2020-2021 Regular Season Game 46: Orlando Magic (15-30) at Los Angeles Lakers (29-17)

[zaymon]

Because those guys are low ceiling bench players who are who they are and aren't part of our future. Young "core" players have more room to grow and more potential... they should be coached the most and held to a higher standard or else we're just wasting our time.

This is theoretically a good point.

But you know as well as I know that Steve Clifford isn't concerned about the future. He openly admitted as recently as yesterday that his only goal is win the games right in front of him.

All Clifford is trying to accomplish with young guys from a developmental perspective is get them in a position where they can best perform the specific role that the coaching staff has laid out for them because that's what he believes will be the best way for that player to help him win games in the present.

I mean after the game the sheer thought that Hampton might have to play some point guard (a role I don't even think he's that suited for, but that irrelevant) because MCW might be out a little bit seemed to disgust Clifford because it goes against the staff's plan of working Hampton for the same amount of minutes at the same position with the same teammates running the same sets.

As a coach your one job is to get the best out of every player that you field on the court... and those that are at your disposal. By doing so... you see what you truly have, where improvements can be made, what works great and what doesn't. If things are done half assed.... you could have diamonds in the rough and possibly not as much work to do. But yes... as i've said... the best case scenario is.... we lose every game by only a couple of points every night. Which shows signs that we are further along than we think and the players need a little seasoning, and the coach is still fitting of the task. otherwise... players get traded and coaches get fired and we have to start from scratch even if we had a possible good thing happening.

I truly believed that this team was on the right track to being a contender... but these injuries killed the season and the management made the right decision to pivot and put themselves in a great position to succeed. Clifford's coaching did ad value to gordon, fournier and vuc... if he wasn't "forcing those wins" the return might not have been as significant. But... we never know.

Thats a great point. I think Knightro understands it backwords. Clifford cares about his players thats why he wants to win. What will happen with majority of our players if we dont start to win soon ? Propably out of the nba. He cared about Vucevic and now he is gone becouse we didnt won enough. Clifford is not stupid he knows how it works. I think Weltman knows it too and thats why he is ok with Clifford trying to win. Thats a price for great coach.

[pepe1991]

I think lot of posters here will be crying long after Clifford is gone as team will go through typical crappy list of crappy coaches like Brian Shaw, Luke Walton, JV, Earl Watson and army of unproven young coaches that have philosophies but zero mentorship or leadership qualities and therfore are terrible fits for young teams.

For every Brad Stevens there are 5 JVs , Fred Hoiberg's and Luke Walton's of the world who have no freaking clue what they are doing.


We know for fact what does NOT work. We lived through that era. Young players + **** coach. If you need to refresh your memory

“It was real tough,” Oladipo said on the podcast. “It was a lot of young guys trying to prove themselves. A lot of young guys trying to prove I am that guy. It was almost like we were in battle against each other when we played instead of trying to work together to try to get a win. It was tough.

[pepe1991]

btw if Clifford qoutes are treated as "throwing shade" are Weltman comments on Bamba the same?

Weltman – ‘It’s not matter of being "content." There’s been no other option. Facts are facts: Mo hasn’t had a summer yet (in which he was healthy enough to make significant gains), and Mo hasn’t really been able to enter a season in shape. He had his tibia stress fracture his first season, and he wasn’t able to do anything over the summer. Not because of anything he had control over, he showed up to camp out of shape. The same thing happened this year because of his COVID complications. It’s hard to generate momentum and grow your game when you don’t have offseasons and when you come into the season not only without having been able to condition and practice but also come in out of shape. And then this year it’s been compounded even more because there are no practices. So Mo’s just been continuously behind the eight ball, and it’s just been a series of unfortunate events.

That being said, I think Mo’s general awareness of what it takes to be a successful NBA player has improved by leaps and bounds since he’s gotten here. His preparation time, his understanding of the kind of work that’s necessary and what matters on winning teams have grown greatly.

I don’t know what this will look like, but I know that Mo is hungry and Mo has a lot to prove, and it’s up to him to prove it. I don’t expect things to change overnight because this season there won’t be many practices. But making all the moves that we’ve made will create opportunities for all of our young players, and Mo’s one of them. Hopefully, he can start to take steps forward this year and have a great offseason and come back a vastly improved player. I think that’s within his reach. I know it’s what his goal is. We still are excited about what Mo could become"

Guy litearlly said that Bamba is out of shape every year. That's your president of basketball operations that drafted him.

[basketballRob]

I was a little hard on Cliff before, but now I can see that he can take slightly above average players and make them all stars. He did it with Kemba and Vuc.

Thibs is able to do this also. Look at Julius Randle. Also he developed Jimmy Butler.

Remember Jerry Sloan? He took Karl Malone and helped make him become a HOF. He put up better stats in the pros than college. Stockton wasn't projected to be anything either.

Cliff will probably turn Bacon into a 20 ppg guy the rest of the season and we have a team option for 1.6m next season. Not that I want to keep Bacon, but he might get us a draft pick, if he's averaging 15-20 ppg.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
0

[RookieStar]

Yeah..I changed my mind.. if Cliff was pissed because of bad habits, then he has every right to be. Our players might know the big picture about Cade/Suggs/Green but its no excuse not to play the right way ESPECIALLY if they are rookies.

We don't want them to evolve into a player that doesn't box out, commits silly fouls, doesn't play D, late in rotations and etc all because they got away with it when they started in the league.

It's not exactly fair to call them bad habits. A 20 year old with about 80 minutes of NBA experience committed a foul on Gasol with the shot clock winding down. He made a mistake. It happens. I didn't see the rebound he was talking about, but it isn't universally accepted that you don't start a fast break until the rebound is secured. This is just how Clifford chooses to skin his cats.

What irritates me is that Clifford isn't even-handed. I don't recall him ever throwing a tantrum when Augustin failed to box out and Augustin never boxed out. MCW played like **** last night. Bacon wasted numerous offensive possessions by running up the floor and taking low-percentage shots early in the clock. I just don't know why you'd single either of them out for praise. There were any number of mistakes that influenced the outcome of that game, but some are shrugged off while others are treated as egregious sins. He couldn't possibly have been that upset at the outcome and there was certainly a better way to handle it. He was just posturing for the youngsters. If you are one of his favorites, you can get away with murder. If you aren't, he will put you in the dog house and then try to explain to everyone that he is doing you a favor.

Clifford is a neanderthal. You could conceivably do worse, but has to be one of the worst coaches that has a head coaching job in the NBA. He isn't a teacher. He is a disciplinarian.

I still remember when I was little during basketball camps and when we did showboating or did something stupid like cheat off defense to run ahead for a fast break, the coach would yell at us and punish us. That left a lasting impression on me to do the right play. Like play defense with hands up, box out your man and secure the rebound, pass it to the ball handler THEN you can run for the fast break. Things like that stay with you until you are in the late teens and twenties ( for me )

Now if what our 20yr old did was wrong and he didnt get called out or felt the displeasure on it, he might think it's ok to do it next time, and the next and the next.. after all we are tanking right? What happens when we are contending to the PO or ring? That habit wont be hard to break.

P.S for a really young team like us ( 3 rookies in Cole Chuma and RJ ) we might need a disciplinarian to instill proper attitude. Unless you want a player coach like Fitzdale in NY last year where when stupid ish is done by the players he just nods and say good job? Compare that to what Thibs is doing for them now.

[Xatticus]

I think lot of posters here will be crying long after Clifford is gone as team will go through typical crappy list of crappy coaches like Brian Shaw, Luke Walton, JV, Earl Watson and army of unproven young coaches that have philosophies but zero mentorship or leadership qualities and therfore are terrible fits for young teams.

For every Brad Stevens there are 5 JVs , Fred Hoiberg's and Luke Walton's of the world who have no freaking clue what they are doing.


We know for fact what does NOT work. We lived through that era. Young players + **** coach. If you need to refresh your memory

“It was real tough,” Oladipo said on the podcast. “It was a lot of young guys trying to prove themselves. A lot of young guys trying to prove I am that guy. It was almost like we were in battle against each other when we played instead of trying to work together to try to get a win. It was tough.

False Dilemma Fallacy

[drsd]

With this loss, Orlando is now a full 2-games behind the 5th worst team Washington - a game behind in the win column - and now only 1 1/2 games better than the 3rd worst team Houston (the Rockets won again).

The Magic is now 2-13 in its last 15 games (a 13.33% "winning" rate). That is tied with Houston for the league worst.


..

We need to keep it up, I think Toronto is trying to sneak up on us.

Yes Toronto lost, but that means the Pistons won. So that's a half-glass full thought.


..

[Skybox]

I think lot of posters here will be crying long after Clifford is gone as team will go through typical crappy list of crappy coaches like Brian Shaw, Luke Walton, JV, Earl Watson and army of unproven young coaches that have philosophies but zero mentorship or leadership qualities and therfore are terrible fits for young teams.

For every Brad Stevens there are 5 JVs , Fred Hoiberg's and Luke Walton's of the world who have no freaking clue what they are doing.


We know for fact what does NOT work. We lived through that era. Young players + **** coach. If you need to refresh your memory

“It was real tough,” Oladipo said on the podcast. “It was a lot of young guys trying to prove themselves. A lot of young guys trying to prove I am that guy. It was almost like we were in battle against each other when we played instead of trying to work together to try to get a win. It was tough.

As much as I want that "Wonder Boy" coach to burst into the NBA like Doc Rivers' Coach of the Year rookie campaign, this is largely true. Clifford absolutely makes the best out of what he's got, plays it as safe and certain and fundamentally sound as possible. I can really appreciate that...In this time of massive change, it's hard not to romanticize the idea of a boy genius coach coming in and turning things around faster than any individual player ever could. But, you're right, there are 10 Brian Shaws for every Doc situation...Nick Nurse was the latest great story, but he was already in the organization and well-known to the team, so it's a little less risky than taking a shot at some shiny new college coach.

[thelead]

I think lot of posters here will be crying long after Clifford is gone as team will go through typical crappy list of crappy coaches like Brian Shaw, Luke Walton, JV, Earl Watson and army of unproven young coaches that have philosophies but zero mentorship or leadership qualities and therfore are terrible fits for young teams.

For every Brad Stevens there are 5 JVs , Fred Hoiberg's and Luke Walton's of the world who have no freaking clue what they are doing.


We know for fact what does NOT work. We lived through that era. Young players + **** coach. If you need to refresh your memory

“It was real tough,” Oladipo said on the podcast. “It was a lot of young guys trying to prove themselves. A lot of young guys trying to prove I am that guy. It was almost like we were in battle against each other when we played instead of trying to work together to try to get a win. It was tough.

Stop telling me how I will feel about a decision that I will have zero input/output on.

Guess what? We traded Vuc and I don't miss him and I guarantee you that I won't. There will be zero days where I'm negatively affected by him not being here.

Does that mean that I hate Vuc? No. I think he's a great guy. But that doesn't mean I want him on the team. I had zero impact on him coming here, his departure, or his replacements but I am happy, and will continue to be happy, with the direction of this team now that he's gone.

Same goes for Clifford.