Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Joe Johnson workout, pg 97

[slos]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

- At the moment he can get a 4y/135mil extension. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he can be offered 5mil per year on top of that in bonuses. If that's true, it can go up to 4y/155mil for Jrue.

- The max he can get in FA from some other team with his 10+ years of experience is 4y/169mil.

- The max he can get from Milwaukee in the summer is 5y/228mil (which of course is insane).

Honestly I can't understand why Bucks haven't already finished this job. Is Jrue waiting to force Bucks pay him 170 mil? That's $39,344,970 in Year 1, which is exactly the same with Giannis' 1st supermax year. I just hope Jrue is talked into a discount and get something closer to Middleton's 35,5 mil. That's what he can have with that extension. With very likely bonuses it will be 30 + 5 mil in Year 1. Sign the **** papers.

[ShootingtheJ]

Returning to some of the earlier discussion, there's also no compelling reason to convert Diakite since essentially you'd just be using a roster spot and taking a cap hit for a guy who a) you already have b) doesn't count against the cap currently and c) would only be a RFA this summer anyway. Two-ways being playoff eligible this year really reduces the incentive to convert them, so the only rationale I can think of would be if you expected some other team to pursue him as an RFA this summer and think he'd accept a "two year" minimum deal through next season right now (in which case you are just kicking the can down the road a year). Given Diakite's age and the fact that he probably won't play much the rest of the year, I doubt there would be a real market for him as an RFA so hopefully you could just get him on a 2-year minimum deal in the summer.

I usually agree, but it wouldn't take much for him to get a little more than the minimum. If PJ stays hurt and Brook continues to, um, "labor" on defense (that's putting it gently), then Diakite might play. And aren't the Bucks severely restricted in what offers they can match for Merrill, Nwora, and Diakite because of their cap situation? Even though I generally think the Diakite hype is completely overblown, I like him and would feel pretty good about locking him up now. Assuming Jrue's unknown incentives aren't a cap issue, I am pretty confident they can fit 3 guys under the tax threshold if Diakite is one of them and they time it right.

The Arenas rule prohibits teams from making an offer we can't match. So any offer would be palatable for 2 years. However, unlike other contracts, an Arenas rule contract can explode in the 3rd year.

[coolhandluke121]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

- At the moment he can get a 4y/135mil extension. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he can be offered 5mil per year on top of that in bonuses. If that's true, it can go up to 4y/155mil for Jrue.

- The max he can get in FA from some other team with his 10+ years of experience is 4y/169mil.

- The max he can get from Milwaukee in the summer is 5y/228mil (which of course is insane).

Honestly I can't understand why Bucks haven't already finished this job. Is Jrue waiting to force Bucks pay him 170 mil? That's $39,344,970 in Year 1, which is exactly the same with Giannis' 1st supermax year. I just hope Jrue is talked into a discount and get something closer to Middleton's 35,5 mil. That's what he can have with that extension. With very likely bonuses it will be 30 + 5 mil in Year 1. Sign the **** papers.

My fear all along is that Jrue is waiting so he can get more in the summer. I have totally accepted the open market max contract as part of the cost of doing business, but I will be extremely disappointed if he pressures the Bucks to give him more than any other team can give him. I would say it was time to panic when the option to extend became available and it didn't happen within a week or two because I think it should be relatively simple: the Bucks offer the most they can and he accepts.

Where are you seeing that they can offer less now than other teams can offer in the summer? I'm not saying you're wrong; I've just never seen that before. I don't see what the restriction would be, other than the fact that he technically still has an option year. Wouldn't he be tearing up that option year to sign an extension anyway? Why couldn't they give him a full max deal now?

You can't add incentives to max deals, can you? That seems wrong.

[LuessiT]

Returning to some of the earlier discussion, there's also no compelling reason to convert Diakite since essentially you'd just be using a roster spot and taking a cap hit for a guy who a) you already have b) doesn't count against the cap currently and c) would only be a RFA this summer anyway. Two-ways being playoff eligible this year really reduces the incentive to convert them, so the only rationale I can think of would be if you expected some other team to pursue him as an RFA this summer and think he'd accept a "two year" minimum deal through next season right now (in which case you are just kicking the can down the road a year). Given Diakite's age and the fact that he probably won't play much the rest of the year, I doubt there would be a real market for him as an RFA so hopefully you could just get him on a 2-year minimum deal in the summer.

I usually agree, but it wouldn't take much for him to get a little more than the minimum. If PJ stays hurt and Brook continues to, um, "labor" on defense (that's putting it gently), then Diakite might play. And aren't the Bucks severely restricted in what offers they can match for Merrill, Nwora, and Diakite because of their cap situation? Even though I generally think the Diakite hype is completely overblown, I like him and would feel pretty good about locking him up now. Assuming Jrue's unknown incentives aren't a cap issue, I am pretty confident they can fit 3 guys under the tax threshold if Diakite is one of them and they time it right.

The Arenas rule prohibits teams from making an offer we can't match. So any offer would be palatable for 2 years. However, unlike other contracts, an Arenas rule contract can explode in the 3rd year.

No, the Arenas rule prohibits teams from offering more than the MLE for the first 2 years. Teams could offer 4y/20m contracts just fine.

[LuessiT]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

- At the moment he can get a 4y/135mil extension. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he can be offered 5mil per year on top of that in bonuses. If that's true, it can go up to 4y/155mil for Jrue.

- The max he can get in FA from some other team with his 10+ years of experience is 4y/169mil.

- The max he can get from Milwaukee in the summer is 5y/228mil (which of course is insane).

Honestly I can't understand why Bucks haven't already finished this job. Is Jrue waiting to force Bucks pay him 170 mil? That's $39,344,970 in Year 1, which is exactly the same with Giannis' 1st supermax year. I just hope Jrue is talked into a discount and get something closer to Middleton's 35,5 mil. That's what he can have with that extension. With very likely bonuses it will be 30 + 5 mil in Year 1. Sign the **** papers.

My fear all along is that Jrue is waiting so he can get more in the summer. I have totally accepted the open market max contract as part of the cost of doing business, but I will be extremely disappointed if he pressures the Bucks to give him more than any other team can give him. I would say it was time to panic when the option to extend became available and it didn't happen within a week or two because I think it should be relatively simple: the Bucks offer the most they can and he accepts.

Where are you seeing that they can offer less now than other teams can offer in the summer? I'm not saying you're wrong; I've just never seen that before. I don't see what the restriction would be, other than the fact that he technically still has an option year. Wouldn't he be tearing up that option year to sign an extension anyway? Why couldn't they give him a full max deal now?

You can't add incentives to max deals, can you? That seems wrong.

The maximum extension we can offer right now starts at 120% of his current salary iirc. So yes he can get bigger offers in FA.

[Matches Malone]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

If the Giannis situation has taught me anything, it's to not look into every little detail and worry about it. I still have faith they'll get a contract done. Maybe he's holding out for more money since he has to play AND coach the team.

[ShootingtheJ]

I usually agree, but it wouldn't take much for him to get a little more than the minimum. If PJ stays hurt and Brook continues to, um, "labor" on defense (that's putting it gently), then Diakite might play. And aren't the Bucks severely restricted in what offers they can match for Merrill, Nwora, and Diakite because of their cap situation? Even though I generally think the Diakite hype is completely overblown, I like him and would feel pretty good about locking him up now. Assuming Jrue's unknown incentives aren't a cap issue, I am pretty confident they can fit 3 guys under the tax threshold if Diakite is one of them and they time it right.

The Arenas rule prohibits teams from making an offer we can't match. So any offer would be palatable for 2 years. However, unlike other contracts, an Arenas rule contract can explode in the 3rd year.

No, the Arenas rule prohibits teams from offering more than the MLE for the first 2 years. Teams could offer 4y/20m contracts just fine.

It's less if we can't access the MLE, and the total value can be way more than 4y/20 million.

[LuessiT]

The Arenas rule prohibits teams from making an offer we can't match. So any offer would be palatable for 2 years. However, unlike other contracts, an Arenas rule contract can explode in the 3rd year.

No, the Arenas rule prohibits teams from offering more than the MLE for the first 2 years. Teams could offer 4y/20m contracts just fine.

It's less if we can't access the MLE, and the total value can be way more than 4y/20 million.

I read the provision recently for exactly that case and I'm pretty sure that line is not in there.
Like if we want to match we'd have to drop below the hard cap and use part of the MLE (which is not happening).

[emunney]

I usually agree, but it wouldn't take much for him to get a little more than the minimum. If PJ stays hurt and Brook continues to, um, "labor" on defense (that's putting it gently), then Diakite might play. And aren't the Bucks severely restricted in what offers they can match for Merrill, Nwora, and Diakite because of their cap situation? Even though I generally think the Diakite hype is completely overblown, I like him and would feel pretty good about locking him up now. Assuming Jrue's unknown incentives aren't a cap issue, I am pretty confident they can fit 3 guys under the tax threshold if Diakite is one of them and they time it right.

The Arenas rule prohibits teams from making an offer we can't match. So any offer would be palatable for 2 years. However, unlike other contracts, an Arenas rule contract can explode in the 3rd year.

No, the Arenas rule prohibits teams from offering more than the MLE for the first 2 years. Teams could offer 4y/20m contracts just fine.

Also taking advantage of the Arenas rule hard caps you.

[LuessiT]

I mean that's implied by using part of the MLE but yeah.

[raferfenix]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

If the Giannis situation has taught me anything, it's to not look into every little detail and worry about it. I still have faith they'll get a contract done. Maybe he's holding out for more money since he has to play AND coach the team.

I don't know. The Giannis situation taught me that the Bucks would trade just about all of our assets without a guarantee that Giannis would stay.

Voodoo remained resolutely confident throughout but all the reporting since sure makes it seem like Giannis legitimately wasn't decided (and the Bogdan mess certainly didn't help).

From that perspective, you'd think the Bucks would have already gotten a wink and a nod from Holiday's agent that he would extend her if we trade for him.

But maybe not. Jrue would easily be the top free agent available this offseason if he wants to go anywhere else.

[slos]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

If the Giannis situation has taught me anything, it's to not look into every little detail and worry about it. I still have faith they'll get a contract done. Maybe he's holding out for more money since he has to play AND coach the team.

I’m not worried about Jrue resigning. I’m sure Bucks will keep him. I’m worried about the price. Sure it’s not our money to pay. But if Jrue gets him bag full, there will be too little real money left to surround this Big 3 with adequate talent.

[ShootingtheJ]

No, the Arenas rule prohibits teams from offering more than the MLE for the first 2 years. Teams could offer 4y/20m contracts just fine.

It's less if we can't access the MLE, and the total value can be way more than 4y/20 million.

I read the provision recently for exactly that case and I'm pretty sure that line is not in there.
Like if we want to match we'd have to drop below the hard cap and use part of the MLE (which is not happening).

You are correct, and this is another reason not to sign Diakite now, as he'd be a RFA the same year as Nwora and Merrill, and that would put us in a pickle if all 3 are good.

[emunney]

Watch on YouTube

[raferfenix]

Is it time to panic about Jrue's extension or not? Here are some numbers about his situation.

- At the moment he can get a 4y/135mil extension. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he can be offered 5mil per year on top of that in bonuses. If that's true, it can go up to 4y/155mil for Jrue.

- The max he can get in FA from some other team with his 10+ years of experience is 4y/169mil.

- The max he can get from Milwaukee in the summer is 5y/228mil (which of course is insane).

Honestly I can't understand why Bucks haven't already finished this job. Is Jrue waiting to force Bucks pay him 170 mil? That's $39,344,970 in Year 1, which is exactly the same with Giannis' 1st supermax year. I just hope Jrue is talked into a discount and get something closer to Middleton's 35,5 mil. That's what he can have with that extension. With very likely bonuses it will be 30 + 5 mil in Year 1. Sign the **** papers.

If another team is willing and able to pay Jrue the $169 million that could explain the delay.

I hope Horst got an indication from Holiday's agent before the trade that he would sign an extension during the season even if it's a bit less than he could get on the open market as a free agent.

But we don't know that this happened.

[coolhandluke121]

The maximum extension we can offer right now starts at 120% of his current salary iirc. So yes he can get bigger offers in FA.

Oh, I thought that cap was just when you didn't have a guy's Bird Rights. That's actually good because it explains why he's waiting. Even if he wants to extend now, they might be negotiating incentives or something.

I can live with giving Jrue the open market max, but they better not have to give him more than any other team can pay him. Also, he's not like KD in the sense that he knows the max money will still be there this summer even if he gets hurt. At 31 in June, the security of an extension should be something he at least considers, even if it's not as lucrative. Heck, you could debate whether he even deserves the open market max this summer. I would say the max extension is pretty fair for him.

[PG Graveyard]

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Not a huge Jeff Teague fan but I don’t think DJ could do this in a game anymore.

[jschligs]

I literally have zero doubt in my mind that Jrue will sign. I see him as a loyal guy, and one who understands what we gave up to get him, and he seems to really get along with Khris and DDV from videos from practice and even timeouts.

[crowhead76]

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Is is just me or does it seem like the Bucks saw a different defensive intensity from the Grizzlies?

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[raferfenix]

I literally have zero doubt in my mind that Jrue will sign. I see him as a loyal guy, and one who understands what we gave up to get him, and he seems to really get along with Khris and DDV from videos from practice and even timeouts.

Appreciating the confidence.

If he doesn’t extend midseason maybe it’s just because the Bucks could / would pay more in the offseason.

That isn’t great either. But Jrue walking would be catastrophic.

Bucks just don’t have any negotiating leverage if other teams would offer Holiday max.