lakers anyway, even if Ben averages 25 ppg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DCasey is giving you facts and arguments and all most of you can say is that he's a Ben hater. If Ben averaged 25 ppg against Nets or Lakers, while maintaining his defense, we would have probably beaten them lol. But that would have been a huge jump for him, since he averages 15.9 ppg in this season and in two seasons he played in the playoffs (his first two seasons though) he averaged 15 ppg. However, I somehow have a hunch Ben is going to be a bit better in this years' playoffs than most of us expect.

No I have nothing against DCasey’s facts and arguments, I guess you haven’t been around here long enough to see how he was using the facts and arguments on the other side of the spectrum just a while ago, it’s a forum, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I just find this sudden gear shift highly interesting.


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Btw I always like discussing/arguing things lol.
I gave my piece on why Ben could be elite with the ideal system around him
Also the reason I have him around the 35 mark now.
The gear shift is that Ben is highly dependent and needs very specific players around him. And he’s more of a role piece then the main core (I.e 3rd) his role though as I said before can be exposed more than Green could be (non shooting).

A different Green first name Danny he is very good in his role because he does it to a tee.

It’s hard to define Ben’s role because of limitations.
you can’t build around him (because then the build around a would be better players anyway, you wouldn’t want to build around a complimentary player)

Thought he would take over more with Embiid out, but didn’t, know he’s playing a more PF/Big Man role and will continue to do so when Hill & Embiid comes back (one big flash the Jazz game) outside of that game performance have fallen in the Atypical Ben range.

Odom for his draft comp was kind of like a perfect comparison imo.

The disappointment comes from having such a high base to go off and hasn’t shown to me to make that jump that all elite players make. It his 4/5th season now and the skills there are more or less the same theres isn’t a huge discrepancy or outlier development happening with him. He’s great on defense so double down on it

Maybe investing all his efforts into defense may turn out to be better in the end. Dennis Rodman without the reboundin/Pippen without a jumper/Marion maybe?

7/10/13/3/1 statlines possibly to come?

That’s all well and good but there needs to a be a huge juggernaut offensive offset to promote his positives (defense) and negate/hide his weaknesses (Offense).

Correct me if I’m wrong

But Embiid/Simmons/Thybulle have like a 97 Defensive rating

Now you can compromise the defense to like 105ish for fully loaded offense because as good as the fit is defensively which is superb the fit there offensively leaves a whole lot to be desired. A Beal type would be right up that alley along those three.

[phifans]

Well a serious question. Who's having a bigger impact on the court to this team right now between Ben and Tobi ?

[DCasey91]

Well a serious question. Who's having a bigger impact on the court in to this team right now between Ben and Tobi ?

Tobi definetly is though I’m very low on his archetype in a championship winning core. Not an elite PF that’s at best an average defender.
Good at a things master of none type deal.

Not good enough to be 2nd option Not specific enough to be third (needs the ball in hand to be effective).

The Rodman/Pippen/Marion scenario with Ben is on the cards though.

Hopefully he strings out a 20/8/3 Statline in the playoffs 55 ts 35% 3 ball range I’d take it for Harris.

[76ciology]

I like how he’s playing lately prior to this cold stretch.

But you have to accept Ben for who he is.

He is NOT a natural scorer. He may score more than 20 on some games, but you should not rely for it to win you games.

Scoring more than 20 for Ben is like asking Carmelo Anthony to average more than 5 assists per game. Sure, they can from time to time. But it’s just not natural for them.

The fact that he’s focusing more on his defense, says that he wants people to stop looking at his offense.

Personally, I’d rather have an average to above average defensive wing that can get me more than 20ppg.