Complaints re the Cavs containment

[jbk1234]

If the Cavs as a team can't consistently shoot better than 30% from 3 point range, nothing is going to change, and just not taking those shots isn't going to work either.

There are 100 players in the NBA who shoot over 40% from 3. That's what they're up against.

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[JonFromVA]

They know damn well what they have already

If they did, they'd make smarter decisions.

My opinion is this roster was engaged and winning playing hustle defense and even flashes of Sexland looked possible prior to teams taking notice and after that the injuries piled up the losing piled up the adjustments have failed the in game adjustments have intentionally disappeared the lack of play time of productive players outside the core has been negligible . They know exactly what they doing it's called punting on the season and pretending they are worse than they are. It is impossible to watch at this point knowing what they are capable of is much better.
It should not have to be this hard to rebuild but thats the problem with the NBA

There are going to be some unwatchable games when filling out a roster with gleaguers and near gleagers, but we've been competitive in 5 or 6 of our past 8 games.

We've had a hard time all season sustaining our starting lineup (even if ignore Kevin Love).

[JonFromVA]

If the Cavs as a team can't consistently shoot better than 30% from 3 point range, nothing is going to change, and just not taking those shots isn't going to work either.

There are 100 players in the NBA who shoot over 40% from 3. That's what they're up against.

Help isn't coming from Windler, Fedor is reporting he's been dealing with knee pain and is going to have it evaluated.

The Cavs have 6 potentially active players on the roster shooting 37% or higher from 3pt (7 if you include Jarrett Allen :O).

Either JBB never got the memo that having only 1 or 2 shooters on the floor at the same time as your ball handler wasn't sufficient, or he doesn't care because the team has goals that don't allow him to focus on just that area or just this season.

I mean for instance, we all hope Isaac develops a 3pt shot, but it's clearly not there and while his scoring near the rim is fine, he's not generating enough of it to counter how lousy his shooting has been outside of 3ft. We're investing minutes in to his development for the sake of the team's future and that's that.

Not to blame it all on Isaac, even with a properly spaced floor, our guards need to do a better job looking for shooters rather than looking for those floaters and pull up J's; but when the players being left open constantly brick those shots it's understandable why that may be their second or third thought on their mind while trying to score.

[Stillwater]

If they did, they'd make smarter decisions.

My opinion is this roster was engaged and winning playing hustle defense and even flashes of Sexland looked possible prior to teams taking notice and after that the injuries piled up the losing piled up the adjustments have failed the in game adjustments have intentionally disappeared the lack of play time of productive players outside the core has been negligible . They know exactly what they doing it's called punting on the season and pretending they are worse than they are. It is impossible to watch at this point knowing what they are capable of is much better.
It should not have to be this hard to rebuild but thats the problem with the NBA

There are going to be some unwatchable games when filling out a roster with gleaguers and near gleagers, but we've been competitive in 5 or 6 of our past 8 games.

We've had a hard time all season sustaining our starting lineup (even if ignore Kevin Love).

I commend you for your optimism in the face of failure but imo Okoro is digging a very deep hole to climb out of and if anyone was watching the Cavs they might say they drafted the worst starter in the NBA 2 seasons in a row. All they have right now is development so they might as well let them get the burn but not making in game adjustments is not a good way to develop your players

[JonFromVA]

My opinion is this roster was engaged and winning playing hustle defense and even flashes of Sexland looked possible prior to teams taking notice and after that the injuries piled up the losing piled up the adjustments have failed the in game adjustments have intentionally disappeared the lack of play time of productive players outside the core has been negligible . They know exactly what they doing it's called punting on the season and pretending they are worse than they are. It is impossible to watch at this point knowing what they are capable of is much better.
It should not have to be this hard to rebuild but thats the problem with the NBA

There are going to be some unwatchable games when filling out a roster with gleaguers and near gleagers, but we've been competitive in 5 or 6 of our past 8 games.

We've had a hard time all season sustaining our starting lineup (even if ignore Kevin Love).

I commend you for your optimism in the face of failure but imo Okoro is digging a very deep hole to climb out of and if anyone was watching the Cavs they might say they drafted the worst starter in the NBA 2 seasons in a row. All they have right now is development so they might as well let them get the burn but not making in game adjustments is not a good way to develop your players

Don't you mean 3 years in a row?

I'd say there's little evidence that Isaac is in any sort of hole, it's just that on any team trying to win, he'd be getting his minutes in the Gleague and playing limited minutes off the bench. He doesn't even look rattled by what he's going through, and even if he was that wouldn't worry me long-term.

And unfortunately there isn't just one problem with the team that needs to be solved, there's a plethora. For instance, a more experienced team would fit Isaac in to situations where he can thrive. Rather than ask him to defend the best player on the team, have him go up against another young player or a backup. Then involve him in cuts where he can just drive to the rim. Maybe set him up for some short range J's?

The minutes we shovel on our young player are valuable, but it quickly beats whatever value they had out of them. Which I suppose is fine as long as the Cavs stay committed long-term to the development of these players rather than looking to just flip them for players who already know what they're doing.

Is rebuilding only fun when you're hitting on franchise players in the draft? Most players take a long time to figure out how to win.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Every time I realize how poorly our rebuild is going, I at least comfort myself by thinking that at least we aren't minnesota.

[Stillwater]

There are going to be some unwatchable games when filling out a roster with gleaguers and near gleagers, but we've been competitive in 5 or 6 of our past 8 games.

We've had a hard time all season sustaining our starting lineup (even if ignore Kevin Love).

I commend you for your optimism in the face of failure but imo Okoro is digging a very deep hole to climb out of and if anyone was watching the Cavs they might say they drafted the worst starter in the NBA 2 seasons in a row. All they have right now is development so they might as well let them get the burn but not making in game adjustments is not a good way to develop your players

Don't you mean 3 years in a row?

I'd say there's little evidence that Isaac is in any sort of hole, it's just that on any team trying to win, he'd be getting his minutes in the Gleague and playing limited minutes off the bench. He doesn't even look rattled by what he's going through, and even if he was that wouldn't worry me long-term.

And unfortunately there isn't just one problem with the team that needs to be solved, there's a plethora. For instance, a more experienced team would fit Isaac in to situations where he can thrive. Rather than ask him to defend the best player on the team, have him go up against another young player or a backup. Then involve him in cuts where he can just drive to the rim. Maybe set him up for some short range J's?

The minutes we shovel on our young player are valuable, but it quickly beats whatever value they had out of them. Which I suppose is fine as long as the Cavs stay committed long-term to the development of these players rather than looking to just flip them for players who already know what they're doing.

Is rebuilding only fun when you're hitting on franchise players in the draft? Most players take a long time to figure out how to win.

Yeah Sexton was not the worst starter as a rookie by any measure but whatever helps your argument right lol
DG got a pass for his injuries , Okoro I guess gets one for having to play during a pandemic where they cant even coach them up besides in game etc.
I am not interested in the long delayed process of holding back the system and plays that worked early in the season anymore in the name of tanking or overplaying and calling it developing of one rookie whos main need is too be putting up 2000 shots a day in the gym over anything else.

[JonFromVA]

I commend you for your optimism in the face of failure but imo Okoro is digging a very deep hole to climb out of and if anyone was watching the Cavs they might say they drafted the worst starter in the NBA 2 seasons in a row. All they have right now is development so they might as well let them get the burn but not making in game adjustments is not a good way to develop your players

Don't you mean 3 years in a row?

I'd say there's little evidence that Isaac is in any sort of hole, it's just that on any team trying to win, he'd be getting his minutes in the Gleague and playing limited minutes off the bench. He doesn't even look rattled by what he's going through, and even if he was that wouldn't worry me long-term.

And unfortunately there isn't just one problem with the team that needs to be solved, there's a plethora. For instance, a more experienced team would fit Isaac in to situations where he can thrive. Rather than ask him to defend the best player on the team, have him go up against another young player or a backup. Then involve him in cuts where he can just drive to the rim. Maybe set him up for some short range J's?

The minutes we shovel on our young player are valuable, but it quickly beats whatever value they had out of them. Which I suppose is fine as long as the Cavs stay committed long-term to the development of these players rather than looking to just flip them for players who already know what they're doing.

Is rebuilding only fun when you're hitting on franchise players in the draft? Most players take a long time to figure out how to win.

Yeah Sexton was not the worst starter as a rookie by any measure but whatever helps your argument right lol
DG got a pass for his injuries , Okoro I guess gets one for having to play during a pandemic where they cant even coach them up besides in game etc.
I am not interested in the long delayed process of holding back the system and plays that worked early in the season anymore in the name of tanking or overplaying and calling it developing of one rookie whos main need is too be putting up 2000 shots a day in the gym over anything else.

How about this measure?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2019/page/13

Collin was rated 511th out of 513 players by the "measure" called "RPM".

I'm sure I can find more, if you don't feel that gets my point across and agree to pay me $500 in advance for wasting my time.

[Stillwater]

Don't you mean 3 years in a row?

I'd say there's little evidence that Isaac is in any sort of hole, it's just that on any team trying to win, he'd be getting his minutes in the Gleague and playing limited minutes off the bench. He doesn't even look rattled by what he's going through, and even if he was that wouldn't worry me long-term.

And unfortunately there isn't just one problem with the team that needs to be solved, there's a plethora. For instance, a more experienced team would fit Isaac in to situations where he can thrive. Rather than ask him to defend the best player on the team, have him go up against another young player or a backup. Then involve him in cuts where he can just drive to the rim. Maybe set him up for some short range J's?

The minutes we shovel on our young player are valuable, but it quickly beats whatever value they had out of them. Which I suppose is fine as long as the Cavs stay committed long-term to the development of these players rather than looking to just flip them for players who already know what they're doing.

Is rebuilding only fun when you're hitting on franchise players in the draft? Most players take a long time to figure out how to win.

Yeah Sexton was not the worst starter as a rookie by any measure but whatever helps your argument right lol
DG got a pass for his injuries , Okoro I guess gets one for having to play during a pandemic where they cant even coach them up besides in game etc.
I am not interested in the long delayed process of holding back the system and plays that worked early in the season anymore in the name of tanking or overplaying and calling it developing of one rookie whos main need is too be putting up 2000 shots a day in the gym over anything else.

How about this measure?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2019/page/13

Collin was rated 511th out of 513 players by the "measure" called "RPM".

I'm sure I can find more, if you don't feel that gets my point across and agree to pay me $500 in advance for wasting my time.

what was your buddies RPM last season?
I get what you are saying but individual stats say Sexton was nowhere near that bad of a player. Nothing about his game suggested anything was close to as disappointing as DG or Okoro but playing with disgruntled vets in a season after a long playoff run also did not help Sexton on the team oriented stat game like RPM or any other rating that always factors in more than the player themselves

[JonFromVA]

Yeah Sexton was not the worst starter as a rookie by any measure but whatever helps your argument right lol
DG got a pass for his injuries , Okoro I guess gets one for having to play during a pandemic where they cant even coach them up besides in game etc.
I am not interested in the long delayed process of holding back the system and plays that worked early in the season anymore in the name of tanking or overplaying and calling it developing of one rookie whos main need is too be putting up 2000 shots a day in the gym over anything else.

How about this measure?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2019/page/13

Collin was rated 511th out of 513 players by the "measure" called "RPM".

I'm sure I can find more, if you don't feel that gets my point across and agree to pay me $500 in advance for wasting my time.

what was your buddies RPM last season?
I get what you are saying but individual stats say Sexton was nowhere near that bad of a player. Nothing about his game suggested anything was close to as disappointing as DG or Okoro but playing with disgruntled vets in a season after a long playoff run also did not help Sexton on the team oriented stat game like RPM or any other rating that always factors in more than the player themselves

The hole in your theory is that Collin's teammates still managed to finish above him in RPM, and they dealt with the same circumstances he did.

But there's lots of ways to look at this (maybe you would like to suggest your own measure?)

Like for instance, the Cavs were 7.9 points better with Collin off the floor than on as a rook, 2.1 better with Darius off as a rook, and 5.6 better with Okoro off.

Collin's negative impact was the worst of the 3, but they all had/are having a negative impact on the Cavs.


But yeah, whatever ... go ahead and write him off based on his rookie season.

[Stillwater]

How about this measure?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2019/page/13

Collin was rated 511th out of 513 players by the "measure" called "RPM".

I'm sure I can find more, if you don't feel that gets my point across and agree to pay me $500 in advance for wasting my time.

what was your buddies RPM last season?
I get what you are saying but individual stats say Sexton was nowhere near that bad of a player. Nothing about his game suggested anything was close to as disappointing as DG or Okoro but playing with disgruntled vets in a season after a long playoff run also did not help Sexton on the team oriented stat game like RPM or any other rating that always factors in more than the player themselves

The hole in your theory is that Collin's teammates still managed to finish above him in RPM, and they dealt with the same circumstances he did.

But there's lots of ways to look at this (maybe you would like to suggest your own measure?)

Like for instance, the Cavs were 7.9 points better with Collin off the floor than on as a rook, 2.1 better with Darius off as a rook, and 5.6 better with Okoro off.

Collin's negative impact was the worst of the 3, but they all had/are having a negative impact on the Cavs.


But yeah, whatever ... go ahead and write him off based on his rookie season.

I have said it before I think RPM is great on a good team to evaluate D sizes among seasoned vets
and is useless for rookies and other developing players and is a poor measure of individual achievement and or development success or failure
and certainly not a stat that says if a player has been good or bad , just if they could be a factor
in their youth surrounded by better players and in that case Sexton sucked but we both know he was far better
individually as a rookie than either of the following two lottery picks were.

[JonFromVA]

what was your buddies RPM last season?
I get what you are saying but individual stats say Sexton was nowhere near that bad of a player. Nothing about his game suggested anything was close to as disappointing as DG or Okoro but playing with disgruntled vets in a season after a long playoff run also did not help Sexton on the team oriented stat game like RPM or any other rating that always factors in more than the player themselves

The hole in your theory is that Collin's teammates still managed to finish above him in RPM, and they dealt with the same circumstances he did.

But there's lots of ways to look at this (maybe you would like to suggest your own measure?)

Like for instance, the Cavs were 7.9 points better with Collin off the floor than on as a rook, 2.1 better with Darius off as a rook, and 5.6 better with Okoro off.

Collin's negative impact was the worst of the 3, but they all had/are having a negative impact on the Cavs.


But yeah, whatever ... go ahead and write him off based on his rookie season.

I have said it before I think RPM is great on a good team to evaluate D sizes among seasoned vets
and is useless for rookies and other developing players and is a poor measure of individual achievement and or development success or failure
and certainly not a stat that says if a player has been good or bad , just if they could be a factor
in their youth surrounded by better players and in that case Sexton sucked but we both know he was far better
individually as a rookie than either of the following two lottery picks were.

By what measure?

[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

As a fan, I find this to be ridiculous. Kevin Love has played two games in a calendar year and unresolved calf strain is the most detail we've gotten. I sure hope the Cavs are being proactive in terms of encouraging Kevin to follow up with medical professionals in effort to obtain some more clarity.

Like, Kevin Love to Have Surgery, after missing the entirety of this season, is not a headline I want to read this summer. If that's where this ends up, pull the trigger on an involuntary medical retirement and make Love get on the court for another team for the requisite number of games the following year.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Delly's back on thursday?

[Stillwater]

The hole in your theory is that Collin's teammates still managed to finish above him in RPM, and they dealt with the same circumstances he did.

But there's lots of ways to look at this (maybe you would like to suggest your own measure?)

Like for instance, the Cavs were 7.9 points better with Collin off the floor than on as a rook, 2.1 better with Darius off as a rook, and 5.6 better with Okoro off.

Collin's negative impact was the worst of the 3, but they all had/are having a negative impact on the Cavs.


But yeah, whatever ... go ahead and write him off based on his rookie season.

I have said it before I think RPM is great on a good team to evaluate D sizes among seasoned vets
and is useless for rookies and other developing players and is a poor measure of individual achievement and or development success or failure
and certainly not a stat that says if a player has been good or bad , just if they could be a factor
in their youth surrounded by better players and in that case Sexton sucked but we both know he was far better
individually as a rookie than either of the following two lottery picks were.

By what measure?

SHAQUILLE
HARRISON
27th in league in 19-20 season using your RPM and now waived by Utah...
prime example of useless stat for comparing players

[jbk1234]

I have said it before I think RPM is great on a good team to evaluate D sizes among seasoned vets
and is useless for rookies and other developing players and is a poor measure of individual achievement and or development success or failure
and certainly not a stat that says if a player has been good or bad , just if they could be a factor
in their youth surrounded by better players and in that case Sexton sucked but we both know he was far better
individually as a rookie than either of the following two lottery picks were.

By what measure?

SHAQUILLE
HARRISON
27th in league in 19-20 season using your RPM and now waived by Utah...
prime example of useless stat for comparing players

Shaq is a good defender though and Jazz fans were upset when he was let go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[JonFromVA]

I have said it before I think RPM is great on a good team to evaluate D sizes among seasoned vets
and is useless for rookies and other developing players and is a poor measure of individual achievement and or development success or failure
and certainly not a stat that says if a player has been good or bad , just if they could be a factor
in their youth surrounded by better players and in that case Sexton sucked but we both know he was far better
individually as a rookie than either of the following two lottery picks were.

By what measure?

SHAQUILLE
HARRISON
27th in league in 19-20 season using your RPM and now waived by Utah...
prime example of useless stat for comparing players

Not what I meant ... you don't need to pick apart RPM because you said there wasn't a measure which could show that Collin was the worst starter in the league as a rookie, and RPM is surely a measure.

But I'm flexible ... if you don't like RPM, then what measure do you like?

Or maybe you meant to say that there was no measure you respected that shows Collin was the worst starter ...

[Stillwater]

By what measure?

SHAQUILLE
HARRISON
27th in league in 19-20 season using your RPM and now waived by Utah...
prime example of useless stat for comparing players

Not what I meant ... you don't need to pick apart RPM because you said there wasn't a measure which could show that Collin was the worst starter in the league as a rookie, and RPM is surely a measure.

But I'm flexible ... if you don't like RPM, then what measure do you like?

Or maybe you meant to say that there was no measure you respected that shows Collin was the worst starter ...

Even if i were to agree Sexton was no better his rookie season which would be a lie since he came into the league not known for his shooting yet continued to silence the critics . Neither of dg and esp Okoro have a silencer gene

[JonFromVA]

SHAQUILLE
HARRISON
27th in league in 19-20 season using your RPM and now waived by Utah...
prime example of useless stat for comparing players

Not what I meant ... you don't need to pick apart RPM because you said there wasn't a measure which could show that Collin was the worst starter in the league as a rookie, and RPM is surely a measure.

But I'm flexible ... if you don't like RPM, then what measure do you like?

Or maybe you meant to say that there was no measure you respected that shows Collin was the worst starter ...

Even if i were to agree Sexton was no better his rookie season which would be a lie since he came into the league not known for his shooting yet continued to silence the critics . Neither of dg and esp Okoro have a silencer gene

Few players are wired the way Collin is, but that doesn't mean they won't continue to work on their game and improve.

[Stillwater]

Not what I meant ... you don't need to pick apart RPM because you said there wasn't a measure which could show that Collin was the worst starter in the league as a rookie, and RPM is surely a measure.

But I'm flexible ... if you don't like RPM, then what measure do you like?

Or maybe you meant to say that there was no measure you respected that shows Collin was the worst starter ...

Even if i were to agree Sexton was no better his rookie season which would be a lie since he came into the league not known for his shooting yet continued to silence the critics . Neither of dg and esp Okoro have a silencer gene

Few players are wired the way Collin is, but that doesn't mean they won't continue to work on their game and improve.

ok how much time and $ is it worth for this org to continue down this path though? I mean it is one thing to miss on drafted players it's another to have all your confidence based on hope that not just a few things will improve in time but that a laundry list will...
There is nothing more to say each one if these players needs to step up in different ways a lot faster than they are or they are going to get shopped or dumped the only question is does this org have the patience you seem to have or are they growing tired of the struggle as I am.